Input or advice from others on cam swap for 6.2L 2011 Yukon Denali
- Thread starter Denaliz
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OP
OP
Denaliz
Full Access Member
Wanted to get some thoughts on keeping the VVT from you guys.
Mentioned earlier TSP was all out against the VVT below was their replies about my wanting to keep
I would not. It will not help any and will only hinder the build. This is based off dyno performance as well as real life input. It is best to delete it
Vvt Delete will not change how it drives at all. In a 6.0 and 6.2 the vvt does nothing. Deleting it simplifies the setup as well as tuning
Mentioned earlier TSP was all out against the VVT below was their replies about my wanting to keep
I would not. It will not help any and will only hinder the build. This is based off dyno performance as well as real life input. It is best to delete it
Vvt Delete will not change how it drives at all. In a 6.0 and 6.2 the vvt does nothing. Deleting it simplifies the setup as well as tuning
Their advice matches my experience with my 2012 6.2 perfectly which has a 3-bolt cam (no VVT). I don’t miss it. It still has more power throughout the range than the 6.2 in my 2007 that still has its original cam and VVT. I get to drive them back to back and I can tell you that I don’t miss VVT at all.
Bull. It only hinders you putting in a hawg ass cam. If you want better drivability, keep the VVT. You can tell mine is cammed but it isn’t obnoxious, works great with the stock converter, and makes great power. The 6.0 was always a dog off the line and the VVT in the 6.2 fixed that. There is no way you could convince me to delete the VVT or that it doesn’t do anything.
I did quite a bit of research (not real world testing like Geotrash) and decided
to keep VVT. I didn't have to replace the timing cover, etc which was a bonus...
From what I've seen, it does help with torque and will help a little with gas mileage
in the midrange.
Remember, that VVT in our 6.2 can only "retard" cam timing.. So basically
the ecm retards a "small" cam up top for more HP in upper range and also
retards cam timing in the midrange (cruising) which helps MPG in those areas.
So when going with a "bigger" cam, always go small as the VVT will give you back
the upper HP of a big cam without killing the bottom end power..
There is a reason the ALL the OEM's use VVT in some manner
Disadvantages of VVT IMO: you'll need to add a "limiter" to your cam phaser - not that hard..
You'll want to do a correct "tune" to change the VVT #'s in the ECM - not that hard
as you'll have to "tune" for ANY cam change anyway.
And make sure you use the correct valve springs (not a disadvantage, but critical to choose correctly)
to keep VVT. I didn't have to replace the timing cover, etc which was a bonus...
From what I've seen, it does help with torque and will help a little with gas mileage
in the midrange.
Remember, that VVT in our 6.2 can only "retard" cam timing.. So basically
the ecm retards a "small" cam up top for more HP in upper range and also
retards cam timing in the midrange (cruising) which helps MPG in those areas.
So when going with a "bigger" cam, always go small as the VVT will give you back
the upper HP of a big cam without killing the bottom end power..
There is a reason the ALL the OEM's use VVT in some manner
Disadvantages of VVT IMO: you'll need to add a "limiter" to your cam phaser - not that hard..
You'll want to do a correct "tune" to change the VVT #'s in the ECM - not that hard
as you'll have to "tune" for ANY cam change anyway.
And make sure you use the correct valve springs (not a disadvantage, but critical to choose correctly)
OP
OP
Denaliz
Full Access Member
You are welcome to your opinion and I won't try to change your mind, so I'm responding here for the benefit of the OP so that he has the complete picture. I stand by my analysis.
1/ The 6.0 has a significantly different head design than the 6.2 (e.g. cathedral intake ports vs rectangular) which means the flow dynamics are different. So what applies to the 6.0 doesn't necessarily apply to the 6.2. Most of the advantage that the 6.2 has comes from its head and associated intake design. This is also why my first and second cam swaps didn't generate the gains of my third - I was buying cams that were optimized for the cathedral port engines and while compatible with the 6.2, they were not optimized for it. For my third, I bought a 6.2-specific cam.
2/ For larger than stock cams, you end up having to limit VVT operation to about 12-15 degrees of total rotation (~5 degrees advance and 8-10 degrees retard) so its benefits diminish the further you get from a stock cam. The benefit to VVT on a stock cam is about 15 lb ft on the low end, and decreases as you progressively limit its range of operation. There is a sweet spot between VVT effect and cam "size" so that is the more salient question, I believe.
3/ In a pushrod engine, there is no way to vary the intake and exhaust cam rotation independently. On DOHC engine designs, it is possible to vary them separately which leads to much greater gains in both power and efficiency, which is why it became so common in the market and became part of the marketing and differentiation strategy of other brands - you could FEEL the difference. But on a pushrod V8, I believe its benefit is more marketing than reality and benefits fuel economy more than driving experience.
To each their own, but for my needs and if I had it to do all over again, I would still not worry about retaining VVT on a 6.2.
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I know this is a old post but I’m in the same situation as OP and I’m struggling on what cam to choose for my L94, I originally picked out the TSP L92 stage 2 VVT cam and everyone’s been suggesting ditching the VVT and now reading this just makes it even more frustrating. The trucks my DD I pull a fishing boat and do short road trips. Do you still like the TSP VVT cams how are the springs holding up?
I have done a few more since, still love them. I have never in my life had a spring fail on any of the supplied tsp PAC springs. I use them on cars pushing over 7 thousand rpms as well. I have personally installed traditional delete cams in 6.2s, and stand solidly by my statement that the vvt Cams are super awesome for the heavy trucks.
I’m still leaning hard towards the TSP L92 stage 2, it says it’s okay with the stock converter. Are they hard to tune with HP Tuners?
Funny you ask that, the only issue with that cam has been it trying to push through the stock converter at idle in drive, and coming back down to idle like when you slow down for a stop light. I get around it by dropping the timing down at idle in drive and also while coasting down. Basically just trying to kill some torque by lowering the timing in those ranges. That is the only issue, everything else dials in super nice, tsp gives you the cam timing numbers they optimized to keep the cam in the sweet spot at various ranges. There is no side effect of lowering the timing for towing or drivability, it is purely in zero throttle range. The second you touch the throttle, it moves exactly like you would expect.
If is probably the opposite problem of what you were thinking when you asked about the converter. It makes too much power at idle and coast down and tries to push through, it doesn't have a problem with getting into the power like you traditionally worry about the converter for. Stab it off the line, and it pulls WAY harder down low than stock.
Man… this sounds EXACTLY like what I want… Does still give the lopey big cam sound? I’ve gotten so many recommendations to ditch the VVT and you completely resold me in the original idea going with the TSP L92 VVTStage 2… I’ve been stressing over this for the last week and I was about to just say F’it and order a Truck Norris cam and be done with it… thanks bro
I do this for a living and get tons of feedback, all positive. I am doing a stage 3 l92 vvt right now in a regular cab short box, it should be an absolute freak for what it is, being a little 2 wheel drive.
It still sounds like a nice size cam, don't worry at all about that. It is for sure more on the aggressive side than the tiny cam side, it is very noticeable.
It really makes sense when you think about it. Racers have been installing cams advance or retarded for years, depending on tracks and the power range they are looking for. Traditional cams are a middle of the road as a default, then cam designers make them more advanced for heavy vehicles, and more retarded for lightweight vehicles that need less help getting going.
With these cams you start off fully advanced off idle, then it progressely retards the cam on a slope, all the way to when peak power is reached. You are getting the best of all 3 worlds.
That's why it tries to push through the converter, it is taking in so much more air at idle than a stock cam, but it isn't bleeding it off like a conventional cam does via the intake and exhaust open timing that is traditionally used in a fixed cam.
Oh, and beg borrow and steal to afford the drop on Johnson lifters, the risk is just too high these days with the Chinese stuff (all the other stuff.) There is a massive lifter problem from oem to aftermarket because they are all made in China. The Johnsons are American, 3 times the price, but the only way to sleep well after such a large job.
Sorry to keep adding, I keep remembering stuff. Last thing, don't use the tsp crank seal in their kit, it is horrible. Never had a problem with the gaskets in their name branded kits, but the crank seals have something wrong with them, so go gm for that.
Im sold, I’m putting in my order next week… I was just ripping on the truck a little on the way home just noticing it’s making all its power around 2500-4500 I assume the new cams going to maintain that same pattern? I lm planning on picking up a HP Tuner and doing the tune myself, I’m super tech savvy but is this doable for a total noob?
The cam picks up torque in those ranges, then pulls strong all the way to 6 grand, I set the over rev at around 6200 because of the intake manifold. If you have long tubes it will help up top to rev it out higher as well. The bottom end is safe to over 7 grand, and the valvetrain is good to around 6800 with the heavier l92 intake valves, so you just rev as high as you can until it stops making power, you will feel it fall off if street tuning, or see it on dyno.
Tuning is for sure not for a newbie, your 6 speed is tuned via torque. It used to be easy to tune the 4l80e and 4l60/70e stuff for newbies with a few simple blanket changes, but you can kill a 6 speed super duper quick once you change the actual delivered torque of the engine vs the conceived engine torque the transmission thinks is going on.
I don't do mail order tunes, but people seem happy with the black bear guy on here, or find a good local tuner. Make sure you resist the urge to go out and drive it without a base tune after its done. You can smoke the 6 speeds easier at part throttle if something is off , than at full throttle. It will at the very least, hit its max stock line pressure settings at full throttle after modded with no tune, but it will be capable of making much more torque at lower perceived delivered torque numbers,...then it overpowers the clutches.
I was thinking about skipping all their provided gaskets and getting oem replacements on rockauto. So don’t go with the Delphi lS7 lifters? I was hoping there was going to be room in the budget for some 1 7/8 long tube headers n Y pipe this is getting pricey
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