Renamed: 06 Esky LS364/450 Build (New Leather Seat covers)

[m1949]

I've been doing some digging to get a graph of a dyno on GM's Performance LS364 similar to what is being installed in my 06 Escalade. Some here have expressed concern about loss of lowend torque because of the LS6 cam. I brought this up to Metal Works Classics, who did the video below and they referred me to Matt at Springer Performance, and also sent me the dyno graph shown below, which is from the engine in the video. I also contacted West Bend Dyno who sell GM Performance engines. Both said about the same thing, indicating they have not seen loss of lowend torque compared to the stock LQ9 as a result of supplying the LS364 with a LS6 cam. Vince Hausmen from West Bend wrote me:

"While the overall power curve of the new engine is shifted higher in the RPM range compared to the old engine it still makes more power and torque everywhere thanks to the better LS3 cylinder heads. Low end torque would be the same or more and mid / high range is quite a bit more. GM used the LS6 camshaft as this engine was originally intended for C5 Corvette’s and 4th Gen F-Body’s. We have used it in many other platforms including pick-up trucks and even a Trailblazer SS. Every client has been extremely happy with the results."

In a few weeks I hope to post the dyno results from my install. I don't expect the HP number to be this high since my results will be at the rear wheels. Also, my setup is a bit different from the video. I'm using shortie headers and TBSS manifold and TB. I went with shorties because the guys at Speed Engineering told me if I am concerned about lowend torque shortie headers are a better choice. But we shall see. Stay tuned ........

The graph and utube video of the dyno run are below.

 

[Mudsport96]

Shorty headers are marginally better than stock manifolds. Of you are doing headers long tubes are the only way to go.

 

[m1949]

I aprreciate you sharing your opinion about headers. But, the shortie headers are already bought. I did quite a bit of reading, viewing and discussion of headers before deciding to go with shorties. According to what I read, saw on Utube (the video you posted is one of several I watched) and had confirmed by the guys at Speed Engineering, long tubes produce more top end power than do shorties in comparison to an oe manifold. The numbers given to me were anywhere from 15 to 30 +hp for longtubes and perhaps up to 15 +hp for shorties. But they also stated shorties do better for low end torque than longtubes. Since this build will not be raced or do burnouts, and is a daily driver, and since the LS364 is spec'd to add around 85hp of power at the top end and 50 lb/ft of top end torque over the LQ9 it replaced, I decided to sacrifice a bit of top end performance to help low end torque by going with shortie headers. Thanks again for sharing your concern.

 

[m1949]

I aprreciate you sharing your opinion about headers. But, the shortie headers are already bought. I did quite a bit of reading, viewing and discussion of headers before deciding to go with shorties. According to what I read, saw on Utube (the video you posted is one of several I watched) and had confirmed by the guys at Speed Engineering, long tubes produce more top end power than do shorties in comparison to an oe manifold. The numbers given to me were anywhere from 15 to 30 +hp for longtubes and perhaps up to 15 +hp for shorties. But they also stated shorties do better for low end torque than longtubes. Since this build will not be raced or do burnouts, and is a daily driver, and since the LS364 is spec'd to add around 85hp of power at the top end and 50 lb/ft of top end torque over the LQ9 it replaced, I decided to sacrifice a bit of top end performance to help low end torque by going with shortie headers. Thanks again for sharing your concern.

Another important reason I chose shortie headers is the cats can be attached to shorties without modification.

 

[mattt]

I've been doing some digging to get a graph of a dyno on GM's Performance LS364 similar to what is being installed in my 06 Escalade. Some here have expressed concern about loss of lowend torque because of the LS6 cam. I brought this up to Metal Works Classics, who did the video below and they referred me to Matt at Springer Performance, and also sent me the dyno graph shown below, which is from the engine in the video. I also contacted West Bend Dyno who sell GM Performance engines. Both said about the same thing, indicating they have not seen loss of lowend torque compared to the stock LQ9 as a result of supplying the LS364 with a LS6 cam. Vince Hausmen from West Bend wrote me:

"While the overall power curve of the new engine is shifted higher in the RPM range compared to the old engine it still makes more power and torque everywhere thanks to the better LS3 cylinder heads. Low end torque would be the same or more and mid / high range is quite a bit more. GM used the LS6 camshaft as this engine was originally intended for C5 Corvette’s and 4th Gen F-Body’s. We have used it in many other platforms including pick-up trucks and even a Trailblazer SS. Every client has been extremely happy with the results."

In a few weeks I hope to post the dyno results from my install. I don't expect the HP number to be this high since my results will be at the rear wheels. Also, my setup is a bit different from the video. I'm using shortie headers and TBSS manifold and TB. I went with shorties because the guys at Speed Engineering told me if I am concerned about lowend torque shortie headers are a better choice. But we shall see. Stay tuned ........

The graph and utube video of the dyno run are below.

What throttle body are you using with the TBSS manifold? Are you going to pick up the X-link so the newer 6 wire throttle body will work with your 8 wire plug Gen 3 Escalade?

 

[m1949]

Working on it. Orignal plan was to use TBSS throttle body, but I heard from the builder today that I bought the wrong harness. I haven't bought the new TB yet, so we are trying to decide if the extra cost for a new TB and the X-Link adapter vs. going with a four to three bolt adapter plate and using the old TB is worth a few added hp.

Well after learning I'd purchased the wrong throttle body harness, and seeing the price of the X-Link, plus the added cost of the larger throttle body, I've decided to buy an adapter plate and use the old TB from the LQ9. It isn't worth it to me to spend ~$350 to get the slight increase in power a larger TB would make.

 

[fasteddy]

Looking forward to the results. I swapped to a 6.0 last summer and love it. I wrestled with the LS364/450 vs 6.0 with cathedrals. I had done the 6.0/LS3 heads before in a camaro and the LS3 heads are low on TQ below 3000. But above 3000 they light up especially with a big cam. I did an LQ9 with shaved 317s and a big cam, 42lb injectors, stock manifold and TB. Love it! I got about 360lbs of TQ at 1500rpms up to about 415 at 5000rpms ..... at the wheels....about 420 to 490 at crank, approx. And with 3.73 gears I get about 19mpg on the hwy at 78-80mph. So I am happy with the result.

 

[m1949]

Thanks for the input! The mpg is the big question right now. I'll be overjoyed if we do as well as you. Going with the LS364/450 instead of a stock LQ9 longblock was a budget decision. My situation made the LS cheaper than a stock LQ9 since unlike GM, GM Performance did not have a block/core deposit. GM's was $2500 for the old engine. This was a problem since I had already negotiated the old engine as partial payment for the build.

I went back and forth on the issue of torque because of the LS6 cam. But the people at GM performance and a couple vendors I spoke to who sell and install this engine assured me the LS3 heads compensate for the cam, so low to mid range torque is comparable to better than with the stock LQ9 setup. We shall see.

Looks like the program tune will happen in the next couple weeks After initial tune the programmer/tuner will drive the truck for about a week to collect data and tweak the tune. I've stressed to him that this build is not about 1/4 mile et or burnouts. Its a daily driver so drive-ability and MPG are major considerations. We shall see!

 

[mattt]

In researching the NNBS/TBSS intake manifold swap onto a Gen 3 engine, I seem to remember reading that most of the improvement from making the swap is due to the larger 87mm 4 bolt throttle body which allows more airflow VS the stock 78mm 3 bolt throttle body. I do think there is some improved flow with the updated manifold itself, but it sounds like the throttle body is key here. Not trying to dissuade you from making the intake manifold swap, just relaying what I had read about it.

That X link is a pricey bugger, but it might be the only option to run the larger 4 bolt TB with 6 pin connector. I have looked for alternatives to the X link but have not found any other work around as of yet.
The other thing you'll need to contend with is the difference in fuel rails. If you got your TBSS NNBS intake with fuel rails then you're good to go, since your Escalade engine likely did not have a return line. If you only have 1 line connection to the fuel rail, that is what the NNBS TBSS fuel rail has. However, I believe your original 06 rails had a fuel pressure regulator and the NNBS TBSS rails do not. I have read there is a correction that can be done in the tune to overcome the lack of a regulator. I'm not sure how that works, but that one I've read multiple places.
My 04 FF has a return line so my intake swap will require a few more things to work. I'm tempted to find the one year (2005) only old style, truck intake manifold that has the flange for the larger 4 bolt 87mm throttle body. I'm considering this so I can use my factory 04 fuel rails, which should bolt up on this manifold, even though it was not used on a full size SUV or Truck.

 

[Tonyrodz]

In researching the NNBS/TBSS intake manifold swap onto a Gen 3 engine, I seem to remember reading that most of the improvement from making the swap is due to the larger 87mm 4 bolt throttle body which allows more airflow VS the stock 78mm 3 bolt throttle body. I do think there is some improved flow with the updated manifold itself, but it sounds like the throttle body is key here. Not trying to dissuade you from making the intake manifold swap, just relaying what I had read about it.

That X link is a pricey bugger, but it might be the only option to run the larger 4 bolt TB with 6 pin connector. I have looked for alternatives to the X link but have not found any other work around as of yet.
The other thing you'll need to contend with is the difference in fuel rails. If you got your TBSS NNBS intake with fuel rails then you're good to go, since your Escalade engine likely did not have a return line. If you only have 1 line connection to the fuel rail, that is what the NNBS TBSS fuel rail has. However, I believe your original 06 rails had a fuel pressure regulator and the NNBS TBSS rails do not. I have read there is a correction that can be done in the tune to overcome the lack of a regulator. I'm not sure how that works, but that one I've read multiple places.
My 04 FF has a return line so my intake swap will require a few more things to work. I'm tempted to find the one year (2005) only old style, truck intake manifold that has the flange for the larger 4 bolt 87mm throttle body. I'm considering this so I can use my factory 04 fuel rails, which should bolt up on this manifold, even though it was not used on a full size SUV or Truck.

What vehicles did that 1 year only intake come on?

 

[mattt]

What vehicles did that 1 year only intake come on?

Chevy Trailblazer & GMC Envoy

 

[m1949]

Well, its back to an X-Link adapter and 6 pin throttle body! Turns out the OE waterpump for the LQ9 interferes with the 4 to 3 bolt throttle body adapter plate. That left me with a choice of buying a Camaro water pump or use a larger 4 bolt throttle body. Faced with buying another waterpump (I'd already got a new one for the build) it was a no brainer to spend the money on the X-link adapter. My builder "donated" a larger 4 bolt throttle body from a blown engine he has on hand. Don't have its specs, so I don't know if its an 87mm or 93mm diameter. Either way, the increase from 78mm means more air to the intake! The engine is buttoned up. Now, the builder is waiting for the tuner to come by this week to dial in the engine and fire it up! I've asked them to make a video of the startup. If they do I'll post it.

 

[m1949]

Here's where LS364 06 Esky build stands today:

1. Bellteck 2/3 kit installed along with other suspension/steering components. (Autoride removed and disabled.)
2. Removed trailer tow hitch receiver
3. Removed spare tire in prep for center rear exhaust.
4. L4/65E Trans rebuilt and installed
5. Engine installed with shortie headers and awaiting initial dial-in by tuner. Engine is GM Performance LS364/450 pn 19370163, manifold pn 12597600, fuel rail 12621663, injectors 12609749, GM 4 bolt throttle body using X-link adapter, new GM OE coils, plugs, wires, new water-pump, starter, alternator, a/c compressor, power-steering pump, radiator, plus misc. hoses, sensors, etc.
6. Rear diff opened, inspected and serviced (2wd)
7. 20" wheels from '18 Escalade installed with Michelin Defender 285/55/20 tires.
8. Ordered Medium Red leather seat covers and extra material from Leatherseats.com. Due in early March
9. Cladding/badges removed in prep for paint reconditioning.

Not yet complete:
1. NNBS front brake upgrade with slotted rotors all around.
2. Install true dual 2.5" exhausts with rear centered exhaust
3. Paint and install new front bumper
4. Touch-up painting, plus mono-color painting of front grill, rear bumper and running-board step pads to match OE Sport Red Metallic. Recondition OE paint job. Reinstall cladding.
5. Replace HVAC actuators
6. Install medium Red seat covers from Leatherseats.com; plus, add medium red trim to door panel inserts/arm rests and console lid. Paint dark pewter dash cover to match seat covers. Replace and recover center console lid using Tahoe/Yukon lid in prep for phone charging pad. This will make the interior two-tone med red/pewter similar to the two tone style interior in newer Escalades.
7. Complete program tune after dual exhausts installed.
8. Install new fuel pump. (Waiting to do this until after dial-in to determine if we need to go with a high-flow fuel pump. GM Performance says stock fp will work. We'll see.
9. About a dozen other small jobs including detailing interior and coat undercarriage with rust inhibitor.
10. Break-in and 2 to 3 week shakedown by builder prior to delivery.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Here's where LS364 06 Esky build stands today:

1. Bellteck 2/3 kit installed along with other suspension components.
2. L4/65E Trans rebuilt and installed
3. Engine installed and awaiting initial dial-in by tuner
Engine is GM Performance LS364/450 pn 19370163, manifold pn 12597600, fuel rail 12621663, injecctors 12609749, new GM OE coils, plugs, wires, new water-pump, starter, alternator, a/c compressor, power-steering pump, radiator, plus misc. hoses, sensors, etc.
4. Rear diff opened, inspected and serviced (2wd)
5. 20" wheels from '18 Escalade installed with Michelin Defender 285/55/20 tires.
6. Medium red leather seat covers from Leatherseats.com ordered, due in early March
7. Cladding removed in prep for paint reconditioning.

Not yet complete:
1. NNBS front brake upgrade with slotted rotors all around.
2. Install true dual 2.5" exhausts with rear centered exhaust
3. Touch-up painting, plus mono-color painting of front grill, rear bumper and running-board step pads to match OE Sport Red Metallic. Recondition OE paint job.
4. Replace HVAC actuators
5. Install medium Red seat covers from Leatherseats.com; plus, add medium red trim to door panel inserts/arm rests and console lid. Paint dark pewter dash cover to match seat covers. Replace and recover center console with Tahoe lid in prep for phone charging pad. This will make the interior two-tone med red/pewter similar to the two tone style interior in newer Escalades.
6. Complete program tune after dual exhausts installed.
7. Install new fuel pump. (Waiting to do this until after dial-in to determine if we need to go with a high-flow fuel pump. GM Performance says stock fp will work. We'll see.
8. About a dozen other small jobs.
9. Break-in and 2 to 3 week shakedown by builder prior to delivery.

Sounds like everything is coming together. I can't wait to see and hear it when it's done. Gonna be one bad M UTHA!!

 

[m1949]

Thanks. Its taking a while, but I believe its well worth the wait. I've known the builder for about 15 years and seen he does incredible work. We've only had one delay. When the builder came down with COVID we lost about three weeks. Its also going slow because this is a side-job for the builder. His main business is as a used car wholesaler. He does restomods on classics (mostly GM) he comes across, can buy right, and easily build and flip. Last year he sold 2 restomod C10s, an LS equipped Wrangler and a 525hp foxbody Mustang at Mecum in Dallas.

 

[m1949]

Startup! The Esky is running with its new LS364/450 engine! I have a video of it running which shows the engine bay and a walk-around to the exhaust. But I can't find a way to post it to the forum. Any way to post it?

 

[m1949]

To any who are interested, here is a link to a short video of the first run after dial-in of the LS364 engine just installed in my 2006 Escalade. This is with stock exhaust. The final tune will be done after dual exhausts are installed. Hope to post some dyno results when they do the final tune.

 

[m1949]

To any who are interested, here is a link to a short video of the first run after dial-in of the LS364 engine just installed in my 2006 Escalade. This is with stock exhaust. The final tune will be done after dual exhausts are installed. Hope to post some dyno results when they do the final tune.

Seat covers from Leatherseats.com arrived today. They look great. Worksmanship appears to be first rate. Included a pre-paint reconditioning photo and picture of the door trim so you can get an idea of how the colors will look together. The dark gray dash cover will be painted red to match the seats and the door armrests and trim insert will get red leather upholstury to match the seats and dash. The remainder of the trim will remain pewter. Will likely be about a month more before these are installed since the interior will be done last. Trying to decide whether to change the carpeting to charcoal color or stay with the OE color. Any thoughts?

 

[iamdub]

Seat covers from Leatherseats.com arrived today. They look great. Worksmanship appears to be first rate. Included a pre-paint reconditioning photo and picture of the door trim so you can get an idea of how the colors will look together. The dark gray dash cover will be painted red to match the seats and the door armrests and trim insert will get red leather upholstury to match the seats and dash. The remainder of the trim will remain pewter. Will likely be about a month more before these are installed since the interior will be done last. Trying to decide whether to change the carpeting to charcoal color or stay with the OE color. Any thoughts?

Tough decision on the carpet color. Function brain says to go with charcoal to hide dirt. Form brain says the original color is a better match. I don't think charcoal carpet wouldn't look good, though.

 

[m1949]

Here is the dyno graph and a video link for the first dyno run of the LS364/450 we installed in the 06 Escalade build. The HP and torque figures are at the rear wheels. The tuner's correction program put max crankshaft HP at 450. He will do more runs over the next few days to tweak the program. I believe he started with an LS 6.0L Corvette tune and is working out a new program from that.
https://youtu.be/jRAlIgNYOtA