Desperate help/ only vehicle

[mikez71]

Odd.. Was starter loose feeling at least? Since you can crank it now....
Seems like lifter failure should not have stopped engine from cranking before?
(especially since you hand cranked it...)

Normally they can start/run the motor with 1 collapsed lifter, but not sure that's the case here..

Maybe two separate issues after sitting? What are the chances...

Sorry for your situation... Hoping we can help you get through this..

 

[j91z28d1]

Ever HEARD of it happening, from a reputable source?

one recently jumped off the gear in one driving down the highway. it was a hybrid 6.0 but should all be he same. he's doing youtube videos on the repair. bent valves and all that. said he hit a bump on the highway and it just cut off.

I want to say under 200k on it too. can only guess the guide didn't guide

 

[j91z28d1]

Sorry about the tough situation. AFM cylinders are 1,4 6 and 7. #2 is not an AFM cylinder and typically will not fail at least not like the AFM cylinders can fail.

I would verify for sure that you are testing #2 and not Number 1 cylinder.

Cylinders 1,3,5 and 7 are on the DRIVER side of the engine. 2,4, 6 and 8 are on the Passenger side.

1 and 2 are at the front, 7 and 8 are back by the firewall.

If you are actually having trouble with #1 it is an AFM cylinder.

If the lifter is stuck down the rocker arms will be very loose and very noisy.

The only real repair is to remove the cylinder head and install a new lifter.

There is a company, Crazed Performance, I think out of Texas that makes a tool to unlock the bad lifter and let it open or pop up into proper working position again. I own one of these tools and have used it twice now. It works to unlock the AFM lifter. You still have to pull the manifold and valve covers off to reach the stuck lifter and fix it. There are Youtube videos out showing how. After releasing the stuck lifter you would need to have the AFM disabled or it might stick again soon after the repair. There are many options to disable the AFM system available.

Hope this helps or at least gives you an option. The two I fixed using this tool and a AFM disable are still out there running well 2-3 years later.

having no place to work on it and needing it quickly. I think this is worth a try. after releasing the lifter, if it is the correct cyl number. unplug the oil pressure sensor till afm gets turned off. at least you can drive it with the warning light on.

 

[mikez71]

Earlier he said rockers were moving great... missed seeing it the first time maybe?

Did the engine sound OK when you bumped it over?

Maybe timing jumped first time he started it up when he heard the ticking?
Then trying to start it again with valve resting on piston collapsed the lifter. (Or timing jumped more)
Nah, he hand cranked it after that and didn't feel any interference.. ? idk..

 

[OR VietVet]

Extremely doubtful given he has turned the engine and all the parts moving as intended

Exactly.

 

[OR VietVet]

Ever HEARD of it happening, from a reputable source?

Yes....me.

 

[thefrey]

If you have a collapsed lifter, you will be able to grab ahold of the rocker and move it freely like this:

I had a lifter collapse on me and used the lifter release trick. I was able to drive it for another 15k miles with no issues (using a range afm disabler as well) and probably could have gone longer. I ended up doing a mechanical DOD delete.

I bought the kit from Crazed Performance’s website (same guy who made the attached video)

Confirm it is a collapsed AFM lifter before moving forward. Any videos or pictures will help us to help you

 

[mikez71]

Ever HEARD of it happening, from a reputable source?

Yes....me.

I think he was agreeing with you there.
(Chain shouldn't break just sitting or at startup?)

Can a loose chain jump timing at startup? Seems unlikely..
(I lived in timing BELT world for most of my life..)

 

[j91z28d1]

Earlier he said rockers were moving great... missed seeing it the first time maybe?

Did the engine sound OK when you bumped it over?

Maybe timing jumped first time he started it up when he heard the ticking?
Then trying to start it again with valve resting on piston collapsed the lifter. (Or timing jumped more)
Nah, he hand cranked it after that and didn't feel any interference.. ? idk..

yeah I saw him say everything was moving too. but easy to miss while trying to hand. turn the engine? I don't know.

some bad luck to happen during the first start after replacing the sensor and new valve cover gaskets.

 

[hagar]

Did it sound like it was missing when it made the noise and you shut it down? The plug in for the dod system is right beside the plug in for the oil pressue sensor. Any fault in that plug in connection and the truck will default into 4 cylinder mode right at start up.
I can't see why that would cause a loud bang, but its at least something else to put out there to add into the possible theories on what happened. Like if it defaulted into 4 cylinder mode at first start up, then stuck a lifter because of it.

 

[Goldwing2000]

Other than everything everyone has already mentioned, the only thing that comes to mind for me is a cracked flexplate. It could cause a smack sound when it cracks and would definitely cause a loud tick when running. Unfortunately, that's a ****** repair to do on your back but at least it's relatively inexpensive.
Doesn't explain the non-moving rocker but that could be an AFM thing.

 

[Marky Dissod]

40+ years in the shops and I have never seen a timing chain break in a driveway or at start up, especially if was running just fine when shut off, and no previous noises.
Doesn't mean it cannot happen.

Ever HEARD of it happening, from a reputable source?

Yes ... me.

I think he was agreeing with you there.
(Chain shouldn't break just sitting or at startup?)

Can a loose chain jump timing at startup? Seems unlikely ...
(I lived in timing BELT world for most of my life ...)

Agreeing with him, also asking if he'd heard it had happened from anyone ELSE he trusts, for statistical purposes.

Most people tend to bet against 'Black Swan' events or 'Blue Lobster' events, but the metaphors do not track perfectly.
A black swan is just a black swan, pretty much the same for a blue lobster, they're just rare. (Even chimerical lobsters taste the same, they just cost more to eat.)
Black Swan events, on the other hand ... nearly always wise to bet against a Blue Lobster event ...
... but when they actually happen - like when lower Manahttan got flooded, for example - you wish you'd guarded against it, if such a thing were possible.

 

[mikez71]

Did it sound like it was missing when it made the noise and you shut it down? The plug in for the dod system is right beside the plug in for the oil pressue sensor. Any fault in that plug in connection and the truck will default into 4 cylinder mode right at start up.
I can't see why that would cause a loud bang, but its at least something else to put out there to add into the possible theories on what happened. Like if it defaulted into 4 cylinder mode at first start up, then stuck a lifter because of it.

Along the same lines.. Leaky vlom?

Cranking by hand doesn't pressurize oil.. rocker moved normally.
Cranking with starter pressurizes, and leaky vlom solenoid disengages lifter?

 

[thefrey]

Cranking with starter pressurizes, and leaky vlom solenoid disengages lifter?

I think that this would be the other way around if I'm not mistaken. You need positive oil pressure to collapse the lifter, so a leaky vlom wouldn't cause a collapse.

I also say this b/c when I uncollapsed my lifter, I cut the gaskets on the VLOM (the ones over the towers) so there was no chance of oil pressure building up accidentally and causing a lifter to collapse.

 

[mikez71]

I think that this would be the other way around if I'm not mistaken. You need positive oil pressure to collapse the lifter, so a leaky vlom wouldn't cause a collapse.

I also say this b/c when I uncollapsed my lifter, I cut the gaskets on the VLOM (the ones over the towers) so there was no chance of oil pressure building up accidentally and causing a lifter to collapse.

My fault, I meant leaky VLOM solenoid.
Ticking he heard being 1 de-activated lifter. (Because 4 of them deact would have run real bad I suppose?)
I dunno if a crank or two would get pressure up anyways.. Just grasping at straws here..

 

[Don S]

Yes! Please!

Then, let us know how that starter feels in your hands when you remove it... (disconnect battery first)

I'm thinking the gear reduction jammed considering all the looseness I felt in my old starter..

Thx Mike for commenting. Tested starter at 2 stores and it’s fine. I did get it cranking over and saw no movement on 2 cylinder rocker. I’m homeless and need my vehicle. Divorce stripped me of every penny. Staying in truck. Worse times of my 62 years. I don’t need this too. Now to pull intake and heads I guess. At least get that far. Still lost on what happened. Just change the oil sending unit engine ticked afterwards, shut off, hit key, heard smack. Here we are, no vehicle.

Sorry about the tough situation. AFM cylinders are 1,4 6 and 7. #2 is not an AFM cylinder and typically will not fail at least not like the AFM cylinders can fail.

I would verify for sure that you are testing #2 and not Number 1 cylinder.

Cylinders 1,3,5 and 7 are on the DRIVER side of the engine. 2,4, 6 and 8 are on the Passenger side.

1 and 2 are at the front, 7 and 8 are back by the firewall.

If you are actually having trouble with #1 it is an AFM cylinder.

If the lifter is stuck down the rocker arms will be very loose and very noisy.

The only real repair is to remove the cylinder head and install a new lifter.

There is a company, Crazed Performance, I think out of Texas that makes a tool to unlock the bad lifter and let it open or pop up into proper working position again. I own one of these tools and have used it twice now. It works to unlock the AFM lifter. You still have to pull the manifold and valve covers off to reach the stuck lifter and fix it. There are Youtube videos out showing how. After releasing the stuck lifter you would need to have the AFM disabled or it might stick again soon after the repair. There are many options to disable the AFM system available.

Hope this helps or at least gives you an option. The two I fixed using this tool and a AFM disable are still out there running well 2-3 years later.

Very nice of you to care enough to share this info. Let me say it’s the 3rd rocker from the front of the engine on the passenger side. So it’s number 4 not 2. Thx for clarifying that in my head.
Not to go on and on about my situation but I’m disabled, recent divorce took every penny from me at 61. I’ve been living in my truck a year now. I’ve owned it almost 9 years and you can not hear this motor when it’s running.
I simply changed the oil sending unit to stop the oil leak. Only logical guess I can come up with is that air got into the system somehow. I fired it up but it started lifter ticking in which my mind was freaking out. I shut it off after I saw the oil pressure come up to 50. Then I hit the key to restart it and heard a loud smack. I never tried cranking it again until I tore it down, pulled plugs and tired motor by hand a whole bunch and it was perfectly smooth. The I hit the key and with motor spinning faster I saw that rocker not moving.
I apologize if you’ve already seen this info.
I have found videos on YouTube where guy pulls covers off the valley and uses a metal rod with a 45 angle and uses his air stippler with attachment removed and gives the rod quick burst of pulse and then the pushrod goes flying to get it unstuck. If I were to do that is it going to happen again as quick as I restart it?
Sorry to really bother you but would I have to have any work done to the heads if I pull them and put in new lifters? Or just do the passenger side?
It’s my only way to get to Dr appts and such. So desperately need it going. I’m nearly half dead from trying to do the work I have done. I was told pull exhaust manifold out with head. Is that your advice?
Right now I haven’t pulled the intake yet. I don’t have fuel tool to release fuel line but I do know the fuel rails all come off with intake at once. I think I just have to remove alternator.
One more thing. Sorry. If my incident happened as described I would think I would have to get I to replacing cam etc. Your thoughts? If I can pull head, replace lifters, new gaskets on heads, torque down and get back driving. That would be nice.
Let me add, I’ve never known this truck to go into fuel saving mode. It always said it was in v8 mode. I assume someone bypassed the afm before I bought it at 130k and now it’s at 335k and I’ve never had to touch it. I’d say it would still be running flawlessly if I hadn’t decided to change oil sending unit.
Thx again for the help.

 

[Don S]

My fault, I meant leaky VLOM solenoid.
Ticking he heard being 1 de-activated lifter. (Because 4 of them deact would have run real bad I suppose?)
I dunno if a crank or two would get pressure up anyways.. Just grasping at straws here..

It was indeed running really rough the first time I started it back up and heard the lifter and turned it back off after pressure came up to 50.

 

[Don S]

if possible for clarification mark the rocker in some manner and upload a photo of the general area.
cyl 2 is passenger side front.
View attachment 478599

It’s dead rocker on passenger side 3rd back from front of engine, so it’s number 4 cylinder. Sorry, my mistake.

 

[West 1]

Ok, this is more clear now. #4 is an AFM cylinder. Your lifter is stuck.

If money is an issue and urgency I would certainly use the Crazed Performance method to pop the lifter back up. The tool they have works. I have done it on two engines and both ran like new afterwards but in both cases I had to disable the AFM. As someone already said you can pull a fuse or disconnect a wire to do that for free.

The manifold comes off pretty easy as does the lower VLOM manifold to access the lifter and pop it. It has been 3 or 4 years since I did the last one so I don't remember if the manifold absolutely has to come off or if you could free the lifter just by removing the valve cover. The video should give you ideas. Edit: watched the crazed performance video as a reminder. The Intake manifold and VLOM manifold both need to come off for this repair. 1 important note I had also forgot. Once you release the stuck lifter you must lock it back in proper lock position before you reassemble the engine. The video clearly shows how to do that also.

Who knows why it stuck this time but once they have stuck down they will stick again. Do not know how soon that is a crap shoot. I would disable the AFM and move on. Best of luck with this repair.

You might have a bent push rod or even a damaged rocker arm, maybe the loud noise you heard? be sure to inspect it, just roll it on some flat glass and you will see flat or bent in a second. The cam will be fine. The guys who ruin the cam keep driving while the lifter is bad and beat up the cam lobe. If you shut it down soon after the noise you have no problem with the cam.

 

[Doubeleive]

It’s dead rocker on passenger side 3rd back from front of engine, so it’s number 4 cylinder. Sorry, my mistake.

I would try and unstick it, that's going to be the cheapest route.