How to stiffen suspension/stop swaying?

[OR VietVet]

those that have changed/updated/upgraded your sway bars did your version of the GMT800 not have rear bars from the factory???...

I have a 2005 GMC Yukon Denali with front and rear sway bars that I believe are factory installed in my rig...I'm curious if the change to Helwig or another brand sway bar is an improvement or only an incremental upgrade for me...

thanks for any information or experiences you'd care to share...

Bill

Factory sway bars are hollow. They are not heavy..... Helwig replacements are a solid 'chrome molly' bar, and yes, they make a difference.

I had factory bars front and rear, on my 2005 Z71. I installed the Hellwig bar kits, front and rear. If you read my build thread, you will see me talk/brag about it being the single most seat of the pants improvement that I made to my Tahoe. You add in a set of quality tires, I do load range E Cooper's for the stiffer sidewall, and I cannot state enough about how much better/easier that the Tahoe handles in curves and corners, at higher speeds. After install, your first road test will be way different and longer than you thought because you just want to keep pushing the limits.

 

[SilverSport]

thanks guys...that you are still pleased with the upgrade is great too...

Bill

 

[mountie]

As of today, I now have both Hellwig bars and all new shocks..... Feels nice.....
I asked the shop, a ballpark to do a 2" drop, ( the best quality version).... $1,600.

This shop is a custom truck shop that does the 'high-end' lifts, and other suspension up grades.
They do this stuff all the time...... Thoughts on their estimate $$ ?
Hmmm....

 

[OR VietVet]

As of today, I now have both Hellwig bars and all new shocks..... Feels nice.....
I asked the shop, a ballpark to do a 2" drop, ( the best quality version).... $1,600.

This shop is a custom truck shop that does the 'high-end' lifts, and other suspension up grades.
They do this stuff all the time...... Thoughts on their estimate $$ ?
Hmmm....

Don't like lifts or drops. IMO, you should drive it the way it is for awhile. You may change your mind on the drop.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

I agree with @OR VietVet on lifts and drops, UNLESS you have a SPECIFIC purpose/need for the height adjustment. Again, just my opinion, as there are no rights or wrongs in this area.

@mountie , have you 'tested' the Hellwig sway bars yet? As you probably know, @OR VietVet and I each have our own test cloverleafs, where we evaluated the performance of the Hellwig sway bars versus the OEM sway bars. We'd like to get your opinion.

 

[mountie]

I agree with @OR VietVet on lifts and drops, UNLESS you have a SPECIFIC purpose/need for the height adjustment. Again, just my opinion, as there are no rights or wrongs in this area.

@mountie , have you 'tested' the Hellwig sway bars yet? As you probably know, @OR VietVet and I each have our own test cloverleafs, where we evaluated the performance of the Hellwig sway bars versus the OEM sway bars. We'd like to get your opinion.

I am planning to do that exact thing...... Too feel the difference / improvement..... I'll let you know.

I'm going first to test, without my tools loaded, then with my work tools stuffed inside.

 

[OR VietVet]

I am planning to do that exact thing...... Too feel the difference / improvement..... I'll let you know.

I'm going first to test, without my tools loaded, then with my work tools stuffed inside.

Keep in mind, I have load range E tires on my Tahoe along with the bars. I have a tight cloverleaf that I can go thru 15 mph more than I used to. I can hear a bit of tire squeal at times but it does not feel unsafe at all. Those bars came in very handy one time and saved me a wreck one time. I had made a right turn and was accelerating and then a car pulled out in front of me from the right, out of a gas station drive. There was a center turn lane to my left. I never let up on the accel and did a quick turn to left and then back right to miss the front of the car. Response was immediate and firm. I have no idea of the weight of tools but I would assume that the weight will not effect the performance much at all.

 

[mountie]

Keep in mind, I have load range E tires on my Tahoe along with the bars. I have a tight cloverleaf that I can go thru 15 mph more than I used to. I can hear a bit of tire squeal at times but it does not feel unsafe at all. Those bars came in very handy one time and saved me a wreck one time. I had made a right turn and was accelerating and then a car pulled out in front of me from the right, out of a gas station drive. There was a center turn lane to my left. I never let up on the accel and did a quick turn to left and then back right to miss the front of the car. Response was immediate and firm. I have no idea of the weight of tools but I would assume that the weight will not effect the performance much at all.

I can relate....... After years as a 'performance driving instructor', ..I learned a good handling vehicle will get you away from a 'problem'. ( Avoiding an accident.... You steer away from the problem first. Then slow down if needed. Just slamming on the brakes, ...you loose your ability to turn.
( Front wheel drive cars...... To avoid an accident, you steer toward the safe direction, and KEEP YOUR FOOT ON THE GAS..... So the car travels to the direction you want to go. ( Front wheel drive, pulls the car toward the target you are aiming to )

( Then kiss your ass good by..... Front wheel drive sucks )

 

[91RS]

A mild drop or lift won’t ruin a vehicle but you have to use quality parts. Most people are cheap and get cheap results. I’ve got a 2/4 on my 08 and 13 and they drive exactly like stock, the only way you can tell it isn’t is the Michelins rub a little at full lock.

 

[OR VietVet]

A mild drop or lift won’t ruin a vehicle but you have to use quality parts. Most people are cheap and get cheap results. I’ve got a 2/4 on my 08 and 13 and they drive exactly like stock, the only way you can tell it isn’t is the Michelins rub a little at full lock.

There it is. The tires rub. Stock height does not rub.

 

[mountie]

I am planning to do that exact thing...... Too feel the difference / improvement..... I'll let you know.

I'm going first to test, without my tools loaded, then with my work tools stuffed inside.

I drove in familiar territory.... Now that I have both sway bars & all shocks replaced.....
I feel, a "newness" with the '05 Yukon XL .
1st thing.... I noticed is less 'recoil' from mild rolling bumps, but still a smooth ride.
2nd thing.... Braking and 'stop light' acceleration, there is almost zero 'up/down' movement looking over the hood. ( rear shocks are not compressing during a 'weight transfer', due to a firmer shock.
3rd thing.... Turning...... Much more stable / solid feel.

( Now for my op-ed )..... Turning aggressively, and you hear your tires noisy, ( technically, that is slowing you ..... ( as they say, " Slow is faster" )..... Tire noise is due to scrubbing ( as in slamming on your brakes).... Same goes for turning noise.
I use the steering wheel like pouring a bottle of wine.... Smooth - not sudden moves.

What I told the students, entering into a turn, ..... start turning your wheel a bit sooner / slower....... steady around the turn...... exiting the turn, same.... sooner / slower. FOLLOW THE LINE.... If you don't, you upset the 'tire patches' and start scrubbing again.

You have 4 tires on the ground. ( Called a " tire patch" )..... All 4 tires should be on the ground, and the 'tire patches' should be the same. Upsetting the 'side to side' weight is what creates a lack of control. ( Unless you are " drifting"..... but that's not fast, around the turn.... it's "entertaining" !!

4 equal tire patches on the ground, in a turn, is fast. If the tires are not 'scrubbing' in a turn, then the next time in that turn, try to go faster.... and still not scrubbing.
( I used to drive Sonoma Raceway a lot).....

( Sorry for the lecture )....

 

[OR VietVet]

I drove in familiar territory.... Now that I have both sway bars & all shocks replaced.....
I feel, a "newness" with the '05 Yukon XL .
1st thing.... I noticed is less 'recoil' from mild rolling bumps, but still a smooth ride.
2nd thing.... Braking and 'stop light' acceleration, there is almost zero 'up/down' movement looking over the hood. ( rear shocks are not compressing during a 'weight transfer', due to a firmer shock.
3rd thing.... Turning...... Much more stable / solid feel.

( Now for my op-ed )..... Turning aggressively, and you hear your tires noisy, ( technically, that is slowing you ..... ( as they say, " Slow is faster" )..... Tire noise is due to scrubbing ( as in slamming on your brakes).... Same goes for turning noise.
I use the steering wheel like pouring a bottle of wine.... Smooth - not sudden moves.

What I told the students, entering into a turn, ..... start turning your wheel a bit sooner / slower....... steady around the turn...... exiting the turn, same.... sooner / slower. FOLLOW THE LINE.... If you don't, you upset the 'tire patches' and start scrubbing again.

You have 4 tires on the ground. ( Called a " tire patch" )..... All 4 tires should be on the ground, and the 'tire patches' should be the same. Upsetting the 'side to side' weight is what creates a lack of control. ( Unless you are " drifting"..... but that's not fast, around the turn.... it's "entertaining" !!

4 equal tire patches on the ground, in a turn, is fast. If the tires are not 'scrubbing' in a turn, then the next time in that turn, try to go faster.... and still not scrubbing.
( I used to drive Sonoma Raceway a lot).....

( Sorry for the lecture )....

The one cloverleaf that I squeal a tire or two is pretty flat and I just like to push it there. That is an exit ramp.

My favorite cloverleaf is the entrance side of the same highway. You start uphill a bit and then you drop down several feet with a steep bank to the right and is 3 lanes wide and then it flattens out at the bottom as you get to where you merge. If you go there the right time of day, it has virtually no traffic. I start accelerating as I come up to the crown and then enter the drop down curve hugging the inside and still accelerating and then drift up about 1 whole lane as it flattens and you merge. That is very fun. The designer/engineer of that cloverleaf is a great guy/girl....

 

[GMMOPARGUY]

The Hellwig sway bar kits are solid steel instead of the hollow tube design like the Eibach. I have ordered the new front and rear Hellwig kits at ebay, to be installed soon. They are kit #'s 7701 and 7702. $7701 is $365.51 and 7702 is $262.59 and I bought from seller "neverenoughauto".

Not saying the Eibach kits are not quality at all but I would prefer the solid steel bars instead of the hollow bars. I just installed new KYB shocks but I agree with @91RS, at least match the 5100's or install known age all new shocks. The shocks control front and rear spring bounce oscillations and to a point the sway from centerline but the sway bar kits really will stiffen up that sway. I am really looking forward to the different comparison when I get those Hellwig kits on.

I replaced my shocks all around with Billstein 5100’s, just bought an Eibach rear sway bar with polyurethane bushings and up front I am doing polyurethane sway bar bushings on the stock sway bar and polyurethane sway bar end links….. if I still feel sway then I’ll cough up the $$$ for a sway bar up front

 

[mountie]

I replaced my shocks all around with Billstein 5100’s, just bought an Eibach rear sway bar with polyurethane bushings and up front I am doing polyurethane sway bar bushings on the stock sway bar and polyurethane sway bar end links….. if I still feel sway then I’ll cough up the $$$ for a sway bar up front

Yea... the stock front sway bar is a hollow pipe. Good bushings won't improve the cheap bar.

 

[91RS]

There it is. The tires rub. Stock height does not rub.

The good looks are worth it. Michelins rub on the K2 tucks at stock height when the fender liners warp slightly (which is basically all of them), so it isn’t that big of a deal.

 

[OR VietVet]

Yea... the stock front sway bar is a hollow pipe. Good bushings won't improve the cheap bar.

Yea, cannot see where a hollow sway bar can be nearly as efficient as a solid steel bar. Lighter, yes. Better, no.

 

[OR VietVet]

Sorry, I cannot see the good looks of a lowered vehicle. Stock height and stock truck in great shape, low mileage and no rust and then you got my attention. A lowered or lifted vehicle, IMO, will always have quality/uncertainty issues. Can't count on the work quality, unless I do it or know the qualifications of who did the work. The quality of components as well. Give me stock and improve handling and brakes and a clean rust free look. That is value to me.

 

[91RS]

Why would the work quality be any different than if someone replaced all the same components with stock replacement parts? The factory boys leave stuff loose and unplugged all the time, too. Cheap stock replacement parts have questionable material quality, I’ve seen so many worn out again in a year.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the looks because the stink bug stock ride height (with the rear higher than the front) looks terrible. The 2/4 drop on mine looks killer, rides as good as OEM because it’s mostly OEM, aligns to factory specs, and handles better. The Hellwig sway bars don’t fit nearly as well as the OEM do but the improvement is also worth it.

 

[89Suburban]

Why would the work quality be any different than if someone replaced all the same components with stock replacement parts? The factory boys leave stuff loose and unplugged all the time, too. Cheap stock replacement parts have questionable material quality, I’ve seen so many worn out again in a year.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the looks because the stink bug stock ride height (with the rear higher than the front) looks terrible. The 2/4 drop on mine looks killer, rides as good as OEM because it’s mostly OEM, aligns to factory specs, and handles better. The Hellwig sway bars don’t fit nearly as well as the OEM do but the improvement is also worth it.

What exhaust is that?

 

[mountie]

Why would the work quality be any different than if someone replaced all the same components with stock replacement parts? The factory boys leave stuff loose and unplugged all the time, too. Cheap stock replacement parts have questionable material quality, I’ve seen so many worn out again in a year.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on the looks because the stink bug stock ride height (with the rear higher than the front) looks terrible. The 2/4 drop on mine looks killer, rides as good as OEM because it’s mostly OEM, aligns to factory specs, and handles better. The Hellwig sway bars don’t fit nearly as well as the OEM do but the improvement is also worth it.

The Hellwig bars fit easily front & rear on my stock '05 Yukon XL... Are you saying, the bars don't fit as well if your truck is raised or lowered?