Now What?!?!

[swathdiver]

A week or two ago, while we were removing the wheel well liners, we noticed that the #4 spark plug was loose. The wire and shield were bouncing around and exhaust gases were coming out from around the plug. No misfires or CELs.

A few days later I inspected the plug, screwed it back in and put dielectric grease on the plug tip and wire that connects to the coil. All was good when we fired the engine.

On Saturday my daughters changed the oil and filter. Well, they drained the oil on Saturday and put the new filter on about 1/2 full of oil and on Sunday morning filled the motor with oil. Oil level is good. The next day we fired the motor and it made a funny sound that I cannot remember anymore and was also smoking, like an exhaust leak around #2. This turned out to be spilled oil.

On Thursday night we fired the motor again, I was at the wheel and it took a moment for the oil pressure to come up. This usually happens when the truck sits for more than a week. AFTER the pressure came up, a ticking sound began on the right bank, around #4 or #6.

Tech-2 shows no misfires and turning off those injectors results in dropped rpms. Took her for a test drive and she runs normal and as before, even on the highway. Traffic did not allow me to go full throttle.

Today the motor started again quiet but seconds later the tick started on that side. When using the mechanics stethoscope, we hear it in the injectors, loudest on the right bank and at #4. The exhaust manifolds are quiet, intake is quiet, touching the valve cover bolts, you can hear it a little. It can barely be heard on the driver's side outside, but you can hear it good on the passenger side even walking towards the rear of the truck.

The motor is on E85 currently, 3/4 tank. Fuel Trims are great, better than normal and at or close to zero (LTFTs).

Any ideas?

A collapsed lifter with no misfires?

 

[iamdub]

A week or two ago, while we were removing the wheel well liners, we noticed that the #4 spark plug was loose. The wire and shield were bouncing around and exhaust gases were coming out from around the plug. No misfires or CELs.

A few days later I inspected the plug, screwed it back in and put dielectric grease on the plug tip and wire that connects to the coil. All was good when we fired the engine.

On Saturday my daughters changed the oil and filter. Well, they drained the oil on Saturday and put the new filter on about 1/2 full of oil and on Sunday morning filled the motor with oil. Oil level is good. The next day we fired the motor and it made a funny sound that I cannot remember anymore and was also smoking, like an exhaust leak around #2. This turned out to be spilled oil.

On Thursday night we fired the motor again, I was at the wheel and it took a moment for the oil pressure to come up. This usually happens when the truck sits for more than a week. AFTER the pressure came up, a ticking sound began on the right bank, around #4 or #6.

Tech-2 shows no misfires and turning off those injectors results in dropped rpms. Took her for a test drive and she runs normal and as before, even on the highway. Traffic did not allow me to go full throttle.

Today the motor started again quiet but seconds later the tick started on that side. When using the mechanics stethoscope, we hear it in the injectors, loudest on the right bank and at #4. The exhaust manifolds are quiet, intake is quiet, touching the valve cover bolts, you can hear it a little. It can barely be heard on the driver's side outside, but you can hear it good on the passenger side even walking towards the rear of the truck.

The motor is on E85 currently, 3/4 tank. Fuel Trims are great, better than normal and at or close to zero (LTFTs).

Any ideas?

A collapsed lifter with no misfires?

I forget- is your AFM disabled? I was gonna say to have someone stick their head out of the passenger window and listen while you drive to see if it changes as AFM engages and disengages. Loudest around #4, starts and stops with oil pressure... My guess is a funky AFM lifter.

 

[swathdiver]

I forget- is your AFM disabled? I was gonna say to have someone stick their head out of the passenger window and listen while you drive to see if it changes as AFM engages and disengages. Loudest around #4, starts and stops with oil pressure... My guess is a funky AFM lifter.

AFM disabled since 2017. Noise happens faster as rpms go up. If it is a lifter Chris, why no CELs or misfires?

 

[OR VietVet]

The lifter can be noisy enough to hear before it gets bad enough to cause a misfire. Does the noise ever go away? Does it increase with more rpm? Is it louder with higher rpm?

 

[swathdiver]

The lifter can be noisy enough to hear before it gets bad enough to cause a misfire. Does the noise ever go away? Does it increase with more rpm? Is it louder with higher rpm?

Thanks Ron. So far the noise has not gone away. It does increase with RPM but does not get louder. My ears seem to make me think it gets quieter the higher the rpms but my kids disagree with me.

 

[OR VietVet]

I would just keep an eye/ear on it for now and see what happens on next oil change, unless of course the noise gets worse. Sounds like a lifter starting to give you problems.

I am curious about something though. Why the wait times on the oil change?

 

[swathdiver]

I would just keep an eye/ear on it for now and see what happens on next oil change, unless of course the noise gets worse. Sounds like a lifter starting to give you problems.

I am curious about something though. Why the wait times on the oil change?

Well, my back was shot by that time and the kids were helping me. As the sun goes down, we had artificial light but the skeeters were coming out and chewing us up so we called it quits and went inside. Other times it was time to play volleyball or go out to dinner with their friends, etc. Poor old Dad has to work around their social and work schedules you know! LOL

Also, we replaced the upper and lower control arms, rebuilt the struts with all new components save for the strut mounts, changed the driver's side engine mount, replaced the wheel well liners, front bumper and headlamps and fog lamps with all new OE and had the dealer paint the new bumper. It was an ambitious project with a few more things to do yet and now the motor issue.

My wife is upset because she scheduled a vacation, took time off from work and now we can't go anywhere until I determine if she's safe to run as is or not. We also have to tighten the upper control arm nuts. I was able to re-use the plastic inserts for the alignment cams and replaced the outer tie rods in exactly the same position they came out of so I think we'll skip the alignment for now. Haven't measured the tires but they look to be about 4/32nds tread depth at most, time for new ones in my book.

 

[wsteele]

I wish I could be of some help on your issue, but unfortunately, you probably have forgotten more about these trucks than I likely have time left to learn. By your description, it does sound like lifter noise.

 

[Bill 1960]

Rent a car and go on vacation? (If you can get one, I hear they’re in short supply).

Better a happy wife than not. Deal with the truck later.

 

[OR VietVet]

Rent a car and go on vacation? (If you can get one, I hear they’re in short supply).

Better a happy wife than not. Deal with the truck later.

Beat me to it. Rent a rig. Hell, rent a big ol' honking Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban.

Plus, I would not send the wife on a vaca with 4/32 tread depth. Unless your life insurance payments are up to date.

 

[swathdiver]

So frustrating! Just fired it up, no noise until I walked around to the front and then it started again.

Torqueing the rear upper control arm nuts is a real PITA by the way. Cannot get our torque wrench in there to get any movement whether on the ramps or with the wheel cranked all the way. Guess we'll have to pull the wheel again. Darnit!

 

[OR VietVet]

Aren't those arms supposed to be torqued with the weight of the vehicle on the ground? If you remove the wheel for access, I would still put the weight down on a stand to simulate. Unless I got it wrong and someone else chimes in.

 

[ls1frc]

Post a video of the noise.

 

[thompsoj22]

Your not "messing" with viscosity or brands of oil in anyway are you? even if the filter were dry everything should pump up within seconds without any brand changes in filter/oil vis. I dont have the afm system but it sounds like one lifter is jammed in the ramp area and needs to be freed up. Can you activate afm and allow the system to do its thing and possibly fix itself and then turn it off again? As you can tell i dont know shi! about afm, lol

 

[swathdiver]

Aren't those arms supposed to be torqued with the weight of the vehicle on the ground? If you remove the wheel for access, I would still put the weight down on a stand to simulate. Unless I got it wrong and someone else chimes in.

Funny that you say that. The shop manual mentions no such thing but everywhere else does. When we initially tightened the uppers and lowers, we positioned them as if the truck were sitting on its tires. When I do pull the wheels to tighten the rear nuts on the uppers, we're going to make sure that the arms are where they would be if the truck was sitting on the ground as before.

Post a video of the noise.

Your not "messing" with viscosity or brands of oil in anyway are you? even if the filter were dry everything should pump up within seconds without any brand changes in filter/oil vis. I dont have the afm system but it sounds like one lifter is jammed in the ramp area and needs to be freed up. Can you activate afm and allow the system to do its thing and possibly fix itself and then turn it off again? As you can tell i dont know shi! about afm, lol

Nope, same brand of oil and filter too. Good idea about AFM, thanks!

Sat one of my kids down yesterday to listen to some youtube videos of folks mentioning the same problem. She said it sounds like an exhaust leak to her and just like one of the videos. With all of my ailments, I'll trust her senses more than mine right now.

So after that I decided to take the truck out for a drive. My wife was suffering from a touch of cabin fever and joined me. I threw in all the straps and tow gear in case something happened in the back and off we went. About a quarter mile down the road we heard a clanging noise as the 22mm wrench my little one left on the upper control arm bolt fell away and onto the road. Turned around and picked it up and then got on it pretty good to get up to speed. The tires spun and traction control came on and the motor was running great.

Drove out to the Martin Road Scenic Highway and then back around towards town where we went off road to run in 4HI and 4LO for a few miles and got the truck covered in mud. After that we went to dinner. From inside the cab the sounds cannot be heard. Frankly, I think it is an exhaust leak now, there's no way the engine would run like that with a partially collapsed lifter and not throw codes or even a single misfire on the Tech-2. Could I be wrong?

 

[OR VietVet]

Can you get a stethoscope and really get in there at the exhaust manifold? I would take the probe out of the end of the stethoscope hose and just use the hose to listen. I have found many a vacuum leak doing it that way.

 

[91RS]

It could be a collapsed lifter with no misfire. Working on this 10 Escalade now which had no misfires at all and ran smooth as glass, just very noisy.

 

[iamdub]

AFM disabled since 2017. Noise happens faster as rpms go up. If it is a lifter Chris, why no CELs or misfires?

The lifter can be noisy enough to hear before it gets bad enough to cause a misfire. Does the noise ever go away? Does it increase with more rpm? Is it louder with higher rpm?

Been working late, but, what Ron said. On first start after sitting for a couple of weeks, I had one that would tick. It varied in loudness and lasted anywhere from three seconds to a few minutes. The engine ran fine and I never got any SES lights or felt or logged any misfires.

Also, your symptoms are reversed from the norm. Usually, the lifter is loud then quiets after oil gets circulated and pressure builds. After reading further, I see that you had not ruled out an exhaust leak. While they, as well, usually quiet down in time as the metal heats up and expands, it's certainly possible that it could expand and deform in such a way that it creates an exhaust leak.

 

[swathdiver]

Can you get a stethoscope and really get in there at the exhaust manifold? I would take the probe out of the end of the stethoscope hose and just use the hose to listen. I have found many a vacuum leak doing it that way.

Yes, all you hear is the whoosh of the exhaust air, no other sounds really.

It could be a collapsed lifter with no misfire. Working on this 10 Escalade now which had no misfires at all and ran smooth as glass, just very noisy.

Been working late, but, what Ron said. On first start after sitting for a couple of weeks, I had one that would tick. It varied in loudness and lasted anywhere from three seconds to a few minutes. The engine ran fine and I never got any SES lights or felt or logged any misfires.

Also, your symptoms are reversed from the norm. Usually, the lifter is loud then quiets after oil gets circulated and pressure builds. After reading further, I see that you had not ruled out an exhaust leak. While they, as well, usually quiet down in time as the metal heats up and expands, it's certainly possible that it could expand and deform in such a way that it creates an exhaust leak.

Well, I guess the collapsed lifter cannot be completely ruled out. In my experience, a ticking lifter does not necessarily mean a collapsed lifter.

Don't hear anything amiss when the listening probe touches the manifolds or heads or valve cover bolts. The noise resonates through the injectors and is loudest at #4. I did not get a chance to put the probe under the manifolds at the head, would like to do that or even a piece of paper to see if the exhaust blows on it.

Very sore today and it is gorgeous out, so have been fiddling in the garage enjoying the weather and trying to rest my eye balls.

 

[OR VietVet]

I would listen with a stethoscope from a complete cold start to a complete warm up and maybe have to do it a few times. Intermittent problems are a PITA!