New Truck in Town vs GM Units

[cardude2000]

Ford only stopped selling the Excursion for two reasons, one was they were afraid that the vehicle was canabalizing sales from their diesel f250s which made more profit for them. Second was they put all their large SUVs eggs into the Expedition basket. They made a Max and then an EL to accommodate the people who wanted a bigger version. Sub 15mpg is not bad for the size of the vehicle and what it can do, the 7.3 Diesel and the 6.0 when the bugs were worked out returned much better numbers.

Terrible sales numbers and terrible gas mileage (coupled with rising gas prices) killed it.

To your point, thats why they ultimately doubled down on the Expedition. No need to market a thirsty monstrosity that nobody bought.

Not sure how a pick up would play into the decision to kill a nine person SUV? Would be interesting to hear why that played a role.

 

[UrbanSuburban]

Here in Ontario, Ford sold every single one of its Excursions, over 80 percent were sold with the two diesel variants so fuel prices and mileage did not play a big role. Ford did however express concern that some big fleet customers were choosing the Excursion over an F250 Diesel, and that concerned them for the amount of profit that was being lost. Expeditions both variants and the GM triplets all had crummy gas mileage. In Ontario the Excursion did have another issue however, because of its GVWR, it put it into CMV territory and you would need an annual inspection for it. Lastly, here as well, we have 5 dollar a gallon plus gas but it has not stopped anybody from driving their thirsty Rams, Sierras. Gas prices really are a non starter for most who drive these.

 

[15YUKON]

Towing Vid. Chevy did good. That Ford is way too expensive.

 

[cardude2000]

Towing Vid. Chevy did good. That Ford is way too expensive.

Good vid. “Expedition did better on the uphill suburban did better downhill”

A base Tahoe is more expensive than a base Expedition I think?

 

[15YUKON]

Good vid. “Expedition did better on the uphill suburban did better downhill”

A base Tahoe is more expensive than a base Expedition I think?

Pretty sure a base Tahoe is $47,000 The new expy is like $52k.

 

[cardude2000]

Pretty sure a base Tahoe is $47,000 The new expy is like $52k.

I was wrong. Tahoe is 49k expy is 52k.

‘Way’ too expensive seems a little overboard to describe the difference in price. To be fair I have no idea which base vehicle comes better equipped. Though the ford has the more powerful engine and 10 speed trans.

 

[Mattsred03]

What do they need in your opinion? More horses? More torque? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interior? More interior room? Better gas mileage? Better options packages and electronics?

Ford or Chevy? Ford's need to stop putting all their faith in that turbo 6. People are starting to put goose necks on half ton pick-ups because the truck CAN tow it. But just because it can, doesn't mean it should. If you need to tow 6,000+ pounds of trailer, get at least a 3/4 ton truck. There is a reason theybdont put those twin turbo 3.5's in super duty. Same applies to the Expedition. If you have a travel trailer that weighs that much, why did you get an Expedition to pull it. Sure the Ecoboost CAN pull it, but should you? I know I know, what if you have a 6 person family? Can't put that in a pickup. That's why there is a market for 3/4 ton full size SUVs. But, Ford for years was behind the GMT's and that's why they never sold as well considering they were biased off the best selling pick-up.
Chevy on the other hand has to do something to combat the fuel economy of a turbo 6. Maybe this 10 speed will address that but that remains to be seen.
Both vehicles are good for what they are, it comes down to preference. I like the ride of my Tahoe. However, the wife drives a 14 Lincoln MKS so I know what the blue oval is capable of. I just think once again Ford didn't aim to surpass the Chevy, they only shot to catch up leaving room to once again fall quickly behind. Because Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, all compete in that segment too. Playing catch up isn't enough. Welcome to 2017 form 2000 Ford. Now what?

 

[Mattsred03]

Again have to disagree I drove both man. The Expedition is a truck, always has been. It’s always had the Super Duty interior hard plastics, rode like a truck, sounded like a truck. Ford sold less because they are more trucky and less friendly. They don’t have all the bells and whistles they are simple machines. IMO the 03-17 Expeditions were good trucks no they weren’t flashy, no they weren’t fancy and didn’t have the front end these do, but they are good in their own way. A simple and reliable way. As far as taking on the 2500 suburban..... Excurision 6.0L all that needs it be said

Agree to disagree. Yes they were good for what they are, but I believe that people don't buy these types of vehicles to ride like a truck. They want the ride and the room and they want all the bells and whistles too. And as far as an Excursion, what Excursion? There aren't even any plans for it. It's not even a thought on the table at Ford. Chevy already makes a government/military 2500 Suburban. Wouldn't be hard to put a nicer interior in it and call it an LTZ.

 

[cardude2000]

Ford or Chevy? Ford's need to stop putting all their faith in that turbo 6. People are starting to put goose necks on half ton pick-ups because the truck CAN tow it. But just because it can, doesn't mean it should. If you need to tow 6,000+ pounds of trailer, get at least a 3/4 ton truck. There is a reason theybdont put those twin turbo 3.5's in super duty. Same applies to the Expedition. If you have a travel trailer that weighs that much, why did you get an Expedition to pull it. Sure the Ecoboost CAN pull it, but should you? I know I know, what if you have a 6 person family? Can't put that in a pickup. That's why there is a market for 3/4 ton full size SUVs. But, Ford for years was behind the GMT's and that's why they never sold as well considering they were biased off the best selling pick-up.
Chevy on the other hand has to do something to combat the fuel economy of a turbo 6. Maybe this 10 speed will address that but that remains to be seen.
Both vehicles are good for what they are, it comes down to preference. I like the ride of my Tahoe. However, the wife drives a 14 Lincoln MKS so I know what the blue oval is capable of. I just think once again Ford didn't aim to surpass the Chevy, they only shot to catch up leaving room to once again fall quickly behind. Because Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz, all compete in that segment too. Playing catch up isn't enough. Welcome to 2017 form 2000 Ford. Now what?

So what does ford need to jump ahead (of the Tahoe)?

More horsepower? More torque? Better gas mileage? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interiors?

 

[swathdiver]

The Big Three and all Americans really need to get the government to rescind those ridiculous emissions requirements so consumers can buy 1/2-ton trucks with diesels in them again.

The onerous regulations on the 3/4-ton and higher trucks must be lifted as well. The tree huggers are not helping the environment, they're ignorantly enriching the fatcats at everyone's expense.

Every Ford truck I ever drove or owned drove like a truck compared with a GM product. Had two same year 1-ton duallys, one Ford and one Chevrolet with stake beds. The Chevy was a joy to drive, smoother ride and more maneuverable and its engine didn't seem to work so hard and was nowhere near as noisy as that 5.4. The Ford's cabin was appreciated for its extra depth so my gut would clear the steering wheel, but it road like an old Mack going down the road, gas mileage was about the same too!

My Yukon XL whips around like a car, in and out of smallish parking spaces and through crowded parking lots with ease. The ride is great and we find it very comfortable to ride in.

 

[GTNator]

So what does ford need to jump ahead (of the Tahoe)?

More horsepower? More torque? Better gas mileage? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interiors?

That’s what it (Ford) has now with the 2018 Expedition/Navigator. It’s GM’s turn now to catch up, in my opinion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mattsred03]

...and if ford ever builds an Excursion again????

What Excursion? Its not even being talked about or considered at Ford. What if they build another Thunderbird? For now, they won't. It's a non-issue. The Suburban already exists in 2500 form for government/military special purchase only. They could launch civilian versions in a matter of weeks if they had to. But the Excursion is dead and for the foreseeable future, it will thankfully stay that way. The last version they made was 10 years too late to the party. Too little, too late. Ford is going to try to put the new Bronco against the Tahoe where it will fail in every category except off road. But like a Jeep, why do you buy one to keep it on the pavement? (Maybe not you, I'm not pointing at you specifically, but I digress) If the Excursion ever gets brought up at the conversation table at Ford, they are once again going to have to try to be at least as good as something that already exists by GM.

 

[cardude2000]

gas mileage was about the same too!.

uh huh.

Kind of like your 12MPG buick that you magically got '36MPG' with lol.

 

[Mattsred03]

So what does ford need to jump ahead (of the Tahoe)?

More horsepower? More torque? Better gas mileage? Higher towing capacity? Nicer interiors?

They will not jump ahead any time soon. Tahoe, Suburban, their GMC/Caddy brothers, Sequoia, QX, GL class all ride well enough that if you spend 12 hours in them, you don't feel beat up at the end of your drive. Ford needs to improve their ride.
Ford I believe is class leading in power so that doesn't even need to be brought up. It's how they develop that power and the longevity a boosted engine really has.
The interiors are purely preference. Some people rave about Sync and my touch. Others hate it. I think Chevy needs to improve too. MB GLs and Infinity QX handily beat Chevy and Ford. But that's a Navigator/Escalade comparo.
The mileage is fine. If you buy a full size SUV and your primary concern is fuel economy, why are you buying a modern land barge? This is probably why I'd make a terrible sales person. Fuel economy should be an after the fact bragging right in full size BOF SUVs.
The Ford's are fine. But the reason they won't pass the Tahoe is because Ford makes a product and sticks with it far too long. There have only been 4 changes to Mustang in the last 45 years. 4 to F-150 in 40 years. I could go on but you get my point. They are rarely class leading in anything because they don't innovate. Thanks for the moving assembly line. Every other time Ford tries to innovate, its usually a fail. Ecoboost is a sucess for now. But to beat your competition, you have to do everything it does better. For Tahoe, that's 250,000 miles of comfortable, relatively trouble free driving with enough features to keep a driver loving their car a little more every day. The ink isn't dry on the first sold 2018 Expeditions so it's hard to say if they will be preferred over Tahoe, but I doubt it. I think they aimed to be relevant again. There is nothing new or exciting about this new version. You may as well call it a new model instead of a new generation. Lincoln, you could likewise look at as a new upstart car company because they are doing everything completely different as evident in the Navigator and Contentential.
Maybe you prefer the Expedition. It looks nice. But then again, so does Tahoe, QX, Sequoia... It handles well thanks to a modern setup. So does Tahoe, QX... does it ride well? I don't know. Haven't driven one. Bit if Ford's past SUVs are in this new Expedition, then no. Did they fix the glitchy Sync system? Don't know. We'll find out in about a year.
What do they need to do to beat the Tahoe? It doesn't matter at the moment. They need to first make a vehicle that is worth a damn in its own segment. And on that point, so does the Nissan Armada. Then they can start fine tuning it to beat Tahoe.

 

[cardude2000]

They will not jump ahead any time soon. Tahoe, Suburban, their GMC/Caddy brothers, Sequoia, QX, GL class all ride well enough that if you spend 12 hours in them, you don't feel beat up at the end of your drive. Ford needs to improve their ride.
Ford I believe is class leading in power so that doesn't even need to be brought up. It's how they develop that power and the longevity a boosted engine really has.
The interiors are purely preference. Some people rave about Sync and my touch. Others hate it. I think Chevy needs to improve too. MB GLs and Infinity QX handily beat Chevy and Ford. But that's a Navigator/Escalade comparo.
The mileage is fine. If you buy a full size SUV and your primary concern is fuel economy, why are you buying a modern land barge? This is probably why I'd make a terrible sales person. Fuel economy should be an after the fact bragging right in full size BOF SUVs.
The Ford's are fine. But the reason they won't pass the Tahoe is because Ford makes a product and sticks with it far too long. There have only been 4 changes to Mustang in the last 45 years. 4 to F-150 in 40 years. I could go on but you get my point. They are rarely class leading in anything because they don't innovate. Thanks for the moving assembly line. Every other time Ford tries to innovate, its usually a fail. Ecoboost is a sucess for now. But to beat your competition, you have to do everything it does better. For Tahoe, that's 250,000 miles of comfortable, relatively trouble free driving with enough features to keep a driver loving their car a little more every day. The ink isn't dry on the first sold 2018 Expeditions so it's hard to say if they will be preferred over Tahoe, but I doubt it. I think they aimed to be relevant again. There is nothing new or exciting about this new version. You may as well call it a new model instead of a new generation. Lincoln, you could likewise look at as a new upstart car company because they are doing everything completely different as evident in the Navigator and Contentential.
Maybe you prefer the Expedition. It looks nice. But then again, so does Tahoe, QX, Sequoia... It handles well thanks to a modern setup. So does Tahoe, QX... does it ride well? I don't know. Haven't driven one. Bit if Ford's past SUVs are in this new Expedition, then no. Did they fix the glitchy Sync system? Don't know. We'll find out in about a year.
What do they need to do to beat the Tahoe? It doesn't matter at the moment. They need to first make a vehicle that is worth a damn in its own segment. And on that point, so does the Nissan Armada. Then they can start fine tuning it to beat Tahoe.

Ok so...For the 2018 Expediton to be better than the tahoe in a meaningful way, they need to make sure the 'ride' is good and make sure the interface isnt glitchy. (since they clearly have more power, more torque, better gas mileage, greater towing capacity and higher quality interiors).

I guess we'll have to see if their ride is any better than the bouncy as shit MRC equipped vehicles and the rock hard seats the GM's have today. I'm guessing 'yes', especially with 30 way adjustable seats but I have yet to drive one...Dealer wont have one until later this month.

 

[cardude2000]

4 to F-150 in 40 years.

Doesnt the F series outsell all other trucks by a large order of magnitude?

 

[15YUKON]

Ford doesn’t innovate? Have to disagree There, also sticking to a product probably means people like IT and it’s a success. The sequoia and armada aren’t even worth talking about they are so bad. Same with that ugly bubble infinity that thing is Maximum Ugly. You could give me a 2003 Expedition or Tahoe with 200,000 miles and I’d drive that before the infinity I sh*t you not. The only two that are truly in the suv game are Ford and GM. The foreign conpetition can’t even compete IMO.

 

[cardude2000]

Ford doesn’t innovate? Have to disagree There, also sticking to a product probably means people like IT and it’s a success. The sequoia and armada aren’t even worth talking about they are so bad. Same with that ugly bubble infinity that thing is Maximum Ugly. The only two that are truly in the suv game are Ford and GM.

Well to be fair, after inventing the segment (specifically with the navigator) Ford really sat on the expedition for a long time. But I couldn’t care less if Ford has the best SUV for the next decade, I’m just wondering if they’re going to have the best one next couple of years which is when I’ll probably be interested in upgrading.

 

[Mattsred03]

Ok so...For the 2018 Expediton to be better than the tahoe in a meaningful way, they need to make sure the 'ride' is good.

That shouldn't be an issue IMO as the current tahoe is shitshow from a ride comfort standpoint (between the awful MRC and the rock hard seats).

I agree on those seats. I miss the sofa seats they used to put in them. But I think they ride nice and handle road imperfections well as long as you skip the 22 inch wheels. It's hard to make anything ride nice with gigantic wheels. There's just not enough rubber between the road and the rim. But it's not just the ride. Why you got hung up on the ride, I don't know, but the Ford and Nissan both needed to not feel like a chuck wagon driving down a freshly paved road. Maybe this new version fixed that. It's the glitchy Sync system is another need for improvement. It's the cheap feeling interiors of 2017 they were using which would have been fine if this was 1995 is another. It was a frame that was born in 1996. They have to do just about everything better than anything 2017 or older. The 2018's just came out. I'm sure they are an improvement of old, I'm sure they are just fine, but with the new one, I don't think Ford went above and beyond the Tahoe. That article was on a top trim Ford on a course Ford picked vs what sounds like in that article a middle of the road LT Suburban. And that was one article. Maybe the 18 addressed all of the previous models short comings. Maybe it didn't. Like I said, I haven't driven one. But I guess we'll all find out the end of next year just what the people thought of the new Expedition. Im sure sales will be up, but I'm willing to bet it still won't beat Tahoe.

 

[cardude2000]

I agree on those seats. I miss the sofa seats they used to put in them. But I think they ride nice and handle road imperfections well as long as you skip the 22 inch wheels. It's hard to make anything ride nice with gigantic wheels. There's just not enough rubber between the road and the rim. But it's not just the ride. Why you got hung up on the ride, I don't know, but the Ford and Nissan both needed to not feel like a chuck wagon driving down a freshly paved road. Maybe this new version fixed that. It's the glitchy Sync system is another need for improvement. It's the cheap feeling interiors of 2017 they were using which would have been fine if this was 1995 is another. It was a frame that was born in 1996. They have to do just about everything better than anything 2017 or older. The 2018's just came out. I'm sure they are an improvement of old, I'm sure they are just fine, but with the new one, I don't think Ford went above and beyond the Tahoe. That article was on a top trim Ford on a course Ford picked vs what sounds like in that article a middle of the road LT Suburban. And that was one article. Maybe the 18 addressed all of the previous models short comings. Maybe it didn't. Like I said, I haven't driven one. But I guess we'll all find out the end of next year just what the people thought of the new Expedition. Im sure sales will be up, but I'm willing to bet it still won't beat Tahoe.

I picked up on ride because it was the only quantifiable thing that you brought up other than the glitchy interface.

Everything else, including Power, trailering capabilities, interior quality etc. are all materially better on the new Ford.

All of the reviews I’ve read so far, put it above and beyond the Tahoe.

As you said, it all remains to be seen. As a big fan of all things automotive, I hope Ford knocks this one out of the park and really brings GM to its knees. Nothing is better for Car lovers than super aggressive competitors in the marketplace.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk