Mild 6.0L Build Suggestions?

[Matthew Jeschke]

Yup. That's mine. I have the 114 LSA. Didn't have a choice since the cam was offered to my by a friend for $100. I really like it for my purposes. Not too wild to sacrifice anything that I can tell and, through the idle tuning, was able to make it lope like a little bit larger cam. Haven't been back to the track yet to compare it to stock, though. As far as MPG, I get ~1-3 miles per gallon MORE than I did with AFM, depending on cruising speed. I average 20-22 on the highway at 65-70ish.

BUT, this is on a 5.3. More cubes would need slightly more cam to achieve the same results. Look at it like this- a slightly rowdy cam in a 5.3 would be more tame in a 6.0 or larger. A rowdy cam in a 6.0 or larger would be extra rowdy in a 5.3 or smaller.

darn that is awesome for gas mileage!

I would buy the cam immediately haha, just need to figure out whatis equivalent for 6.0. Probably i just call up TSP.

Did you get a bit more low end power? How was it in power department?

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[iamdub]

darn that is awesome for gas mileage!

I would buy the cam immediately haha, just need to figure out whatis equivalent for 6.0. Probably i just call up TSP.

Did you get a bit more low end power? How was it in power department?

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I'm also lowered, so I have a bit of aerodynamic advantage. Although some of this may be negated by the 285mm-wide tires and 22s I'm running.

Definitely call TSP but don't forget about Vinci. I feel I've gained power everywhere and especially in the midrange and upper-end, but the torque converter kinda hides the low-end. When easing into it, as with normal driving, it feels like it revs but doesn't wanna move as soon. This is a characteristic of a looser converter. When hammering it from a dig, it jumps to it. It'd jump a lot harder if I didn't still have so much Torque Management holding it back. I have to assume that the trans has 200K miles on it since I bought my Tahoe with 146K and I don't see any evidence or reason for it to have ever been replaced. Regardless, it's still just a stock 4L60E (other than the Corvette and Sonnax servos). For this, I had the tuner leave a safe amount of TM in it cuz I'm not interested in investing in a built trans at the moment.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

What is TM in the transmission? I will have to do that as well. I have 240k on my oeometer. assuming transmission may have just as much.

I may have to throw new servos on mine until I can build the 4l60e sitting in corner of my garage.

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[wjburken]

What is TM in the transmission?

Torque Management.

https://www.ls2.com/forums/showthre...-Explained?s=9122cd7ad3d69b8ae63e7dba40b8094a

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Studying it now pretty seeet I didnt know the computer pulls timing during gear shift. I may need to open another thread for tuning.

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[Dantheman1540]

Managed to get a good long highway run without a trailer to give you an estimate on MPG. Went to Cleetus and Cars in Bradenton and held 70-75 the entire time, with minimal to no traffic and 93oct which is all it ever gets. I used to be able to manage 18+ on the highway with the smaller cam do that's definitely something to consider.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

That is awesome. I need to figure out valve springs and pushrods.

I see PAC springs mentioned a lot. I also see ppl talk about LS6 springs. However, the LS6 springs don't have much travel. They bind on the heads at 0.550" maybe thats just rt? i dont think i would get a cam bigger than that...

pushrods, not sure. stock length is 7.4". ppl say to check with the length... but truth is even if length is off, how do i adjust? I am using stock rocker arms.

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[iamdub]

That is awesome. I need to figure out valve springs and pushrods.

I see PAC springs mentioned a lot. I also see ppl talk about LS6 springs. However, the LS6 springs don't have much travel. They bind on the heads at 0.550" maybe thats just rt? i dont think i would get a cam bigger than that...

pushrods, not sure. stock length is 7.4". ppl say to check with the length... but truth is even if length is off, how do i adjust? I am using stock rocker arms.

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LS6 springs should go to .600". Buuuuut, supposedly, there are two styles of them. The older "yellow" springs are the "good/better" ones and the blue ones are the "newer/not as good" one. I don't know if there's any truth to any of this. I had my head guy compress and measure the yellow striped LS6 springs (from a Z06) I had and he said they were good to .600".

Stock push rod length is 7.380". You don't adjust length, you buy whatever length is appropriate for your setup. They come in standard .025" increments, but you can have some custom-made. This is not necessary with the GM hydraulic lifters that have a fairly wide preload range. Best bet is to invest $25 in a push rod checker tool. But, with minimal changes (cam only- no head shaving or thinner gaskets, etc.), you can go with whatever is recommended by your cam supplier, which is almost always standard 7.4" rods if not stock rods. Most common aftermarket cams have a .050" smaller base circle (.025" radius), so the slightly-longer-than-stock 7.4" rods are appropriate with a .005" discrepancy that the lifters or anything else will never see.

Even if stock length rods are fine, I still prefer to use larger diameter chromoly rods. Stock rods are marginal at best and are widely known to deflect (bend). I'm running 7.350" 3/8" (may actually be 11/32"?) diameter one-piece rods.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

That is good to know about the LS6 springs. I think my biggest fear is a "broken spring" for this reason I keep gravitating towards double springs. However, the double springs are intended for higher pressures with shorter valves. So I cannot find any moderate pressure / double valve springs.

I put in really thick pushrods on my LT1 build. However, I have this crazy thought... Probably is unwarranted / wrong thinking. If I had issue with piston to valve, I'd like the pushrod to break first. I actually built my LT1 because the timing gear sheered off and all the valves hit pistons. I was doing a massive burnout haha 4500 RPM sideways, smoke trailing behind, at 40 MPH. Crazy teenagers haha!

I'm trying to figure out... I'm not 100% sure but I wonder if the lifters I bought require a preload. I bought these Johnson 2116LSR drop in lifters HERE

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Current cam list. I will try and just update this post as I go on.

Goal - Over landing slow speeds long distances over rough terrain / forest service roads, 5000+ mile road trips, towing C5 corvette to races. Hope to sacrifice no fun up top, but get good MPG and grunt down low. 6.0L in 2001 Tahoe w/ stock wheels and 3.73 gears.

Helpful websites

CONTENDER

• Comp Cams 54-414-11
  SPEC I/E: 216/220 @ 050; LSA 114; 525/532 w/ 1.7 factory rockers
  Reviewed? | Manufacturer Page HERE
  
  Spoke with comp cams representative. He said for a 6.0L this would be about the best cam to tow with and still have fun when not towing. He also said with tuning higher MPG could be had. My second question to him was about the tri-power (lower lift) cams. He said they'd just give power down low and sacrifice up high. Didn't comment much on XLR CC style steep ramp angles affecting valve train life. Kind of dodged the question.

STILL RESEARCHING

• Brian Tooley Torque Truck Cam 30202111R1
  Cannot find review I watched was by Holdener | Manufacturer Page / Sales Page HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, no loss down low gain up high
  Cons: mild gains
  
  
• Texas Speed Peformance TSP Stage 2 #25-TSPLL212218 LSA 114
  SPEC I/E: 212/218 @ 050; LSA 114; 550/550 W/ factory rockers?
  Review ? | Manufacturer Page HERE
  
  
• Vinci Custom Camshafts website is a PITA haha trying to figure out what they are selling but might be a top contender as they do custom. I sent them a message.
  
  
• Summit LS Pro Camshafts HERE
  Inexpensive, but don't seem to be quite as aggressive (lower lift etc.) However, maybe one will help me meet my goals and be good enough. Summit rep actually recommended an XFI comp cam 54-401-11 HERE

REMOVED FROM LIST

• Comp Cams 54-469-11
  TOO BIG
  SPEC I/E: 231/247 @ 050; LSA 113; 617/624 w/ 1.7 factory rocker.
  Reviewed HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE
  Pros: Power everywhere big w/ big gains down low.
  Cons: Really expensive & designed for newer rectangular port heads
  
  
• Trick Flow TrackMax #30602003 aka sloppy stage 2 cam
  TOO MUCH OVERLAP OPERATING RANGE SPEC'D FOR 2500+ RPM
  SPEC I/E: 228/230 @ 050; LSA 112; 585/585 w/ 1.7 factory rockers
  Reviewed HERE & HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE | Sold HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, reviews claim power up across entire range
  Cons: Suggests 10.5:1 compression ratio my build is 10.0:1
  
  
• LS9 factory camshaft (likely just rumor)
  JUST A RUMOR, DOESN'T SEEM TO BE RIGHT
  SPEC I/E: 211/230 @ 050; LSA 122.5; 562/562 w/ 1.7 factory rocker?
  Cannot find any review | Sold HERE
  Pros: Very inexpensive. Told but cannot confirm, builds power everywhere?
  Cons: Cam sensor has to be relocated to timing cover.

Helpful websites

OVERLAP CALCULATOR

 

[Dantheman1540]

Current cam list. I will try and just update this post as I go on.

Goal - Over landing slow speeds long distances over rough terrain / forest service roads, 5000+ mile road trips, towing C5 corvette to races. Hope to sacrifice no fun up top, but get good MPG and grunt down low. 6.0L in 2001 Tahoe w/ stock wheels and 3.73 gears.

Helpful websites

CONTENDER

• Comp Cams 54-414-11
  SPEC I/E: 216/220 @ 050; LSA 114; 525/532 w/ 1.7 factory rockers
  Reviewed? | Manufacturer Page HERE
  
  Spoke with comp cams representative. He said for a 6.0L this would be about the best cam to tow with and still have fun when not towing. He also said with tuning higher MPG could be had. My second question to him was about the tri-power (lower lift) cams. He said they'd just give power down low and sacrifice up high. Didn't comment much on XLR CC style steep ramp angles affecting valve train lift. Kind of dodged the question.

STILL RESEARCHING

• Brian Tooley Torque Truck Cam 30202111R1
  Cannot find review I watched was by Holdener | Manufacturer Page / Sales Page HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, no loss down low gain up high
  Cons: mild gains
  
  
• Texas Speed Peformance TSP Stage 2 #25-TSPLL212218 LSA 114
  SPEC I/E: 212/218 @ 050; LSA 114; 550/550 W/ factory rockers?
  Review ? | Manufacturer Page HERE
  
  
• Vinci Custom Camshafts website is a PITA haha trying to figure out what they are selling but might be a top contender as they do custom. I sent them a message.
  
  
• Summit LS Pro Camshafts HERE
  Inexpensive, but don't seem to be quite as aggressive (lower lift etc.) However, maybe one will help me meet my goals and be good enough. Summit rep actually recommended an XFI comp cam 54-401-11 HERE

REMOVED FROM LIST

• Comp Cams 54-469-11
  TOO BIG
  SPEC I/E: 231/247 @ 050; LSA 113; 617/624 w/ 1.7 factory rocker.
  Reviewed HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE
  Pros: Power everywhere big w/ big gains down low.
  Cons: Really expensive & designed for newer rectangular port heads
  
  
• Trick Flow TrackMax #30602003 aka sloppy stage 2 cam
  TOO MUCH OVERLAP OPERATING RANGE SPEC'D FOR 2500+ RPM
  SPEC I/E: 228/230 @ 050; LSA 112; 585/585 w/ 1.7 factory rockers
  Reviewed HERE & HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE | Sold HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, reviews claim power up across entire range
  Cons: Suggests 10.5:1 compression ratio my build is 10.0:1
  
  
• LS9 factory camshaft (likely just rumor)
  JUST A RUMOR, DOESN'T SEEM TO BE RIGHT
  SPEC I/E: 211/230 @ 050; LSA 122.5; 562/562 w/ 1.7 factory rocker?
  Cannot find any review | Sold HERE
  Pros: Very inexpensive. Told but cannot confirm, builds power everywhere?
  Cons: Cam sensor has to be relocated to timing cover.

Helpful websites

OVERLAP CALCULATOR

Great info I've really been enjoying this thread and hope others will come to explore and learn as well.

I vote 100% for that top cam, if I'm not mistaken that was almost exactly my first recommendation but on a different LSA 110 vs 114. I think the 114lsa is going to help save some MPG with more negative overlap and not make it so choppy at idle. It may sound close to stock at idle, I think the low lift will keep it from stressing the valve train so much and make it safe to run behives. I also think the lower lift is smart because stock heads really don't benefit much with an increased lift. If I were to recam my Tahoe this would likely be top of the list for me as well.

Thats my 2 cents which is worth about that


P.S. glad you ditched the SS2 I don't think you would like it for this application.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I spoke with Roger Vinci. He recommended their MT 562 grind, "Towing & Performance Stg2". He said he thought it would work better than the Comp Cam 54-414-11 for my towing and slower off road driving. They sell a dual valve spring kit for it and would cut pushrods to the length I need. Not exactly cheap but a little more hands on and seems to be a pretty solid combo. $400 for cam $249.99 dual valve springs and retainers $139.99 for pushrods. Cam spec below:

Assuming speced intake / exhaust
Duration @ 050: 210/222
Lift 553/561
LSA 115
4A - not sure what 4a is a spec for? Think maybe something with ramp angle?

He says I could expect 65 to 75 + HP and Torque with that setup... And mentions operating range is 1800 to 6200 RPM.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Lifters are in. These make the factory ones look a bit chinsey. They are the 2116LSR johnsons. I opted for a link bar instead of the plastic trays and LS7 design. They made a cheaper non linkbar verson of these but I found a deal on these. they are lightly used so wish me luck :|

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[Matthew Jeschke]

I just got off the phone with Roger Vinci. I think custom ordering is really the only way to go. He was SUPER nice. Like talking to the owner of the business, literally, and has crazy trade knowledge. He's building me a cam based off one of his grinds to meet my specific needs. His springs are also custom made for the cam. Pretty bad ass. Another question nobody could quite answer for me is what metal is used. They still use US Steel / 5150. He said the lobes last MUCH longer than the other blanks companies use. I think they machine it all down from rifle stock. I could be a bit off as I didn't quite catch it all... But sounds like they cut NO corners and build a high quality piece.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Curious about harmonic balancer (if you call it that, I think this crank is internally balanced?). I recall my LT1 build, I did an electric water pump and lightweight crank pulley. I wonder if I shouldn't snag a different pulley... I do use a LOT of the power from the alternator and not sure how much if any it reduces performance of AC.

 

[iamdub]

Curious about harmonic balancer (if you call it that, I think this crank is internally balanced?). I recall my LT1 build, I did an electric water pump and lightweight crank pulley. I wonder if I shouldn't snag a different pulley... I do use a LOT of the power from the alternator and not sure how much if any it reduces performance of AC.

Engine is internally balanced, so the crank pulley can go on in any position. I replaced mine since the rubber was cracked and it may have been causing a weird vibe around 1700RPM. If you mean a smaller underdrive pulley- don't bother.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Yeah i got an aluminum underdrive pulley for my LT1 I built. I never recharged the AC on that car though.

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[iamdub]

I'd bet that your purpose and driving style for the Tahoe is vastly different than that for whatever the LT1 was/is in. For mostly low-speed off-roading, slowing everything down makes no sense.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

That makes since. The Z28 was for melting tires haha, awesome car. Sad I sold it.

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[Matthew Jeschke]

What wideband setup is best or at least reasonible to use. I know I want bosch 4.9 sensors as they don't require air calibration.

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