Electric Suburban / Electric Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade EV

[GTNator]

I dont think it will pass 35 percent of the market overall. No infrastructure to support them and living with one is okay but without faster charging or a battery swap program they are glorified golf carts.

Golf cart? Really? You think this looks or behaves like a golf cart?

1000 horse power; 11,500 pound feet of torque. I bet the horsepower of whatever most of us drive is actually closer to a golf cart’s horsepower than it is to GM’s new electric Hummer.


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[cardude2000]

Have batteries progressed that far already? That was fast! It seemed like yesterday that they were catching fire or exploding at an alarming rate. And the expense you incur when it dies and won't fully charge anymore...it's around half the cost of a new one once you throw in the labor to swap it out. And what are they going to do with the dead batteries? I don't think they have a way to dispose of them that is enviro friendly. Just dig a pit, throw them in and cover them over? Sounds like what they do to nuclear waste. Let future generations worry about it. Fun Fact: Most delivery companies won't ship anything with modern batteries in them because of the hazard and potential of leakage or fire. And you want me to drive around with one?

I would rather have an alcohol/ethanol powered vehicle. I've seen it doesn't take much to convert a gasser to A/E. And it's renewable, not to mention much simpler and cleaner. I guess corporations can't make enough from it, so they're going for a complete system overhaul. And we're going to pay for it in more ways than one. Makes you wonder...

Recycling takes scale to be profitable and once more EV’s take to the road that scale will skyrocket.

It does make you wonder what GM/Ford die hards will do in a few years when all they can buy is an EV GM model...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/ba...finally-takes-off-in-north-america-and-europe


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[cardude2000]

I dont think it will pass 35 percent of the market overall. No infrastructure to support them and living with one is okay but without faster charging or a battery swap program they are glorified golf carts.

They are better in virtually every way except for range. And the vast majority of Americans car usage is almost all local (cue all of the “well me and the family drive from North Dakota to Wallyworld towing an RV, boat and BBQ rig/pizza oven every summer and twice in flag day!!”).

I think battery swaps is a good idea and should be the focus. A singular agreed upon standard. Pull into a super charging station and if you don’t have time to top off, swap out the battery pack. With the current market so fragmented though I don’t think that’s likely for quite some time.

An hour of charge gives between 30-50 miles of range. If shopping centers had charging stations the only issue left is the road trip of over 400 miles where you don’t ever stop.

Either way it’s coming and people can choose to be the grumpy old man or embrace it.

 

[wsteele]

Recycling takes scale to be profitable and once more EV’s take to the road that scale will skyrocket.

It does make you wonder what GM/Ford die hards will do in a few years when all they can buy is an EV GM model...

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/ba...finally-takes-off-in-north-america-and-europe


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JB Straubel, one of the founders of Tesla, left the company last year to found a battery recycling and materials company. The guy is a pretty credible character, he says yields of 80% of the Lithium and 95+% of the Nickel and Cobalt is attainable today. As far as it being less “cost effective” than new cells, that is kind of a moot point.

Whatever the net/net cost of owning an EV in America is going to be, we are all going to be paying it. At least and until the reality of what EV actually costs and provides becomes common knowledge and there is another better cheaper zero emission alternative, like fuel cell tech, etc.

Fossil fuels will be around for a long time, but use by us little people has an expiration date.

 

[dubyagee01]

Golf cart? Really? You think this looks or behaves like a golf cart?

1000 horse power; 11,500 pound feet of torque. I bet the horsepower of whatever most of us drive is actually closer to a golf cart’s horsepower than it is to GM’s new electric Hummer.


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No horsepower at all waiting for it to charge.

Yep. Golf cart.

 

[cardude2000]

No horsepower at all waiting for it to charge.

Yep. Golf cart.

Most golf carts are actually ancient gas engines.

Call the future whatever you like. Either way, it’ll be leaving you in the dust.


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[cardude2000]

JB Straubel, one of the founders of Tesla, left the company last year to found a battery recycling and materials company. The guy is a pretty credible character, he says yields of 80% of the Lithium and 95+% of the Nickel and Cobalt is attainable today. As far as it being less “cost effective” than new cells, that is kind of a moot point.

Whatever the net/net cost of owning an EV in America is going to be, we are all going to be paying it. At least and until the reality of what EV actually costs and provides becomes common knowledge and there is another better cheaper zero emission alternative, like fuel cell tech, etc.

Fossil fuels will be around for a long time, but use by us little people has an expiration date.

The point I was making is that the batteries can be recycled today and as more and more batteries come off line (and into the recycling stream) the cost effectiveness of the process will increase. This will not only drive down the cost of batteries but lower the demand for raw materials that go into them.

And I agree. We all pay for new tech. It’s the way she goes. Forever and always.

 

[mb1500]

Most golf carts are actually ancient gas engines.

Call the future whatever you like. Either way, it’ll be leaving you in the dust.


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Basic example: hurricane evacuation.

While you’re waiting hours for your vehicle to charge I’ll be driving past you with a full tank of gas and as many full 5 gallon gasoline cans as I care to carry. Grid goes down, you’re not going anywhere. Even when it comes back up, better hope the CC machine is working because you probably don’t believe in carrying cash ether...

 

[wsteele]

The point I was making is that the batteries can be recycled today and as more and more batteries come off line (and into the recycling stream) the cost effectiveness of the process will increase. This will not only drive down the cost of batteries but lower the demand for raw materials that go into them.

And I agree. We all pay for new tech. It’s the way she goes. Forever and always.

No argument here on the recycling facts.

Even if the combined cost of a mix of new and recycled battery materials costs more than all new, recycled will be a major part of the mix. Public policy will make it so.

 

[cardude2000]

Basic example: hurricane evacuation.

While you’re waiting hours for your vehicle to charge I’ll be driving past you with a full tank of gas and as many full 5 gallon gasoline cans as I care to carry. Grid goes down, you’re not going anywhere. Even when it comes back up, better hope the CC machine is working because you probably don’t believe in carrying cash ether...

I don’t live where there are hurricanes.

Like I said, you’re welcome to live in fear of the future. To each their own. [emoji3577]


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[GTNator]

Basic example: hurricane evacuation.

While you’re waiting hours for your vehicle to charge I’ll be driving past you with a full tank of gas and as many full 5 gallon gasoline cans as I care to carry. Grid goes down, you’re not going anywhere. Even when it comes back up, better hope the CC machine is working because you probably don’t believe in carrying cash ether...

Actually the great thing about EVs is during a natural disaster/storm you can use the huge batteries to power your house. It basically becomes a mobile generator. And if you have solar, you charge as much as you want, at home. While the rest of people with gas cars wait for HOURS in gas station lines and fight each other like animals, lol, then come home to a cold, dark house with no electricity.


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[dubyagee01]

Actually the great thing about EVs is during a natural disaster/storm you can use the huge batteries to power your house. It basically becomes a mobile generator. And if you have solar, you charge as much as you want, at home. While the rest of people with gas cars wait for HOURS in gas station lines and fight each other like animals, lol, then come home to a cold, dark house with no electricity.


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Generator. Lol

Its a proprietary battery. How do plan in tapping into that power? You know how many panels it would take to make it useful as a solar battery?

Sounds like a lot of generalizations disguised as specifics. You know like global warming.

 

[cardude2000]

Generator. Lol

Its a proprietary battery. How do plan in tapping into that power? You know how many panels it would take to make it useful as a solar battery?

Sounds like a lot of generalizations disguised as specifics. You know like global warming.

You don’t have to believe in science or embrace technology. But to get so upset about it seems really odd. Let’s just all agree that hopefully there will always be all types of vehicles available [emoji482]


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[dubyagee01]

You don’t have to believe in science or embrace technology. But to get so upset about it seems really odd. Let’s just all agree that hopefully there will always be all types of vehicles available [emoji482]


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Stop trying to claim the moral high ground. You look like a douche.

No one is upset.

 

[cardude2000]

Stop trying to claim the moral high ground. You look like a douche.

No one is upset.

Hang in there.

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[wsteele]

You don’t have to believe in science or embrace technology. But to get so upset about it seems really odd. Let’s just all agree that hopefully there will always be all types of vehicles available [emoji482]


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I actually don’t think there will always be all types of vehicles available, at least in the new category. California has already made it clear 2035 is the cutoff for new internal combustion vehicles, at least for private citizens.

Other factors that I think will hasten the demise of fossil fuel vehicles will be taxes and regulation, which will likely make internal combustion engined cars more and more expensive to operate and impractical. Gas stations can go the way of the dodo pretty quickly, just turn the screw on environmental pollution penalties and it can become ruinous to own a filling station, at the stroke of a pen.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but the country took a big hop left last month, a kind of a seismic event, as it were. Not sure that vector is changing anytime soon.

 

[cardude2000]

I actually don’t think there will always be all types of vehicles available, at least in the new category. California has already made it clear 2035 is the cutoff for new internal combustion vehicles, at least for private citizens.

Other factors that I think will hasten the demise of fossil fuel vehicles will be taxes and regulation, which will likely make internal combustion engined cars more and more expensive to operate and impractical. Gas stations can go the way of the dodo pretty quickly, just turn the screw on environmental pollution penalties and it can become ruinous to own a filling station, at the stroke of a pen.

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here, but the country took a big hop left last month, a kind of a seismic event, as it were. Not sure that vector is changing anytime soon.

I’m highly skeptical of the 2035 timeline. Right now the OMG industry is the most heavily subsidized/incentivized industry in history. They’re not going to let go of that money and power easily.

Even if it did happen and all 50 states met the goal, all sorts of loopholes would exist. Not to mention half the people here hate the “new” GM’s already and drive 10+ year old models. At the youngest these buyers are 50 today...65 when this hits and they’ll have 20 years of viable used gas vehicles to buy before they croak.

As for the rest of us we’ll be rockin SUV’s with 600+ mile range, quick charge/battery swap tech and smoking them at lights with 2.5 0-60 times.

 

[wsteele]

I’m highly skeptical of the 2035 timeline. Right now the OMG industry is the most heavily subsidized/incentivized industry in history. They’re not going to let go of that money and power easily.

Even if it did happen and all 50 states met the goal, all sorts of loopholes would exist. Not to mention half the people here hate the “new” GM’s already and drive 10+ year old models. At the youngest these buyers are 50 today...65 when this hits and they’ll have 20 years of viable used gas vehicles to buy before they croak.

As for the rest of us we’ll be rockin SUV’s with 600+ mile range, quick charge/battery swap tech and smoking them at lights with 2.5 0-60 times.

I wasn’t implying there would be no gas vehicles on the road in 2036, but I can see a Federal ban on vehicles the use fossil fuel being sold new in that timeframe. Heck, if all the majors decide to go all EV, there may only be Toyota to choose from if you want gas or diesel.

As far as the used fleet, no doubt any bans would allow them to remain on the road. But again, a big step up in EPA penalties for any violation in pollution regulations could make selling gas at the corner station an unviable business.

Again, time will tell and maybe things will evolve more slowly, but from my perspective right now, the role government is going to play in all our lives as it pertains to fossil fuels just took a major stair step function up.

 

[cardude2000]

I wasn’t implying there would be no gas vehicles on the road in 2036, but I can see a Federal ban on vehicles the use fossil fuel being sold new in that timeframe. Heck, if all the majors decide to go all EV, there may only be Toyota to choose from if you want gas or diesel.

As far as the used fleet, no doubt any bans would allow them to remain on the road. But again, a big step up in EPA penalties for any violation in pollution regulations could make selling gas at the corner station an unviable business.

Again, time will tell and maybe things will evolve more slowly, but from my perspective right now, the role government is going to play in all our lives as it pertains to fossil fuels just took a major stair step function up.

The rapid decline in battery costs and public demand is already driving the industry (pun intended). Ten years ago it was thought that it would be virtually impossible to get battery costs under $1000/KwH. We’re now at $125/KwH. The target for the auto industry to be profitable was $250/KwH. In 10 years they will be the more cost effective option.

All policy is window dressing made to appease the masses at this point. The govt is chasing a demand curve thats already going vertical. You’ll know they are actually serious when they stop OMG subsidies and tax incentives. Which is to say, never.

 

[Doubeleive]

I will just say it is going to take a LOT AND A LONG TIME to tame the oil & gas tiger that exist's outside of your future hope of battery power, ECONOMICS have a play here and oil & gas are very large portion of it, there are reasons the government does and does not do things. To make all these "required" batteries you need raw materials, guess where all those materials come from? yep from under your feet, this means mining has to increase over 500% in most cases, it takes 50-100 lbs of raw material to make 1lb of battery (not just dirt i'm talking specific minerals), most of these raw materials are processed guess where? China (currently and quickly becoming our mortal cold war enemy) then you have to throw in Covid-19 economics current projections with a BEST case scenario say it will take 4 years just to catch up to where we peaked in 2019 economy wise presuming HIGH economic growth, other projections say it might take up to 2050 before we even hit the benchmark, the impact has not really even set in yet the government is still bottle feeding the economy.
a postage stamp size solar array is not going to power the empire state building, thinking battery power will go the way of the computer cpu is absurd, the materials needed for energy storage are hard materials those materials are not going to shrink to the size of a ant, more capacity means more space. It takes 100X the energy to produce a battery that will have the storage capacity of 1X the energy it took to make it. That is our reality, even a 200% increase in battery storage capacity will not meet what fossil fuels provide
The taxes generated from fossil fuel use are stupendous, if you think for even a minute they won't regulate battery powered vehicles to get the equal amount of taxes then you are just plain stupid. It's just plain economics.
on top of that fossil fuels produce 2/3rd's of the worlds electricity, it also powers shipping, flying, basically all forms of transport as we know it today (well you do have submarines and carriers). maybe someday you will be able to fly to china on battery power but I doubt it will be within any of our children's lifetimes