Mild 6.0L Build Suggestions?

[Matthew Jeschke]

I is a PITA but I use sanding diska from harbor freight on my drill for the fiest pass..

Then I switch to scotch bright like disks on my dremel going fro. 80 gritt to 400 gritt...

Then I switch to polishing compound.

It is hard to show on camera but there is still very light / rough surface. I don't think carbon can take hold of it...

Also there are a fee spots tools simple won't reach. like by lip of valve there and spark plug area.

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[Dantheman1540]

Not bad but, I want to see you get them mirror finish......






JK that would take forever, I assumed it would be difficult which is why I just sent a set to get CNC ported and polished. I'm just too lazy, I also remember reading somewhere that overly polished intake runners are actually a bad thing. But, since I have no source to site don't take it as fact.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Just curious--did you spray the chambers silver? To find spots you missed?

 

[fasteddy]

Hey!
Just checking in....
I love 6.0L builds on tahoes.....every tahoe should have one.
I've done two before and about to do another.
Could you summarize your build?
I think I gleened it out of the threads and it sounds like

6.0L build......
6.0L block? or did you bore the 5.3?
Stock crank
Stock rods
Custom cam (What are the specs?)
317 heads
What intake are you going to use? Stock 5.3?

Sounds like an escalade motor with a cam.

Better build that trans for added TQ .....Big Cooler-12" , and at least 5 pinion planetaries.

You have more patience than I to build your own.
I'm trying to decide between 6.0 +862s stock or GM performance LS376/450 with LS3 heads and a warranty.

 

[Dantheman1540]

Hey!
Just checking in....
I love 6.0L builds on tahoes.....every tahoe should have one.
I've done two before and about to do another.
Could you summarize your build?
I think I gleened it out of the threads and it sounds like

6.0L build......
6.0L block? or did you bore the 5.3?
Stock crank
Stock rods
Custom cam (What are the specs?)
317 heads
What intake are you going to use? Stock 5.3?

Sounds like an escalade motor with a cam.

Better build that trans for added TQ .....Big Cooler-12" , and at least 5 pinion planetaries.

You have more patience than I to build your own.
I'm trying to decide between 6.0 +862s stock or GM performance LS376/450 with LS3 heads and a warranty.

Do the crate motor and save yourself some headache!

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

@Dantheman1540 crate is probably cheaper

@fasteddy I'll list what I did:

5.3L will not bore to a 6.0L. Or so I was told by machinist. Mine had a hole in the crankcase so kind of a mute point for me.

I bought a remanufactured Iron 6.0 block, Gen III LS. Not sure what it came out of or if it matters much.

I reused the crank shaft from my 5.3L with the smaller reluctor wheel (less teeth) so I can keep my PCM too.

I got a set of remanufactured 5.3 / 6.0 LS full float rods, with new wrist pins, and new LQ9 Flat top pistons

I had it all balanced by machine shop... Some say you can use a 5.3L Crank with a 6.0L pistons... I don't believe that would work. I measured and was nearly 1KG heavier. They had to add weights to my crankshaft... the casting numbers between 5.3L and 6.0L cranks are same, but cannot figure out how the factory would account for 1KG of additional weight... Long story short you'll have to get balacned.

I had Roger Vinchi cut me a custom cam. Cams are very specific to what you want to do. It's easiest to just call him and he'll make you a cam for your application:

http://www.vincihiperformance.com

My cam is for low end torque. It's custom grind and same price as all the off the shelf cams. Hell of a deal if you ask me.

I'm using 317 heads despite advise otherwise. Just concerned about extra compression from 842 (5.3L heads). I don't always have access to premium fuel.

Be leery of modifying the oiling system, high volume pumps, etc. The cam oiling system is asymmetric. It creates a hydraulic wedge and can easily spin cam bearings (total loss for your engine). I just went for factory spec pressure on the pump. I didn't port it, or do any of that nonsense. If the factory pump got my old motor to 240k no problems, no sense in changing up the configuration.

Tuning, I'm watching Goat Rope Garage on Youtube. Then I bough a AFR wideband O2 sensor with latest sensors. The newer sensors don't require open air calibration so make sure you'll getting the newest ones.

MY MISTAKES

Cheaper to buy a rod and piston kit than rework factory pistons and rods. Then they should come with the pistons rings, rods, new bolts, etc. etc. etc. possibly even be better balanced than factory rods and stronger. Just make sure they are full float... Flat top are for higher compression and dish top style are for lower compression.

Pickup a cam, springs, and pushrods from Roger Vinchi and you'll be good.

Oh and I scored and got top shelf Johnson Lifters on the dirt cheap. A bit like hitting the lottery. The weak point in my opinion on these motors is the valve train. Most every mechanic, machine shop, engine builder, hates the GM style hydraulic lifters. They are junk, despite yes they did get my old motor to 240k miles.

https://www.johnsonlifters.com/Products/HydraulicRollerLifters/ST2116SBR.aspx

 

[fasteddy]

I always just buy a long block to spec
I don't have the tools or the skills to assemble an engine.
I like to bolt in and tune.
As an FYI, Engine Reman is in Glendale (not to far from you)
Stock rebuilt long block 6.0L is $2800 and they'll put any cam in it or any heads (5.3 or 6.0)
Good Deal...I've used them before.....and about to again.
GM perf LS376/450 is $4700 delivered and warrantied, but fuel system/intake needs to upgraded because of LS3 heads....but good deal.
But I can make 450 lbs of TQ with small heads and same fuel system.

On your tuning, just go HP tuners. You'll be able to download a stock 02 Escalade tune which will be very close since you're not looking for top end power.

5.3 block = 6.0 block just with smaller bore.
You can bore a 5.3 all the way to 6.2, but it gets kinda thin....but works fine NA.
I have a sleeved 5.3 in my 02 vette with LS7 heads and crank and that's a 434.

Have fun....keep us updated.

PS
Do yuo ever take your vette to gila bend and run the 1/2 mile? You're so close.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

would LOVE to do the 1/2 mile in the vette... I have done 1/4. Honestly it sucks at the 1/4 I slide half way down the track... but nearly broke into 12s with street tires at 2500ft. Missed 4th gear tho [emoji51]

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[Matthew Jeschke]

After my build is done I will be maybe 3 grand...

$900 rebuilt crankcase

$100 rods $170 pistons $40 pins $35 pin locks $50 bolts

$200 balancing

$900 camshaft, dual valve springs, and pusrods

$100 used 317 heads (machine work not done yet?)

$400 rering kit $60 main bearings

$60 oil pump

$60 timing chain and gears

$120 head bolts

$300 lifters

Rocker arm trunion bushing upgrade kit $150

I already had HP Tuner stuff for my vette and meraculously had credits left over for tahoe build.

I don't recall what the wideband cost me? $160? I am also detailing / touching up engine bay a bit while taken apart. And have an extra 4L60E to rebuild for behind the 6.0

Also selling some of the old 5.3L parts on ebay to offset the price. I only damaged cylinder 7 ans sigh blew a hole in side of crankcase by starter.

I would go with LS3 heads, seem to be the gold standard right now. I got my 317s from a guy upgrading to the LS3 heads.

NOTE TO SELF... NEVER ADD UP THE NUMBERS HAHA I HADNT COSIDERED WHAT I SPENT TILL NOW [emoji2962]

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[Matthew Jeschke]

Just curious--did you spray the chambers silver? To find spots you missed?

I should... I was thinking of that after the fact. I am basically looking to see where any trace of casting is left... Would have been smart to hit with a little paint before sanding.

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[Matthew Jeschke]

Not bad but, I want to see you get them mirror finish......






JK that would take forever, I assumed it would be difficult which is why I just sent a set to get CNC ported and polished. I'm just too lazy, I also remember reading somewhere that overly polished intake runners are actually a bad thing. But, since I have no source to site don't take it as fact.

Great point haha I like that mirror finish isnt ideal... I will take that as I am feeling lazier each day.

I am still going to have the machine shop port match the combustion chambers.

I don't want to spend big $$ though for port matching the runners tho.

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[fasteddy]

I would go with LS3 heads, seem to be the gold standard right now. I got my 317s from a guy upgrading to the LS3 heads.

Nah....you're going the right way for your requirements. Small 317 heads will make more TQ at low RPM with a small cam....like around .500 lift......dual springs are kinda overkill.
LS3 heads make less TQ at low RPM but ramp quickly after 3500 rpms.....but you need 60lbs of fuel pressure and are harder to tune....and suck more gas.

I like the small heads on a tahoe 6.0 build......Lots of TQ under 4000 rpms which is where my tahoe is 95% of the time.
I just prefer the 862 heads (unported) because you get more compression and smaller intake volume which means more power under 5000rpms.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Nice, I assumed smaller runners / lower flow heads were of benefit to lower end power but was unsure. Most info I find and ppl I talk to know how to build a hotrod motor. Very few know about low end power for a truck so good info has been hard to come by.

Roger sold me new dual valve springs for price of single ones. He has some awesome stuff and I think he customized the springs for my cam somehow.

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[1BADI5]

Nice, I assumed smaller runners / lower flow heads were of benefit to lower end power but was unsure. Most info I find and ppl I talk to know how to build a hotrod motor. Very few know about low end power for a truck so good info has been hard to come by.

Roger sold me new dual valve springs for price of single ones. He has some awesome stuff and I think he customized the springs for my cam somehow.

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No, longer runner = torque

For proof of concept, look at a Gen4 rec port truck intake compared to a LS3/L99 car intake. Then compare the torque numbers and where they fall on the graphs.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

No, longer runner = torque

For proof of concept, look at a Gen4 rec port truck intake compared to a LS3/L99 car intake. Then compare the torque numbers and where they fall on the graphs.

I presume, more specifically, the ratio of runner length to diameter?

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[fasteddy]

No, longer runner = torque

For proof of concept, look at a Gen4 rec port truck intake compared to a LS3/L99 car intake. Then compare the torque numbers and where they fall on the graphs.

I was referring to the heads, the 862 vs LS3......the volume of the intake runner of the head. Not the intake manifold.

200cc on the 862 vs 257cc on the LS3. Air travels faster through a smaller chamber, velocity. Better throttle response, more TQ at low RPMs.

Trust me, I've done it both ways.....spent 4X the money on Big heads, big valves and nothing but disappointment under 4K rpms.

If the application is a vehicle that will live from 4-6K, like a vette or race mobile then bigger is better. But on a heavy vehicle that lives under 5K I prefer unported cathedral heads.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

good advice. You are piecing together some thoughts I had had but couldn't find information on.

I finished polishing the combustion chambers... did the whole second head in one session.

It isnt mirror finish but knocked off all the high points and gave it a smooth finish.

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[Matthew Jeschke]

Ha, just read why mirror polishing is bad (except on exhuast)... The fuel doesn't atomize / mix with the air as well. It tends to stick to walls of combustion chamver and or intake runner walls if they are too smooth.

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[Matthew Jeschke]

Slowly but surely. Got the crank shaft in double checking machine work and fitment. Everything is to factory spec! Saving all my measurements as well. It's not too tricky although I had one thing that baffled me for a bit...

Crankshaft end play. Spec is 0.0015" minimum. I couldn't even fit that feeler gauge. I second guessed difficulty with this so I kept checking it as I did the 15 ft/lb pass on the main bolts, and didn't do the TTA pass. I took out the #3 main with thrust bearing.

I had put on a bunch of assembly lube. I put it on the sides of the thrust bearing too. This was preventing it from moving in the crankcase for the thrust test. I wiped off the excess lube, re torqued and everything was perfect!

I also had some issue sealing those M10 side bolts. I used high temp RTV spec'd for oil pan. I had to take them out and put them back in... I put a HEALTHY amount of RTV on back side / head of bolt. I finger tightened them with the socked such that I could see RTV come out all 360 degrees around the bolt head.

I'm now waiting for RTV to set up a bit before I do the 18 ft/lb torque pass on them. Otherwise this is REALLY simple.

 

[fasteddy]

Looking Good!
You should plan on a set of long tube headers and free flow exhaust (doesn't have to be loud).
That will help you with your plan to maximize TQ and fuel mileage.