DOD/AFM Delete Valve questions

[Darren2014]

Hey all, I’m debating on doing an AFM/DOD Delete on my 2014 Tahoe with 90,000 miles myself or having a local shop do it for about 3 times with price. My question is if I do it myself, do I need to lap the valves or am I good to go just leaving them as is? I’m planing on putting in a stock cam, since a Stage 2 would be a little more intrusive. Tho I have heard that a Stage 2 cam does offer better fuel economy and power. I’m a kinda new to working under the hood, tho I’m pretty use to fixing things around the vehicles and want to learn more. Any help is appreciated!

 

[wsteele]

Hey all, I’m debating on doing an AFM/DOD Delete on my 2014 Tahoe with 90,000 miles myself or having a local shop do it for about 3 times with price. My question is if I do it myself, do I need to lap the valves or am I good to go just leaving them as is? I’m planing on putting in a stock cam, since a Stage 2 would be a little more intrusive. Tho I have heard that a Stage 2 cam does offer better fuel economy and power. I’m a kinda new to working under the hood, tho I’m pretty use to fixing things around the vehicles and want to learn more. Any help is appreciated!

Maybe do a leak down test and see how your valves look, although it would be extraordinary for them not to be fine. The "while you are in there" encouragement will be here soon...

Honestly, on a 2014, if it has been maintained properly (regular oil changes), I probably would turn AFM off in SW and call it good.

 

[Darren2014]

Maybe do a leak down test and see how your valves look, although it would be extraordinary for them not to be fine. The "while you are in there" encouragement will be here soon...

Honestly, on a 2014, if it has been maintained properly (regular oil changes), I probably would turn AFM off in SW and call it good.

I attempted to do this with a Range disabler but some how now still have a stuck lifter. So if I’m in there I’m gonna go ahead and mechanically delete it. As far as “while I’m in there” lapping the valves, all the machine shops near me are booked till next month and I’m kinda in a hurry to get back in my daily driver. I’ve seen people lap the valves themselves but I’m not very knowledgeable on doing it so I’m kinda apprehensive.

 

[wsteele]

I attempted to do this with a Range disabler but some how now still have a stuck lifter. So if I’m in there I’m gonna go ahead and mechanically delete it. As far as “while I’m in there” lapping the valves, all the machine shops near me are booked till next month and I’m kinda in a hurry to get back in my daily driver. I’ve seen people lap the valves themselves but I’m not very knowledgeable on doing it so I’m kinda apprehensive.

I personally wouldn't worry about it, but if you really want to be sure they are sealing like new, lapping is really easy. You just need a valve spring tool, get the valve springs and keepers off. You lap them with the valve loose and free in the head. You get a little suction cup with wood handle tool to be able to spin the valves in their seats and use lapping compound on the valve seats.

I have never looked, but I am sure there are YouTube videos on the process, it is really simple. I used to lap my valves between practice and qualifying sessions on my Formula Ford (road racer). I probably lapped 500 valves in those days. I never ******* one up, which means it has to be REALLY easy.

 

[iamdub]

What @wsteele said. My Stage2 cam results has been all positives, but due to the supporting mods. It really is an all-or-nothing thing as each mod complements and supports the other in optimization. If you can't wait for the machine work and are fine with stock performance, then I'd suggest just the standard AFM delete. You're gonna need it turned off in the tune, anyway, and I always recommend this guy cuz it's only $50 plus shipping. I agree that, with a 2014 that would have the latest version of AFM components and only 90K miles, just disabling it in the tune should be good for a long while. But, if you're already having lifter issues, then you gotta do the delete and save it.

There's no reason not to lap the valves at the very least. Watch YouTube vids. It's a rewarding Saturday job in the garage and worth it to know your heads are sealing properly. Top off the delete with a catch can to keep the crud out of your chambers.

 

[swathdiver]

Hey all, I’m debating on doing an AFM/DOD Delete on my 2014 Tahoe with 90,000 miles myself or having a local shop do it for about 3 times with price. My question is if I do it myself, do I need to lap the valves or am I good to go just leaving them as is? I’m planing on putting in a stock cam, since a Stage 2 would be a little more intrusive. Tho I have heard that a Stage 2 cam does offer better fuel economy and power. I’m a kinda new to working under the hood, tho I’m pretty use to fixing things around the vehicles and want to learn more. Any help is appreciated!

What do you mean by "stock cam"?

 

[Darren2014]

What do you mean by "stock cam"?

Sorry I meant a LM7 cam from TSP so I can keep VVT

 

[Darren2014]

What @wsteele said. My Stage2 cam results has been all positives, but due to the supporting mods. It really is an all-or-nothing thing as each mod complements and supports the other in optimization. If you can't wait for the machine work and are fine with stock performance, then I'd suggest just the standard AFM delete. You're gonna need it turned off in the tune, anyway, and I always recommend this guy cuz it's only $50 plus shipping. I agree that, with a 2014 that would have the latest version of AFM components and only 90K miles, just disabling it in the tune should be good for a long while. But, if you're already having lifter issues, then you gotta do the delete and save it.

There's no reason not to lap the valves at the very least. Watch YouTube vids. It's a rewarding Saturday job in the garage and worth it to know your heads are sealing properly. Top off the delete with a catch can to keep the crud out of your chambers.

I’ll watch some videos and see about doing it. What do you mean a catch cam tho?

Also I’m curious if there’s any precautions I should take while doing the job to insure I don’t get coolant or oil in the wrong areas. Blowing out or vacuuming out certain portions. I’ve seen one video where the guy slipped a slim hose into a port and siphoned out some coolant.

 

[wsteele]

OK, since the "while you are in there" is kind of getting off to a slow start, I will say, since you are already going to be in there with the valve springs off to lap the valve seats, maybe consider new valve springs and seals. Valve springs wear out (although I would expect yours are not yet worn out), but are relatively cheap to replace. If you break one while on the road, the results can be problematic. I broke one in my '07 at a little over 100K, so new ones would be on my list if'n I was taking them down anyway.

 

[Darren2014]

What @wsteele said. My Stage2 cam results has been all positives, but due to the supporting mods. It really is an all-or-nothing thing as each mod complements and supports the other in optimization. If you can't wait for the machine work and are fine with stock performance, then I'd suggest just the standard AFM delete. You're gonna need it turned off in the tune, anyway, and I always recommend this guy cuz it's only $50 plus shipping. I agree that, with a 2014 that would have the latest version of AFM components and only 90K miles, just disabling it in the tune should be good for a long while. But, if you're already having lifter issues, then you gotta do the delete and save it.

There's no reason not to lap the valves at the very least. Watch YouTube vids. It's a rewarding Saturday job in the garage and worth it to know your heads are sealing properly. Top off the delete with a catch can to keep the crud out of your chambers.

Also what are all of the supporting mods you mentioned? I was curious about possibly going the stage 2 route.

 

[swathdiver]

Sorry I meant a LM7 cam from TSP so I can keep VVT

I guess those guys bought a lot of those camshafts and that's why they keep peddling them. An LM7 camshaft is SMALLER then your stock cam and they never had provisions for VVT.

So, if your engine has VVT, the original camshaft is 12625436 and as you can see from the specs, it's quite different than the old LM7/L59 Gen III camshafts. If the replacement they sent you does indeed share those LM7 specs and has provisions for VVT, it should be the 12625437 LH9 camshaft.

When the earlier 5.3 LMG/LY5/LC9 motors do an AFM delete, we use the L33 camshaft as it has the exact same specs as our original sans AFM. We did not have VVT in these earlier motors. There is no exact equivalent for yours. You might consider an L9H 6.2 cam 12623065 or a BTR Truck Torque cam which is a single pattern grind but don't remember if it is VVT compatible or not.

 

[wsteele]

I guess those guys bought a lot of those camshafts and that's why they keep peddling them. An LM7 camshaft is SMALLER then your stock cam and they never had provisions for VVT.

View attachment 344495

So, if your engine has VVT, the original camshaft is 12625436 and as you can see from the specs, it's quite different than the old LM7/L59 Gen III camshafts. If the replacement they sent you does indeed share those LM7 specs and has provisions for VVT, it should be the 12625437 LH9 camshaft.

When the earlier 5.3 LMG/LY5/LC9 motors do an AFM delete, we use the L33 camshaft as it has the exact same specs as our original sans AFM. We did not have VVT in these earlier motors. There is no exact equivalent for yours. You might consider an L9H 6.2 cam 12623065 or a BTR Truck Torque cam which is a single pattern grind but don't remember if it is VVT compatible or not.

Looking at TSP's website, under the LM7 option it says it will work with or without VVT, (not sure if they mean it will work with VVT engines by deleting VVT or that their LM7 cam works with either).

 

[swathdiver]

Looking at TSP's website, under the LM7 option it says it will work with or without VVT, (not sure if they mean it will work with VVT engines by deleting VVT or that their LM7 cam works with either).

The cam will physically bolt up but if there is not a groove and hole cut into the 2nd cam journal, VVT is not going to work as it will be starved of oil.

Sadly, most cams are not designed to work with VVT. I reckon it requires much R&D time and folks just aren't willing to pay for it compared to what it ultimately delivers.

Worse, he's going to lose horsepower with that cam VVT or no VVT.

 

[wsteele]

The cam will physically bolt up but if there is not a groove and hole cut into the 2nd cam journal, VVT is not going to work as it will be starved of oil.

View attachment 344530

Sadly, most cams are not designed to work with VVT. I reckon it requires much R&D time and folks just aren't willing to pay for it compared to what it ultimately delivers.

Worse, he's going to lose horsepower with that cam VVT or no VVT.

I understand what you are saying about the difference between a VVT compatible cam and one that doesn't support it, it is just odd they would specifically call out that one of their two offered "LM7" cam says:

• GM LM7 5.3L Single Bolt Cam, use w/ OEM Valve Springs - Works with or without VVT (28-12689035)

 

[Darren2014]

The cam will physically bolt up but if there is not a groove and hole cut into the 2nd cam journal, VVT is not going to work as it will be starved of oil.

View attachment 344530

Sadly, most cams are not designed to work with VVT. I reckon it requires much R&D time and folks just aren't willing to pay for it compared to what it ultimately delivers.

Worse, he's going to lose horsepower with that cam VVT or no VVT.

So what would be the closest to stock cam I should go to in order to not lose power and hopefully not have to lap my valves. I’m not trying to be lazy, I’m just on a time crunch as far as the days I have off with my new work schedule and I’m currently driving a gmt800 suburban I got T ***** in.

I understand what you are saying about the difference between a VVT compatible cam and one that doesn't support it, it is just odd they would specifically call out that one of their two offered "LM7" cam says:

• GM LM7 5.3L Single Bolt Cam, use w/ OEM Valve Springs - Works with or without VVT (28-12689035)

That is strange. The way it reads to me is that it would work if you wanted to keep the VVT

 

[wsteele]

So what would be the closest to stock cam I should go to in order to not lose power and hopefully not have to lap my valves. I’m not trying to be lazy, I’m just on a time crunch as far as the days I have off with my new work schedule and I’m currently driving a gmt800 suburban I got T ***** in.

That is strange. The way it reads to me is that it would work if you wanted to keep the VVT

That is definitely the way I read it, worth a call Monday for clarification.

 

[Darren2014]

So after a decent bit of research I’m kinda down to either a LH9 cam in order to keep things as close to “stock” as possible. Or go with a TSP Stage 2 VVT cam. Both let me keep VVT tho I would have to install a cam phase limiter with the TSP. Any other recommendations would be great tho. Heck if there are any good reasons to get rid of the VVT let me know. As far as I can see it’s all pros but I’ve been wrong before lol. Thanks for all the help so far guys. I’m so happy I found this forum and all the help I’ve gotten here.

 

[swathdiver]

So what would be the closest to stock cam I should go to in order to not lose power and hopefully not have to lap my valves. I’m not trying to be lazy, I’m just on a time crunch as far as the days I have off with my new work schedule and I’m currently driving a gmt800 suburban I got T ***** in.

That is strange. The way it reads to me is that it would work if you wanted to keep the VVT

If your heads are not burning oil, I see no reason to lap the valves when doing a DOD delete. Yes, that camshaft was made to work with VVT, so it is backwards compatible. It will work in my older motor without VVT or yours with VVT.

I'd look into using the L9H camshaft is you want to keep VVT working. Note that it is different than the LH9 camshaft, two different motors. I'm in the minority around here, most folks like cams with more than 210 degrees duration for a 5.3 and more lift than the stock springs can handle.

I forget, did your motor fail or is it running fine? If the latter, take your time and don't rush things.

 

[Darren2014]

If your heads are not burning oil, I see no reason to lap the valves when doing a DOD delete. Yes, that camshaft was made to work with VVT, so it is backwards compatible. It will work in my older motor without VVT or yours with VVT.

I'd look into using the L9H camshaft is you want to keep VVT working. Note that it is different than the LH9 camshaft, two different motors. I'm in the minority around here, most folks like cams with more than 210 degrees duration for a 5.3 and more lift than the stock springs can handle.

I forget, did your motor fail or is it running fine? If the latter, take your time and don't rush things.

I have a lifter that’s stuck compressed. I believe it’s cylinder one. So it’s driving like crap and knocking very loud. I parked it just after it started and started driving the clapped out burban

 

[Darren2014]

If your heads are not burning oil, I see no reason to lap the valves when doing a DOD delete. Yes, that camshaft was made to work with VVT, so it is backwards compatible. It will work in my older motor without VVT or yours with VVT.

I'd look into using the L9H camshaft is you want to keep VVT working. Note that it is different than the LH9 camshaft, two different motors. I'm in the minority around here, most folks like cams with more than 210 degrees duration for a 5.3 and more lift than the stock springs can handle.

I forget, did your motor fail or is it running fine? If the latter, take your time and don't rush things.

Also what what benefit does the L9H have over the LH9. I know I’ll loose a little horse power and a little bit of torque with the LH9 but it seems to be the closest thing to a stock cam for my motor minus the DOD. The L9H is impressive with how much more power it would give me, but that worries me since I’m not planning on changing out a ton of parts while I’m in there. I’d prefer to just be able to swap the cam, and lifters, put everything back together and have it tuned. With the L9H I’m worried id need to swap some parts out for others that are beefier than stock.