Mild 6.0L Build Suggestions?

[Dantheman1540]

We built a open wheel racecar when I was in college. Intake had to be restricted for our class of racing which meant had to custom tune the engine, was a honda CB600 if memory serves me right. Super fun, I drove a unrestricted setup 140hp 14000rpm (something like that) geared down from bike setup we pulled engine from and put in our racecar. weighed approx 400 pounds minus driver. Some of the cars could hit 60mph in under 2 seconds. The last car I worked on could pull over 2 g in a corner. I think we got 1.4g in the one i drove. It was insanely fun. We took it to regular unrestricted races and were untouchable, always aboslutely crushed street cars haha like tricked out vipers, vettes, lotus, ferrari etc anything really that was designed for street couldnt touch us despite being exotic.

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That sounds like a blast to drive!

I am not sure what cam is gd. partly why I haven't settled on a cam. Whatever I get is important I don't sacrafice anything down low.

I saw a review on sloppy stage 2 but he cut off his dino graphs at 3k rpm Seems to be an affordable cam tho.

I think brian tooley makes some gd stuff too?

Another person suggested a custom grind but that is really expensive too.

There is a crazy expensive monster comp cam that makes power across whole way but not sure about it as is like $450 or something.

Maybe I just need to pony up$$ or does anybodybhave good results with off the shelf cam?

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I've run 2 off the shelf cams in my 6.0 and here my thoughts on them.

The first was the super popular and awesome 212/218 high lift .600/.600 112lsa. Its a great cam drives like stock but with more power across the entire curve except I felt it dropped off well before 6k probably around 5k which is fine for 99.9% of driving. My biggest complaint was it sounded almost completely stock in a 6.0 which is good and bad depending on if you like the sound of an aggressive cam at idle. https://www.texas-speed.com/p-8557-tsp-stage-2-high-lift-53-truck-camshaft.aspx


The second and current cam is a 224/228 .600/.600 113lsa. To me, it feels like it does everything the first cam did except it falls off at or just over 6k where the previous cam fell of around 5k. The idle sound is more aggressive and actually sounds like it has a hoped up 6.0 in it but it doesn't rattle or shake and from the driver seat it still feels like it has a stock motor which is important to me in a daily driver. https://www.texas-speed.com/p-8546-tsp-224228-600600-camshaft.aspx

I only swapped from the first cam to the second because I had a valve spring fail and had to pull the heads off the motor anyway. I happened to have the second cam on my parts shelf for another project so I figured why not.

As for which I think is better, the 224/228 seems to have no downside so in a 6.0 or bigger I see no reason to go smaller than that unless you want a smaller powerband.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Thanks Dantheman1540, that's super helpful Did the 224/228 TSP give you more power down low, or at least not sacrifice any? And what is your mileage like (if you don't smash on the gas all the time haha)

OEM LQ9 vrs Hypereutectic Pistons (does this require re-balancing the crank?)

My pistons came in. I'm wondering about returning them. They are literally STOCK LQ9 flat tops. However, they didn't come with wrist pins or locks. I think maybe I can use the old wrist pins and snap rings from the ones I bought? That aside, I see I can buy Hypereutectic pistons w/ wrist pins. Only trouble is guy I bought the block from said, anything other than OEM pistons would require a re-balance of the crank. Is that the case? I'm assuming so?

Racecar fun... I miss those days!

The racecar was insane. I mean wow, I have a C5 corvette that's a bit of a beast for it's time. Back then I had a built Z28 which was also no slouch. I've also road in a AH60 blackhawk (PR thing). The racecar was a huge rush like the blackhawk. I'd get out of the driver seat after a run and my hands would be shaking from the adrenaline. My Corvette has a bit of a similar experience, but I mean, still a fraction of the rush from driving that racecar. FYI ~ Choice between Fbody and Vette, Fbody is WAY more fun to drive. I miss my Z28.

 

[Dantheman1540]

Thanks Dantheman1540, that's super helpful Did the 224/228 TSP give you more power down low, or at least not sacrifice any? And what is your mileage like (if you don't smash on the gas all the time haha)

OEM LQ9 vrs Hypereutectic Pistons (does this require re-balancing the crank?)

My pistons came in. I'm wondering about returning them. They are literally STOCK LQ9 flat tops. However, they didn't come with wrist pins or locks. I think maybe I can use the old wrist pins and snap rings from the ones I bought? That aside, I see I can buy Hypereutectic pistons w/ wrist pins. Only trouble is guy I bought the block from said, anything other than OEM pistons would require a re-balance of the crank. Is that the case? I'm assuming so?

Racecar fun... I miss those days!

The racecar was insane. I mean wow, I have a C5 corvette that's a bit of a beast for it's time. Back then I had a built Z28 which was also no slouch. I've also road in a AH60 blackhawk (PR thing). The racecar was a huge rush like the blackhawk. I'd get out of the driver seat after a run and my hands would be shaking from the adrenaline. My Corvette has a bit of a similar experience, but I mean, still a fraction of the rush from driving that racecar. FYI ~ Choice between Fbody and Vette, Fbody is WAY more fun to drive. I miss my Z28.

I don't believe it gave more power down low but I also don't think it took away any power down low. MPG averages 14-15 around town and I havent done a road trip without a trailer since I switched cams so I'm not sure about highway.

If mpg and torque is your main concern I'd recommend something like @Tonyrodz has. It's a 218/224 .550/.550 110lsa a btr stage 3 truck cam. Good in between of the 2 I had but less lift which can help with valve train reliability and since the heads are mostly stock the extra lift of a .600/.600 cam won't produce much extra power. Vinci also suggests lower lift on a daily driver cam.

Even though it says stage 3 that's meaning for a 5.3, in a 6.0 it's a pretty tame cam but sounds nice at idle because it has 1*of overlap with the 110lsa.

 

[Tonyrodz]

I don't believe it gave more power down low but I also don't think it took away any power down low. MPG averages 14-15 around town and I havent done a road trip without a trailer since I switched cams so I'm not sure about highway.

If mpg and torque is your main concern I'd recommend something like @Tonyrodz has. It's a 218/224 .550/.550 110lsa a btr stage 3 truck cam. Good in between of the 2 I had but less lift which can help with valve train reliability and since the heads are mostly stock the extra lift of a .600/.600 cam won't produce much extra power. Vinci also suggests lower lift on a daily driver cam.

Even though it says stage 3 that's meaning for a 5.3, in a 6.0 it's a pretty tame cam but sounds nice at idle because it has 1*of overlap with the 110lsa.

Here's my cam card

My mileage isn't great, but I also drive it like I stole it. Off the line it's quicker then stock--it'll move out ok.It has great mid range power too. I've had it to 127 and it was still pulling--hard. I have beehive springs and had to change the pushrods out too.
Here's everything that was originally done back in 2017 with the 1st 6.0.

1st time I romped it, almost got away from me lol. I was used to the stock pedal response.
I personally like my setup--I also have 3.73's. Not sure what you have.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I have the stock 3.73 gears as well

I called up Summit Racing and ordered:

• Federal Mogal rering kit. Engine builder suggested any old cheapo kit off eBay, however, I wanted a trusted name though, so spent another $100 over eBay.
  
  
• Melling Timing chain set - Interestingly was ready to pull trigger on double roller, but guy at summit talked me out of it. Said there would be no point. Similar to what the engine builder said too.
  
  
• Head bolts - I got GM Performance parts one. Was half the price of ARP, although really like ARP stuff.

I had him suggest a CAM that wouldn't sacrifice any power. For a little while I'll be running stock 4L60E and converter, until I can get the new transmission build. But hate to sacrifice just for that. He suggested this cam but not sure I'm really big on it:

• COMP Cams XFI RPM 54-408-11 HERE Mainly it's really expensive and kind of a mild cam. I wonder if you pay for the brand name with COMP?
  
  
• BTR Stuff seems to be very reasonably priced and I like that I can buy matched kits for a little more than the price of that one cam so they are top of my list. I also stumbled across this...
  
  @Tonyrodz I LOVE THE SOUND OF YOUR CAM!!! I remember video you shared Did you get a built transmission or are you still running stock w/ new converter?
  
  
• Trick Flow TrackMax cam HOT ROD ARTICLE trick flow page HERE I originally had my sights set on the trick flow sloppy stage 2. But this cam looks like a good contender too and is reasonably priced as well. Only thing is I think the LQ9 pistons bring me to 10.1:1 compression this cam spec says 10.5:1 minimum.

MPG and Torque are important to me. I'll be doing lots of distance driving... However, would also love to have bragging rights of a 500 HP engine haha (even if that's theoretical stripped of all accessories to claim the rights) haha... I remember the days when big numbers were 300 HP.

 

[Dantheman1540]

I have the stock 3.73 gears as well

• COMP Cams XFI RPM 54-408-11 HERE Mainly it's really expensive and kind of a mild cam. I wonder if you pay for the brand name with COMP?

I'm sure that cam wouldn't lose any power anywhere but I feel it leaves some on the table, especially in the sounds department. Summit actually has some nice cams under their house brand that are under $300 if I remember correctly.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I don't want tobbn pay for comp name haha... Yeah I think I can get away with stock converter so long as I dont loose power down low right?

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[Dantheman1540]

I don't want tobbn pay for comp name haha... Yeah I think I can get away with stock converter so long as I dont loose power down low right?

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I don't own any autos so I don't know anything about converters unless your talking about that paint that converts rust to a paintable surface.


But yeah I have only bought 1 cam at full price and it was an awful custom grind I made up myself then I realized it would be terrible and I sold it for nothing lol. All my other cams have been stuff I bought used except the most recent custom grind I had a buddy spec for me and got me the homie hookup through texas speed because he's a dealer for them. SO yeah I'm and cheapskate

The best advice I have is to wait for Black Friday and scoop up a TSP or BTR grind for 50 or 100 off they usually have a good sale.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Honestly I just don't know what I am looking at with cam specs. I understand the geometry just not how it behaves in a motor.

I know big lift means beig top end power but don't know how to build low end power looking at cam specs :/

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[Matthew Jeschke]

speaking of being cheap. summit has cheapest LS7 style lifters in house brand. Not sure who makes these... it maybe they are a name brand just private labeled. or if I steer clear.

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[Dantheman1540]

What are the cam specs in your vette?

 

[Tonyrodz]

I have the stock 3.73 gears as well

I called up Summit Racing and ordered:

• Federal Mogal rering kit. Engine builder suggested any old cheapo kit off eBay, however, I wanted a trusted name though, so spent another $100 over eBay.
  
  
• Melling Timing chain set - Interestingly was ready to pull trigger on double roller, but guy at summit talked me out of it. Said there would be no point. Similar to what the engine builder said too.
  
  
• Head bolts - I got GM Performance parts one. Was half the price of ARP, although really like ARP stuff.

I had him suggest a CAM that wouldn't sacrifice any power. For a little while I'll be running stock 4L60E and converter, until I can get the new transmission build. But hate to sacrifice just for that. He suggested this cam but not sure I'm really big on it:

• COMP Cams XFI RPM 54-408-11 HERE Mainly it's really expensive and kind of a mild cam. I wonder if you pay for the brand name with COMP?
  
  
• BTR Stuff seems to be very reasonably priced and I like that I can buy matched kits for a little more than the price of that one cam so they are top of my list. I also stumbled across this...
  
  @Tonyrodz I LOVE THE SOUND OF YOUR CAM!!! I remember video you shared Did you get a built transmission or are you still running stock w/ new converter?
  
  
• Trick Flow TrackMax cam HOT ROD ARTICLE trick flow page HERE I originally had my sights set on the trick flow sloppy stage 2. But this cam looks like a good contender too and is reasonably priced as well. Only thing is I think the LQ9 pistons bring me to 10.1:1 compression this cam spec says 10.5:1 minimum.

MPG and Torque are important to me. I'll be doing lots of distance driving... However, would also love to have bragging rights of a 500 HP engine haha (even if that's theoretical stripped of all accessories to claim the rights) haha... I remember the days when big numbers were 300 HP.

With all the mods done I had a 3k Circle D installed, with a stock trans. Needless to say it didn't last very long. The 1st time I raced someone(An Acura--I beat him lol)I got over 100 mph. I slowed down, stepped on the gas--Nothing.
I now have a semi built trans, with some heavy duty internals, shift kit and Vette servo. Shifts great. I don't know how you drive, but I'd recommend getting a beefed up trans.
Listen to these shifts...

Def get a trans cooler.
Some **** for ya...

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

With all the mods done I had a 3k Circle D installed, with a stock trans. Needless to say it didn't last very long. The 1st time I raced someone(An Acura--I beat him lol)I got over 100 mph. I slowed down, stepped on the gas--Nothing.
I now have a semi built trans, with some heavy duty internals, shift kit and Vette servo. Shifts great. I don't know how you drive, but I'd recommend getting a beefed up trans.
Listen to these shifts...

Def get a trans cooler.
Some **** for ya...

"drooling" while watching you burn rubber in your mirror!

My vette is 1999 FRC. My plan was to get a tinker car to build up. I bought it in 2006. Thing is guy I bought it from built it up a bit already and traction limited in 4th gear is enough for me rt now haha it has

C5 Z06 wheels
C5 Z06 exhaust (or flowmaster?)
LS7 camshaft
Patriot Heads (not sure which castings)
Cold Air Intake
Pretty powerful sound system (12" vega sub)
4.10 gears
m6 transmission
Professional tune done by GM engineer (he was writing tunes for engines at gm but left as was making more money doing it on side)

I think that is it. I met the tuner. He gave me ride in twin turbo C5 Z06. Traction limited in all gears haha. 650rwph... just bolted turbos on and tuned.

He had similar 1000 HP automatic transmission C5 sub 10s quarter. Twin turbos and tune. Maybe a built 4L60 as well...? but mostly stock otherwise.

They put me onto turbo company they used nearly bought a turbo setup but didnt like idea of cutting frame etc etc to get it to fit. I thing was TTS turbo systems? I spoke with their tech for a while. Also looked into supercharger for it... Thats when I bought HP tuner system as I was going to do that. Then I moved bought big house and lost my job.

7 years later I bought this junker tahoe and is much more fun to tinker with. beside vette is already MORE than fast enough.

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[Tonyrodz]

speaking of being cheap. summit has cheapest LS7 style lifters in house brand. Not sure who makes these... it maybe they are a name brand just private labeled. or if I steer clear.

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I used these in my build. Cheaper in price.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G8M28BG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_6CjTFb08QM779?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Okay now I am probablybbn overthinking this haha... so I studied theblifter failures.

First the plastic guides are required to keep the lifter from spinning. I don't recall how my LT1 managed that...

I have found several examples on Youtube of ppl who had a lifter spin, it spun because guides broke. I would think this is the main cause of failure?

I wonder how long those lifters last with the link between them? I imagine very luttle oil gets on those linkages... Maybe plastic holds up longer?

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[Matthew Jeschke]

These seem to be the top shelf lifters haha Johnson 2110 Drop in lifters. They have larger roller, tighter manufacturing tolerances, and less susceptible to lifter knock, but are $$$$. HERE

No I remember on my LT1 they had a metal guide that went over the top of the lifter instead of the plastic trays that go in LS. Kind of spooky with a plastic part in the motor ?

 

[Dantheman1540]

If I'm not mistaken that LS7 cam is really designed to make more topend power, great driveability, and sound pretty much stock. Definitely an improvement over the stock LS1 cam tho.

4.10s in a vette no wonder it blows the tires off! I need to get something light weight one of these days.

I thought the plastic lifter trays were an awful idea when I first saw them but I've disassembled a few high mile LSs now and haven't seen any issues with the trays in any of them. Although I do change them every time in case me messing with them has caused the old likely brittle plastic to have micro cracks.

I had LS7s in my Silverados supercharged 6.0 for about 3 months before I tore the motor apart due to an unrelated issue. It's going back together with the johnson lifters if I remember right. I got my LS7s from TSP but I think they are all out of stock now.

 

[S33k3r]

This guy's videos might be helpful to you:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8uf_zVTV63l1-uRSx6XbnQ

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

@S33k3r k3r I think I've watched about every Richard Holdener video on the LS He's pretty helpful guy!

@dantheman are those the 2110 LS Drop in Johnson lifters? I'm really tempted to order those as they appear indestructible. The trays do have my very nervous, but then again my truck has 240,000 miles on this motor (assuming wasn't swapped before), and trays still hold lifters perfectly. I prefer the older style metal guides though. This plastic stuff makes me nervous!

I have a few couple cams on the list right now. I'm looking for ones that build power across the whole power curve.

• Comp Cams 54-469-11
  Reviewed HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE
  Pros: Power everywhere big w/ big gains down low.
  Cons: Really expensive & designed for newer rectangular port heads
  
  
• Trick Flow TrackMax #30602003 aka sloppy stage 2 cam
  Reviewed HERE & HERE | Manufacturer Page HERE | Sold HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, reviews claim power up across entire range
  Cons: Suggests 10.5:1 compression ratio my build is 10.0:1
  
  
• Brian Tooley Torque Truck Cam 30202111R1
  Cannot find review I watched was by Holdener | Manufacturer Page / Sales Page HERE
  Pros: Inexpensive, no loss down low gain up high
  Cons: mild gains
  
  
• LS9 factory camshaft (likely just rumor)
  Cannot find any review | Sold HERE
  Pros: Very inexpensive. Told but cannot confirm, builds power everywhere?
  Cons: Cam sensor has to be relocated to timing cover.

I see they make cams specific to trucks. However, I can find NO reviews on them. Everybody just looks at peak horse power :/ I really don't know how to spec a camshaft, would help greatly if there were some lessons on how to spec camshafts for particular goal.

 

[Dantheman1540]

Honestly don't know exactly what part number the Johnsons are I'm letting the engine shop work out those details.

That first cam is very aggressive. Its almost exactly what my buddy has in his 408ci stroker denali. It's a monster cam that sounds like it belongs in a drag race vette and has been a PITA to tune. IMO I'd go smaller.

A good sort of range that will help dictate cam driveability is this.

This is based on duration.
Below 209 stockish
210-219 extremely driveable little sound great towing
220-229 hot rod sound but no loss of driveability
230-239 race truck
240+ full blow race not for street.


Don't take that as 100% fact but when it comes to tuning a cam for driveability that's based on a scale I've seen tossed on HPtuners forum before.