Brake upgrade experts: questions

[NoNamesLeft]

2013 Tahoe on stock 20s needs brakes. I'm trying to understand the different front upgrade options and remember physics.

Caliper specifications according to the official GM part info on the rock auto website and some math, rotor weights from GM parts website.

Stock 2013 2 piston caliper total piston area 6.28 sq in. Rotor 12.99" od. 27 lbs.

2023 1500 4 piston caliper total piston area 12.69 sq in. Rotor 13.5" od. 29 lbs.

2021 PPV 6 piston caliper total piston area 11.61 sq in. Rotor 16.14" od. 36 lbs.

Edited the section out due to being wrong

The 4 piston calipers cost around the same as the 2 piston ones making it a no brainer upgrade as long as it a bolt on affair with no other expensive parts needed (like wheel spacers or rims).

The main questions for the brake experts are:

1. Do the 4 piston calipers have the same interference issues to the back face of the rim as the 6 piston calipers do?

2. Edited out since it doesn't apply.

3. I like the idea of a fixed caliper with pistons on both sides vs a sliding caliper which can get hung up. Are there disadvantages to the fixed caliper setup?

4. Considering the cost, is the improvement with the brembos even worth considering?

Please point out where I've gone wrong.

 

[Big Mama]

I’m not sure any of it is wrong. My question would be why you’re upgrading? Is it towing, spirited driving like @Doubeleive , or just bc why not?
As for clearance I’ll let someone else answer.

 

[strutaeng]

I did the 2019+ 4 piston caliper brake upgrade on my 99 Silverado. I'm running 2014-ish 18" GM wheels. Calipers were ground on the inside (like a chamfer) for clearance.

Another advantage of those calipers is that you can replace the pads w/o removing the calipers. Seems like a time-saver to me when doing that job.

Other than that I have no other input based on your newer truck.

 

[Doubeleive]

all I can tell you is IF the oem upgrade cost's you $850 or less (per axle) then go for it. If not then the Bear erradispeed kit is a larger rotor upgrade with a relocation bracket for the existing caliper. How the Bear kit calculates into how much more braking force I have no clue 2+2=5 all i can say is it works better than oem and the baer rotors are going to last you a really long time.
There is a rather long thread on the oem 2021+ upgrade process if you poke around the search function, it might be best to just read thru that thread I am sure it is full of pertinent info

 

[NoNamesLeft]

I’m not sure any of it is wrong. My question would be why you’re upgrading? Is it towing, spirited driving like @Doubeleive , or just bc why not?
As for clearance I’ll let someone else answer.

We bought the Tahoe a couple of years ago for family outings and to do some towing. The braking has always seemed lacking since we got it. The right side front is metal to metal on the inboard pad while the outboard pad still has plenty of friction material. The left front pads and rotor look barely worn. Weird that there was no pulling to one side. As usual, it was the floating caliper causing the problem. Here in the rust belt that is very common.

all I can tell you is IF the oem upgrade cost's you $850 or less (per axle) then go for it. If not then the Bear erradispeed kit is a larger rotor upgrade with a relocation bracket for the existing caliper. How the Bear kit calculates into how much more braking force I have no clue 2+2=5 all i can say is it works better than oem and the baer rotors are going to last you a really long time.
There is a rather long thread on the oem 2021+ upgrade process if you poke around the search function, it might be best to just read thru that thread I am sure it is full of pertinent info

Search lol. I've read so many of the different brake threads it starts getting confusing what was speculation and what is fact. Cost for the 2021 stuff from rockauto: new GM calipers, rotors, banjo bolts, copper washers and aftermarket pads comes out to $612 before the discount. $41 shipping. Replacing the stock 2 piston calipers, rotors and pads would cost $455.
I figured since it needs brakes anyway why not upgrade to fixed calipers and hopefully get some better performance as well? I'm toying with the Camaro 4 piston calipers for the rear to keep things balanced. We'll see how it goes. Parts arrived today. Thanks for the replies!

 

[mikez71]

Planning the same upgrade.
Keep us posted!

 

[swathdiver]

2013 Tahoe on stock 20s needs brakes. I'm trying to understand the different front upgrade options and remember physics.

There's about a 5 foot improvement from 60 to 0 and about 8 feet improvement from 70 to 0 in stopping distance between the GMT900 Tahoe and the T1 Tahoe.

One can ruin stopping distances with aftermarket wheels and tires and aftermarket brake pads.

We see braking complaints all the time on these forums, most who complain are using aftermarket components and are comparing worn out brakes to brand new brakes.

Most cell phones have the hardware to run 60 mph to 0 or 70 mph to 0 mph braking tests with an appropriate app. A man ought to know his limitations!

 

[swathdiver]

The braking has always seemed lacking since we got it. The right side front is metal to metal on the inboard pad while the outboard pad still has plenty of friction material. The left front pads and rotor look barely worn. Weird that there was no pulling to one side. As usual, it was the floating caliper causing the problem.

Could it be that the lack of maintenance was the problem and not the design itself?

They are easily inspected and serviced every 5K miles or so at each tire rotation. Takes just a moment to clean the slides and pins and lubricate if necessary.

 

[Foggy]

We bought the Tahoe a couple of years ago for family outings and to do some towing. The braking has always seemed lacking since we got it. The right side front is metal to metal on the inboard pad while the outboard pad still has plenty of friction material. The left front pads and rotor look barely worn. Weird that there was no pulling to one side. As usual, it was the floating caliper causing the problem. Here in the rust belt that is very common.


Search lol. I've read so many of the different brake threads it starts getting confusing what was speculation and what is fact. Cost for the 2021 stuff from rockauto: new GM calipers, rotors, banjo bolts, copper washers and aftermarket pads comes out to $612 before the discount. $41 shipping. Replacing the stock 2 piston calipers, rotors and pads would cost $455.
I figured since it needs brakes anyway why not upgrade to fixed calipers and hopefully get some better performance as well? I'm toying with the Camaro 4 piston calipers for the rear to keep things balanced. We'll see how it goes. Parts arrived today. Thanks for the replies!

You probably have never felt the stock braking system performing like it was intended
with the pads/rotors NOT wearing correctly. Someone prob did a pad slap.. Your
slider pins in the caliper bracket are seized up for sure...
I just couldn't swallow the price of upgrading the whole system a few years ago..
So I put on the Power Stop Upgraded Tow pads and rotors.. Only a bit more $$
than stock replacement stuff. I DID notice a difference for sure. And they are holding up
4 years later.
I almost have to assume that you'll need new slider brackets which are easily avail
at your local parts store. That way you can get good pricing off Summit or RA.
I wouldn't trust amazon for "real genuine" parts anymore.
I've looked at the ACDelco line of performance rotors and pad too. They look
to be quality items as well

 

[mikez71]

upsides: No slider pin maintenance, easier pad replacement, little bigger diameter rotor, more clamping force, better braking distances!

downsides: some wheels don't fit, need extra washers...

I'm not sure why you guys are rooting for slider pins.. ?

 

[swathdiver]

upsides: No slider pin maintenance, easier pad replacement, little bigger diameter rotor, more clamping force, better braking distances!

downsides: some wheels don't fit, need extra washers...

I'm not sure why you guys are rooting for slider pins.. ?

Same or similar cost for the pads, rotors, brake lines and calipers?

How about the rears? Do the newer brakes work with our parking brake system?

 

[NoNamesLeft]

All good points! I checked the calipers for free movement when we got the Tahoe and all the wheels had to come off to clean the bead seats (common corrosion issue around here causing very slow air loss). The Harbor Freight tire changer worked like a champ on the 20’s, though it does need some beefing up.

It seems 50/50 that the caliper slides hang or the pistons bind in the bores. I’ve been working on my cars too long (pushing 5 decades now) and am tired of floating caliper stuck slides, corroded pins, swollen ears (Dodge problem) and the other compromises they have because they are cheaper to manufacture. I am not pulling calipers every 5,000 miles to check the slides. Time to give fixed calipers a go.

Swathdriver, you can relax. I did screw up with the forces. A 4 piston fixed caliper has the same clamping force as a as a 2 piston floating caliper assuming the pistons are the same diameter. So my previous thoughts of the 4 piston caliper having twice the clamping force is wrong. That means, on paper anyway, the 2021 4 piston calipers will have just a tad more force for a given line pressure than the stock 2013 2 piston floating calipers. The 2021 rotor being a ½” larger diameter may make a slight improvement too. The marginal improvement means there is no concern over messing up the front to rear braking balance.

As for price I'll gladly pay $157 more to be done with floating caliper issues. The only potential negative I could find for fixed calipers is pad knock back, which would indicate a problem with the rotor or wheel bearing.

As an interesting aside, it shows that the PPV 6 piston stopping power is from the larger rotor (ie better leverage) not the six piston caliper which has the least clamping force of the three calipers. What Doubeleive mentioned with the larger Bear rotor for better stopping power makes total sense.

 

[mikez71]

How about the rears? Do the newer brakes work with our parking brake system?

Do we need rears? Not being sarcastic...

Too much rear brakes maybe worry me a little.

Even a severe mismatch in brake bias, ultimately would be handled by the abs system I think?

 

[strutaeng]

Did anyone say Corvette C7 rear brake upgrade?! LOL

My buddy told me there's such a thing. I didn't know.

There's a company that makes adapters. I'm not sure on the parking brake, how or if that works.

GM Truck/SUV 4 Piston C7 Rear Big Brake Bracket Kit

This big brake bracket kit allows you to upgrade the rear brakes on your 99-18 Silverado, Tahoe, Escalade, Suburban, Tahoe, Sierra, etc. to C7 Corvette or 6th Gen Camaro rear 4 piston Brembo calipers.

ctsvbrakeswap.com

 

[mikez71]

Same or similar cost for the pads, rotors, brake lines and calipers?

2012 tahoe
caliper(1) $167
rotor(1) $110
pads(2) $105
hose(1) $17

2023 silverado
cal $132
rot $105
pad $107
hos $30

Looks like you could save $50 going with newer brakes, but I did not include banjo bolts, so maybe the same cost..

Rears on newer trucks still use slider pins, and still single pot.
I wonder if the parking brake is stronger...

Was thinking about recycler parts myself as they're only 1 or 2 years old...

 

[NoNamesLeft]

Yes the rear works with the parking brake since the original rotor with the drum inside the hat is used. https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/are-the-dual-piston-rear-calipers-noticeably-better.153526/

 

[strutaeng]

Yes the rear works with the parking brake since the original rotor with the drum inside the hat is used. https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/are-the-dual-piston-rear-calipers-noticeably-better.153526/

Sweet! I couldn't remember... Thanks for the information.

 

[fozzi58]

My input is probably outside you budget but I put a set of Wilwood TX6R's on the front over 5 years ago and haven't looked back. Haven't even changed the pads yet and they have 60k miles on them.

Stopping power was night and day difference. A little cheaper than the Brembo's also, but still not for the faint of heart (wallet).

Wilwood says minimum 20" wheel. I did have a set of Caddy "turbo fans" OEM wheels on for a short while and they never touched the caliper.

 

[Jon Pousette-Dart]

2013 Tahoe on stock 20s needs brakes. I'm trying to understand the different front upgrade options and remember physics.

Caliper specifications according to the official GM part info on the rock auto website and some math, rotor weights from GM parts website.

Stock 2013 2 piston caliper total piston area 6.28 sq in. Rotor 12.99" od. 27 lbs.

2023 1500 4 piston caliper total piston area 12.69 sq in. Rotor 13.5" od. 29 lbs.

2021 PPV 6 piston caliper total piston area 11.61 sq in. Rotor 16.14" od. 36 lbs.

Edited the section out due to being wrong

The 4 piston calipers cost around the same as the 2 piston ones making it a no brainer upgrade as long as it a bolt on affair with no other expensive parts needed (like wheel spacers or rims).

The main questions for the brake experts are:

1. Do the 4 piston calipers have the same interference issues to the back face of the rim as the 6 piston calipers do?

2. Edited out since it doesn't apply.

3. I like the idea of a fixed caliper with pistons on both sides vs a sliding caliper which can get hung up. Are there disadvantages to the fixed caliper setup?

4. Considering the cost, is the improvement with the brembos even worth considering?

Please point out where I've gone wrong.

I have 2018 with Brembos in front, and they are a fortune to keep up. I've replaced both rotors and pads twice at 55k.

 

[NoNamesLeft]

Well stock 5 spoke 20” rims do not clear. They hit the caliper on the hub part of the rim. The back of the spokes might hit if the hub part didn’t hit first. Pictures below.