Mild 6.0L Build Suggestions?

[Matthew Jeschke]

Some of you are probably following my post where I blew up my 5.3L. Just forcing me to do a long awaited upgrade I do a few things with truck I hope to enhance with the build:

1. Off-road / forest roads (no extreme rock crawling): however, lots of minimum / no maintenance roads. So must be extremely reliable build with good toque. Right now my 5.3L struggles a bit (probably more the torque converter) to do some of the trails I go on. I videoed one of our trips here http://keystoaz.com/bullspringsroad/
   
   
2. Road trips: I travel to Canada and go on some 5000+ mile road trips. Truck must get reasonably good gas mileage. I got 17 to 18 on highway with my 5.3L.
   
   
3. Ability to tow: I have a C5 corvette I want to do endurance racing with. However, I need a tow vehicle to pull enclosed car trailer. (Note I'm also building a 4L60E with better internals).
   
   
4. Make this a forever truck, or at least motor, transmission, and transfer case so I want to build to last so long as the green new deal isn't a real thing haha.

Some parts I currently have my sights on for the build:

• LQ4 / LQ9 / LS2 block 3rd Gen w/ factory crank (I don't think forged crank will make any difference for my build?)
  
  
• LQ9 rods and pistons
  
  
• Melling High Volume Oil Pump - I know you can modify the factory to do higher pressure, however, I want the volume to accompany the pressure.
  
  
• Bushing Trunnion Rebuild Kit - Removes the needle bearings, so no chance of dropping them in the motor HERE Pretty simple design, however, only a couple people make these? The price doesn't seem fitting of the product... Any cheaper places to buy them from?
  
  
• Stock 317 Heads I plan to polish the exhaust ports. Not sure I'll do a port job though (I have in the past) but bit worried I might muck it up.
  
  
• Sloppy Stage 2 Camshaft HERE - I see even with natural aspirated setup this makes more power / same power across entire power band. I'm just hoping it doesn't sacrifice a lot of fuel economy in the process? (I watch this guy's channel a lot. Here he found that to be the best cam in a shootout across several camshafts HERE)
  
  
• Valves, Springs? In my previous build I installed dual valve springs. I kind of like the idea of those as they have half the chance of dropping a valve due to broken spring (does that happen often?) I used them in my LT1 build. I don't want wildly stiff springs though. (The ones I put in my Camaro bent the valve spring compressor haha) What pressure is best? Also are the factory valves pretty tough? Do they ever snap off in high mileage applications? Should I upgrade factory valves?
  
  
• Timing gear and chain? This is what broke in my first build / LT1. I hope to find something reasonably priced and indestructible?
  
  
• Fasteners: I want to go with studs instead of bolts. Not sure if necessary with the power I make but double the holding power.
  
  
• Head Gaskets? what lasts the best?

Few questions:

Are the LS motors internally balanced (crankshaft)? If so do the rods and pistons have to be a matched set?

I have HP Tuners for my truck (and Corvette). I am not the best tuner though. Either way, I'll probably need a wide band O2 somewhere in my system? Last tune YEARS ago on OBDI LT1 was with regular O2 sensors, basically impossible. I ended up sending ECU off to somebody and got a mail order tune.

Anywhere I could possibly download an existing tune for 6.0L w/ various cams such as the one I am looking at?

 

[Dantheman1540]

That sounds like a really good list to me. The SS2 is very similar to my cam and I'd say it's still mild in a 6.0 which is good for off roading and tows like a beast, although i think there are better tow cams that might yield better mpg. The 317s aren't bad but I'd look at getting them milled a bit to bump up compression close to 11-1 if you don't mind running premium fuel.

Yes valve springs break and I 100% suggest duals.

Any of the MLS style head gaskets are good find one that raises comp ratio or gets you close to perfect quench.

Roller master makes good timing sets.

Studs are nice but not neccessary unless you run a lot of boost. You could save a few hundred dollars and do ARP bolts which would pay for the timing set.

You didn't mention lifters which are important and besides LS7 or Johnson I haven't heard of many other good brands to choose.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

That sounds like a really good list to me. The SS2 is very similar to my cam and I'd say it's still mild in a 6.0 which is good for off roading and tows like a beast, although i think there are better tow cams that might yield better mpg. The 317s aren't bad but I'd look at getting them milled a bit to bump up compression close to 11-1 if you don't mind running premium fuel.

Yes valve springs break and I 100% suggest duals.

Any of the MLS style head gaskets are good find one that raises comp ratio or gets you close to perfect quench.

Roller master makes good timing sets.

Studs are nice but not neccessary unless you run a lot of boost. You could save a few hundred dollars and do ARP bolts which would pay for the timing set.

You didn't mention lifters which are important and besides LS7 or Johnson I haven't heard of many other good brands to choose.

I plan to tear down my lifters and recondition them. I saw some stuff on how to do that

What other cams do you recommend?

Bit leery as to increasing compression as some places I go don't sell premium fuel... Specifically up in the mountains of Canada / montana.

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[Dantheman1540]

I plan to tear down my lifters and recondition them. I saw some stuff on how to do that

What other cams do you recommend?

Bit leery as to increasing compression as some places I go don't sell premium fuel... Specifically up in the mountains of Canada / montana.

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If you can't find steady premium then I agree 10 or maybe 10.5 is most I'd probably go . I haven't heard of reconditioning lifters but it certainly will help save some money. Theres a lot of theories on cams and I'm no pro I bought mine off someone for a totally different project that found it's way in this truck and it works well. However something custom spec from Roger Vinci or another cam pro would be best.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

If you can't find steady premium then I agree 10 or maybe 10.5 is most I'd probably go . I haven't heard of reconditioning lifters but it certainly will help save some money. Theres a lot of theories on cams and I'm no pro I bought mine off someone for a totally different project that found it's way in this truck and it works well. However something custom spec from Roger Vinci or another cam pro would be best.

Dude this Roger Vincius awesome. i may just have to call them up and get a custom grind cam

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[mb1500]

Looks like a good list, looking forward to seeing it come together. X2 on ARP.

 

[Dantheman1540]

Dude this Roger Vincius awesome. i may just have to call them up and get a custom grind cam

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Vinci is the only place I've seen MPG even mentioned on cam descriptions, so you should totally call and order one!

 

[S33k3r]

Why a 6.0 and not an 8.1?

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Why a 6.0 and not an 8.1?

Where can i find an 8.1 haha?

That said MPG is important to me. I will be doing tens of thousands of miles in roadtrips

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[Matthew Jeschke]

I found a block with machine work completed cam bearings installed and ready to assemble. they will include the LQ9 pistons and rods. They want $1000

Then I use my crankshaft.
and parts I order to upgrade.

Seems to be a okay deal?

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[Dantheman1540]

I found a block with machine work comoleted cam bearings installed and ready to assemble. they will include the LQ9 pistons and rods. They want $1000

Then I use my crankshaft.
and parts I order to upgrade.

Seems to be a okay deal?

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Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I felt like a kid in the candy store. Picked up the 6.0 block today. Guy was is an engine builder in Los Cruses, NM. He had all the cool stuff in his shop and was like a rolling encyclopedia of knowledge and experience on engine building. His friend was there who listed the block on facebook and they were building an engine for him. Chevy 350 with roots style blower and two massive cathedral style 4 barrel carbs on it.

He sold me the LQ4 cam, LQ9 (full float rods), LQ4 pistons, prepped and ready 6.0 Block, and a wind-age tray for $950. Not a steal but not too bad a deal either. I'm not sure what cam I want to use but he threw it in. They all swear by the LS9 cam but requires some cam sensor hackery to get it working as well as a custom tune. I have software to tune truck but know enough that it's a PITA to tune.

Only blooper was I went to get the block out of my trunk, and the damn engine hoist fell over and punched a hole in the back of my good car I'm now doing a little body work to fix it.

 

[Tonyrodz]

I felt like a kid in the candy store. Picked up the 6.0 block today. Guy was is an engine builder in Los Cruses, NM. He had all the cool stuff in his shop and was like a rolling encyclopedia of knowledge and experience on engine building. His friend was there who listed the block on facebook and they were building an engine for him. Chevy 350 with roots style blower and two massive cathedral style 4 barrel carbs on it.

He sold me the LQ4 cam, LQ9 (full float rods), LQ4 pistons, prepped and ready 6.0 Block, and a wind-age tray for $950. Not a steal but not too bad a deal either. I'm not sure what cam I want to use but he threw it in. They all swear by the LS9 cam but requires some cam sensor hackery to get it working as well as a custom tune. I have software to tune truck but know enough that it's a PITA to tune.

Only blooper was I went to get the block out of my trunk, and the damn engine hoist fell over and punched a hole in the back of my good car I'm now doing a little body work to fix it.

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Sux about the dent. How much does a bare block weigh?

 

[Captain Insaino]

I'm not sure exactly where you can buy them anymore, but you can buy upgraded trunion bearings (still needle bearings, but caged) and press them in yourself with a small harbor freight press and an appropriate sized socket. That what I did with the Camaro. I agree with others that you should custom spec a cam for your final setup. It's always tempting to buy off the shelf, But that many degrees of overlap on your original choice may not be the best for your goals. At the very least, do ARP rod bolts, the stock torque to yeild head bolts should suffice unless you are increasing cylinder pressure to the extreme. I also think (IMHO) that stock lifters would be fine.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Sux about the dent. How much does a bare block weigh?

Thx Yeah little sad my dd is taking a beating.

The block was manageable with 2 people to set it in the trunk. I think it's 215lbs. I just couldn't lean over and pick it up out of trunk alone haha. Now that it's out of car I can pick it up and move it around. Although it's a bit of a back breaker :|

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

I'm not sure exactly where you can buy them anymore, but you can buy upgraded trunion bearings (still needle bearings, but caged) and press them in yourself with a small harbor freight press and an appropriate sized socket. That what I did with the Camaro. I agree with others that you should custom spec a cam for your final setup. It's always tempting to buy off the shelf, But that many degrees of overlap on your original choice may not be the best for your goals. At the very least, do ARP rod bolts, the stock torque to yeild head bolts should suffice unless you are increasing cylinder pressure to the extreme. I also think (IMHO) that stock lifters would be fine.

I ended up ordering trunnion kit off Amazon https://amzn.to/3ksELE7

I want to fix any weak points in the motor when I build it. That's my primary goal, hope for this to be a forever motor (if there is such a thing). So I went with the bushing ones. There's no roller.

I ordered these OEM Flat Top/LQ9 pistons: https://amzn.to/3np0sag

The guy I bought block from is an engine builder. I picked it up at his shop. I asked him about balancing the crank. He said I shouldn't have to touch it so long as I build the motor with GM spec internals. I had wondered about upgrading these pistons to HyperEutectric. However, just went with the OEM flat tops.

I'm stumped right now on what lifters to get? https://ebay.to/38GVphl

The engine builder STRONGLY encouraged replacing the factory lifters. He said the rollers tend to chip on them, and that's one of the reasons they have the lifter noise. He said I think "Johnson" lifters. I tried to call him to verify but cannot seem to reach him right now.

I'm looking at upgrading the oil pump, want higher volume, not sure about higher pressure.

I'd love to get the SLP high volume pump but seems they don't make those anymore? It would be a factory part number. Bit worried about slapping on say a Melling 295HV. He said these blocks spin cam bearings because there's only one oil port on each journal. It creates a hydrolic wedge and imbalanced load on the bearing. So I want to be very careful about which pump I get. Higher pressure could push the cam harder into the other side of the bearing. I definitely want more volume, just not more pressure. Again, I wanted to ask him but I cannot seem to get a hold of him right now.

 

[Tonyrodz]

I ended up ordering trunnion kit off Amazon https://amzn.to/3ksELE7

I want to fix any weak points in the motor when I build it. That's my primary goal, hope for this to be a forever motor (if there is such a thing). So I went with the bushing ones. There's no roller.

I ordered these OEM Flat Top/LQ9 pistons: https://amzn.to/3np0sag

The guy I bought block from is an engine builder. I picked it up at his shop. I asked him about balancing the crank. He said I shouldn't have to touch it so long as I build the motor with GM spec internals. I had wondered about upgrading these pistons to HyperEutectric. However, just went with the OEM flat tops.

I'm stumped right now on what lifters to get? https://ebay.to/38GVphl

The engine builder STRONGLY encouraged replacing the factory lifters. He said the rollers tend to chip on them, and that's one of the reasons they have the lifter noise. He said I think "Johnson" lifters. I tried to call him to verify but cannot seem to reach him right now.

I'm looking at upgrading the oil pump, want higher volume, not sure about higher pressure.

I'd love to get the SLP high volume pump but seems they don't make those anymore? It would be a factory part number. Bit worried about slapping on say a Melling 295HV. He said these blocks spin cam bearings because there's only one oil port on each journal. It creates a hydrolic wedge and imbalanced load on the bearing. So I want to be very careful about which pump I get. Higher pressure could push the cam harder into the other side of the bearing. I definitely want more volume, just not more pressure. Again, I wanted to ask him but I cannot seem to get a hold of him right now.

Makes sense about spinning cam bearings. I had a Melling hv on mine.
Looks like you got the last trunnion kit--they're out of stock.

 

[Matthew Jeschke]

Were you looking to do the trunnion upgrade? I think they sell those kits all over the place, here's one at Jegs: https://rb.gy/ganuhs

Cam bearings make me damn nervous. I also have a slightly hoped up LS1 in my Corvette. It sees like 1000 miles every decade though haha. With luck I'll have a tow vehicle to take it up to the silver state classic though! A long time goal of mine

What oil pump are you looking to use this time?

 

[Tonyrodz]

Were you looking to do the trunnion upgrade? I think they sell those kits all over the place, here's one at Jegs: https://rb.gy/ganuhs

Cam bearings make me damn nervous. I also have a slightly hoped up LS1 in my Corvette. It sees like 1000 miles every decade though haha. With luck I'll have a tow vehicle to take it up to the silver state classic though! A long time goal of mine

What oil pump are you looking to use this time?

I also have the Melling hv in this new motor. I wasn't looking to do the trunnions. I was just checking out the link. Thx tho.

 

[Captain Insaino]

“The engine builder STRONGLY encouraged replacing the factory lifters. He said the rollers tend to chip on them, and that's one of the reasons they have the lifter noise. He said I think "Johnson" lifters. I tried to call him to verify but cannot seem to reach him right now.”


I would listen to your builder. I haven’t built an LS based engine in several years.

concerns about the cam bearings are legit. I bought a block from a “reputable builder“ that didn’t line hone the block. My front cam bearing on one of my engines walked out. In the end the motor was junk. I still ended up putting 30,000 miles on it with f’d up bearings, I kept trying to blow it up and it wouldn’t break.