DOD / AFM delete parts

[JKaechler]

I am planning to do the AFM delete camshaft swap in the near future. I have looked at a number of kits that include cam, gaskets, lifters, springs, etc.. But what I have been trying to find is some kind of a refernece guide that will show me a listing of exactly which parts I am likely to need. I am hoping to have all my parts bought in advance, take a couple days off work, and tear it down and put it back without having to stop and buy stuff.

I know the Cam and Springs and lifters need to be replaced. And things like Gaskets. I plan to put on a new water pump while its off, and seems like a good time to put in a new oil pump as well.
what about the timing gear and chain?

Is there a guide somewhere that lists a parts list?
Also, what is the group consensus on the best cam? I hope to get one that builds torque at low RPM.. I rarely exceed 3000RPM unless i am on the highway passing somebody, and up that high the stock power is just fine. My concern, and one of my motives is the lack of power below about 1800 RPM. I believe that my stock cam may have its lobes wearing off, resulting in low valve lift.

The engine is all original at this point, with 240k miles on it. There is a very slight lifter tick, and oil pressure is ok. I feel like the AFM lifter collapse is inevitable, and want to get out in front of it if possible.

 

[Geotrash]

I am planning to do the AFM delete camshaft swap in the near future. I have looked at a number of kits that include cam, gaskets, lifters, springs, etc.. But what I have been trying to find is some kind of a refernece guide that will show me a listing of exactly which parts I am likely to need. I am hoping to have all my parts bought in advance, take a couple days off work, and tear it down and put it back without having to stop and buy stuff.

I know the Cam and Springs and lifters need to be replaced. And things like Gaskets. I plan to put on a new water pump while its off, and seems like a good time to put in a new oil pump as well.
what about the timing gear and chain?

Is there a guide somewhere that lists a parts list?
Also, what is the group consensus on the best cam? I hope to get one that builds torque at low RPM.. I rarely exceed 3000RPM unless i am on the highway passing somebody, and up that high the stock power is just fine. My concern, and one of my motives is the lack of power below about 1800 RPM. I believe that my stock cam may have its lobes wearing off, resulting in low valve lift.

The engine is all original at this point, with 240k miles on it. There is a very slight lifter tick, and oil pressure is ok. I feel like the AFM lifter collapse is inevitable, and want to get out in front of it if possible.

2012 Yukon XL Denali 6.2L Cam Swap Thread

Tie bars next time? Thought about it, but decided to go with Chevrolet Performance lifters and trays. This new cam is relatively low lift compared to the others (.501 for the new Cam Motion vs .553 for the BTR and .578 for the Vinci), and has a relatively gentle ramp, so it should be easy on...

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

Bon apetit! Everything but the cam itself will interchange with a 5.3. Technically the cam will too, but it's not optimized for it.

 

[DesertRat]

I went with a Brian Tooley Racing kit a couple years ago. It was only missing a couple gaskets. I forget which, but they were easy to get last minute. I did an engine swap, so my needs may be a little bit different than what yours are. Texas Speed also has a kit. Should be able to chat with a customer service rep from either company to confirm what might be needed additionally. Be sure to budget for a tune if you're getting a cam.

 

[Marky Dissod]

... what is the group consensus on the best cam? I hope to get one that builds torque at low RPM.
I rarely exceed 3000RpM unless i am on the highway passing somebody, and up that high the stock power is just fine.
My concern, and one of my motives is the lack of power below about 1800 RpM.

Technically, consider this an answer you were not expecting.
What is your axleS ratio? If you have a 6L80, 3.73 would also make you very happy.

An oil analysis might warn you in advance of your valvetrain wearing out on you.
Also, are you SURE your lifter tick is not an exhaust manifold leak?

 

[Marky Dissod]

... what is the group consensus on the best cam? I hope to get one that builds torque at low RpM.
I rarely exceed 3000RpM unless i am on the highway passing somebody, and up that high the stock power is just fine.
My concern, and one of my motives is the lack of power below about 1800 RpM.

You know what builds torque at low RpM, even better than a cam?
DISPLACEMENT.

Whatever you're gonna do to the 5.3L, you could do the EXACT SAME THINGS to a 6.0L.
If the 6.0L has rectangle port heads, put your 243-799 pope hat heads on it for a lil bump of scr.
Choose your gasket carefully to keep the scr under 11.0:1.

 

[JKaechler]

This is all good input. especially the whole long thread from Geotrash.

Re: gears - its a 4x4, and regearing would be a huge pain in the neck.. and i geared my old suburban down to a 4.11 and did not like the way it ran. granted, that truck had a 4l60e but im hesitant to go there.

re: engine swapping to a 6l. that would be soooo cool. but is not even on the horizon now. I plan to run this Tahoe another few hundred thousand miles, and there will come a time when the whole engine needs to come out. That is the point at which i would like to go 6L. until then, i need to make the most of the 5.3 i have.

I like the look of the kits from Texas Speed or AMS Racing. I have some confusion over the choices of lifters? Is my engine ( RPO code - LMG ) using roller lifters? I know they all need to be replaced as a set. What about link bar lifters vs those tray thingies? I see a number of references to the tray failing.

My previous engine building experiences were on a 1968 Ford 302, which used old fashioned flat lifters and no electronics at all. On the old engines, timing was just a matter of gear alignment. Now its sensors and variable valve timing.

After a lot of reading on the pros and cons, i think i want to keep the VVT system in place, and get a cam that focuses on torque at the low end of the rpm range. But i am trying to learn the meaning of lift & duration, lobe angle separation, and what that all means to real world driving. Back in the old days, you just picked up a Edelbrock performer cam and intake and you were set! That is no longer true, its a lot more complex.




So: I see a lot of talk about 'low lift cams' and how they are better for daily drivers. But it seems to me that your valves opening higher would allow more air/fuel in even when the piston moving down more slowly (lower rpm). Am I right that choosing something with very slightly higher lift than stock would bump up the power down low, with the tradeoff of slightly less fuel efficiency?

I am willing to take a slight hit on mileage to increase torque, and I am not looking to go extreme anyways.
The cam I am mostly thinking of is this one
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-8718r1

trouble is, that is a 3-bolt cam. and if i want to preserve the VVT, i need a 1 bolt cam.

so, my research continues. At least for now the engine runs. lack of power, but no bad noises and it does not seem to be about to die. does not smoke or burn oil...
but this needs to be addressed in the near future.




</ramble>

 

[Marky Dissod]

geared my old suburban down to a 4.11 and did not like the way it ran.
granted, that truck had a 4L60E but im hesitant to go there.

Exactly how old was this old bubba?
At what RpM did it upshift @ WOT?
And did you get it tuned after installing 4.11?
Without a thorough tune, I can understand why it did not live up to expectations.

Hydraulic roller lifters since the '90s.

VVT was meant to make up for the loss of low end torque of rectangle heads compared to pope hat heads.
Don't forget that the 243-799 heads made 400 horses @ 6000RpM in the LS2.

VVT is not nearly the liability that is Engine Half@$$, but it's not really necessary.

Am I right that choosing something with very slightly higher lift than stock would bump up the power down low, with the tradeoff of slightly less fuel efficiency?

Not exactly. Bumping up the power down low IS improving efficiency.
The cam that makes the best power UNDER 3000RpM, tends to get the best MpGs.
The higher the lift, the heavier the valves, the stiffer the valvesprings, the tighter the lash, the lower the MpG.
Big lift is not needed to make power under 3000RpM.

Big lift cams also tend not to last 300,000 miles. One of the few times I don't disagree with OE philosophy.

 

[JKaechler]

Not exactly. Bumping up the power down low IS improving efficiency.
The cam that makes the best power UNDER 3000RpM, tends to get the best MpGs.
The higher the lift, the heavier the valves, the stiffer the valvesprings, the tighter the lash, the lower the MpG.
Big lift is not needed to make power under 3000RpM.

Big lift cams also tend not to last 300,000 miles. One of the few times I don't disagree with OE philosophy.

now that is good information.

thank you!

 

[JKaechler]

Exactly how old was this old bubba?
At what RpM did it upshift @ WOT?
And did you get it tuned after installing 4.11?
Without a thorough tune, I can understand why it did not live up to expectations

it was a 2001 Suburban. Im not sure about the WOT upshift, as i dont often go to full throttle.
And I only did a tune in the DIY sense with a small Accel Supertuner handheld. I used it to change the gear ratio setting, the tire size setting, and install what they call the '87 octane' tune.


I actually moved that same tuner to my current Tahoe, and have used it to do tire size changes, and AFM disable on the current engine. As well as the 87 octane performance thingy.

I suspect that will not be sufficient when the cam swap happens. I will need a better tuner device, and some laptop time.

 

[Geotrash]

This is all good input. especially the whole long thread from Geotrash.

Re: gears - its a 4x4, and regearing would be a huge pain in the neck.. and i geared my old suburban down to a 4.11 and did not like the way it ran. granted, that truck had a 4l60e but im hesitant to go there.

re: engine swapping to a 6l. that would be soooo cool. but is not even on the horizon now. I plan to run this Tahoe another few hundred thousand miles, and there will come a time when the whole engine needs to come out. That is the point at which i would like to go 6L. until then, i need to make the most of the 5.3 i have.

I like the look of the kits from Texas Speed or AMS Racing. I have some confusion over the choices of lifters? Is my engine ( RPO code - LMG ) using roller lifters? I know they all need to be replaced as a set. What about link bar lifters vs those tray thingies? I see a number of references to the tray failing.

My previous engine building experiences were on a 1968 Ford 302, which used old fashioned flat lifters and no electronics at all. On the old engines, timing was just a matter of gear alignment. Now its sensors and variable valve timing.

After a lot of reading on the pros and cons, i think i want to keep the VVT system in place, and get a cam that focuses on torque at the low end of the rpm range. But i am trying to learn the meaning of lift & duration, lobe angle separation, and what that all means to real world driving. Back in the old days, you just picked up a Edelbrock performer cam and intake and you were set! That is no longer true, its a lot more complex.




So: I see a lot of talk about 'low lift cams' and how they are better for daily drivers. But it seems to me that your valves opening higher would allow more air/fuel in even when the piston moving down more slowly (lower rpm). Am I right that choosing something with very slightly higher lift than stock would bump up the power down low, with the tradeoff of slightly less fuel efficiency?

I am willing to take a slight hit on mileage to increase torque, and I am not looking to go extreme anyways.
The cam I am mostly thinking of is this one
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-8718r1

trouble is, that is a 3-bolt cam. and if i want to preserve the VVT, i need a 1 bolt cam.

so, my research continues. At least for now the engine runs. lack of power, but no bad noises and it does not seem to be about to die. does not smoke or burn oil...
but this needs to be addressed in the near future.




</ramble>

TSP has some nice VVT cams for the 5.3. I would call 'em up, tell 'em what matters most to you, and they'll recommend one of theirs that'll do the job. Biggest thing is to get one that's not just compatible with the 5.3 but actually optimized for it, in my opinion. I had a BTR stage 2 truck cam in my 2012 XL Denali for a while that was better than stock, but I swapped it out for a Cam Motion Stage 2 truck cam that was optimized specifically for the 6.2 and it's a night and day difference. If you end up going with a 3-bolt cam as I did, give Cam Motion a call. They make their truck cams in both low and high-lift versions, but even the high lift version can use upgraded beehive springs with only .553 lift. I'm running the BTR springs on mine and they've been great for 30K now.

Look at the Lobe Separation Angle (LSA) to understand idle quality. The lower the LSA, the more idle chop you'll have. The Cam Motion cam is 115 LSA, for a nice smooth idle.

On the lifters, the problems come if you don't use GM trays. Link bar lifters are better suited to high-rpm and racing applications and when I was doing my research, I found instances of them wearing out the links at higher mileages. If you use GM trays and Chevrolet Performance LS7 lifters, you're getting a factory setup that'll go 400K miles.

 

[tooleyondeck]

trouble is, that is a 3-bolt cam. and if i want to preserve the VVT, i need a 1 bolt cam.

I think your problem there will be finding a VVT tuner depending on where you live. If it were me, and it possibly will be in the future, I would get a cam that retains your factory TC (Truck Norris, Chopababra, etc.) and a DOD/VVT Delete Kit from TSP/BTR/GPI etc., get a tune, and call it a day.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Exactly how old was this old bubba?
At what RpM did it upshift @ WOT?
And did you get it tuned after installing 4.11?
Without a thorough tune, I can understand why it did not live up to expectations.

2001 Suburban. Im not sure about the WOT upshift, as i dont often go to full throttle.
And I only did a tune in the DIY sense with a small Accel Supertuner handheld. I used it to change the gear ratio setting, the tire size setting, and install what they call the '87 octane' tune.

You got a canned tuna. Kinda like walking up to a vending machine to order a burger - you don't get to choose which fixins you get or don't get, or how much or how little ...
Even a mail order tune would suit you - or anyone else - far more idiosyncratically.
So as not to bore you with the full explanation; bet you'd appreciate a transmission that did not upshift so early and would downshift with a wee less prodding.
You'd like 4.11 a whole lot more, I guarantee, even if you're not a leadfoot like me.
Even before Engine Half@$$, one of the hidden benefits of a thorough tune, your transmission will last longer.

 

[JKaechler]

Am I understanding correctly that the VVT has its impact up in the high rev ranges, and its absence would not really affect my general usage? mostly driving in the 1200-2500 RPM range, and getting higher mostly when getting on the freeway..... or the occasions when i stomp on the gas because its fun

I would get a cam that retains your factory TC (Truck Norris, Chopababra, etc.

I think I missed an acronym here... TC? Torque Convertor? If so, thats already been replaced recently with a billet one that is supposed to be the same performance as stock, but tougher. my transmission guy told me that the factory one was done for (not a surprise) and recommended the beefier replacement.



I think you guys have convinced me about proper tuning. Is there a way to do it right myself? HP TUner? Being an IT guy by trade i am certainly not afraid of some programming. Are there any shops in Central Texas who can do it? and what kind of budget for tuning do i need to plan for?

 

[Foggy]

The VVT Tuning is no big deal... If your VVT cam is "bigger" then yes, you
will need to install a limiter at time of install - not a big deal..
And VVT is most active in the mid rpm range from the factory...
It reduces reversion in the intake manifold and gives better MPG...
Not really a performance type of device, it's a MPG device.
But either way, the tuning part of it is just 1 table in HPTuners

 

[Marky Dissod]

Am I understanding correctly that the VVT has its impact up in the high rev ranges?
and its absence would not really affect my general usage?

No. GM LS VVT makes MORE low-RpM torque by retarding the camat lower RpMs & smaller throttle openings.

The "parked" or standard position for VVT engines is full advance.
Beyond a certain RpM, over a certain TPS%, VVT basically relaxes as RpMs climb.
In other words, the way normal people drive, it is usually in effect, improving MpGs & low-RpM torque.

 

[Foggy]

No. GM LS VVT makes MORE low-RpM torque by retarding the camat lower RpMs & smaller throttle openings.

The "parked" or standard position for VVT engines is full advance.
Beyond a certain RpM, over a certain TPS%, VVT basically relaxes as RpMs climb.
In other words, the way normal people drive, it is usually in effect, improving MpGs & low-RpM torque.

I repectfully disagree.. and maybe there's something I don't know... But the VVT tables
from GM are set up ONLY to retard cam timing... Not able to advance.
That's why they use a tiny cam and then add it some cam retard up at the
top rpm to make it "act" like a larger cam...

Retarding a cam at LOW Rpm would make it "act" like a much larger cam ---
Exactly what you Don't want in low rpm/torque demand situations.
It retards the cam timing in the low/mid rpms to reduce intake manifold vacuum
and therefore less reversion increasing MPG and light throttle cruising speeds.
And then a little cam retard up near the top rpm to get the little cam to "act" like
a bigger one for the high rpm power increase..
It's like getting a small cam and medium cam all in one !!!!

 

[Foggy]

To add: when you install a larger than stock VVT cam (especially with higher lift)
you have to install a cam limiter so the VVT can't change the cam timing more
than 20*, otherwise you'll kiss the valves to the pistons since these engines
have a pretty tight PTV clearance anyway... Lot diff than the old small blocks chevys
I built (and continue to) for many years.
But it a "non adjustable cam timing" set up, you can either choose the
big cam for high end power or the little one for low end and better driveability.
That's why these modern engines can idle at 550 rpm and pull all the way
up to 6500 Rpm smoothly with a great tq/hp curve.
I chose to stay with VVT and go as small as possible to keep my low end
TQ for towing with a 6K Lb Truck.
If it was a camaro/vette/ hot rod, I'd ditch the VVT and just go with a bigger/more
aggressive cam

 

[Marky Dissod]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/advantages-using-vvt-cam-gen-iv-gen-v-engine/

Read it.

 

[Foggy]

Even then, this greater movement is limited to light throttle applications where the cam is retarded to reduce manifold vacuum. By minimizing intake manifold vacuum, less negative work is done, which offers a slight benefit to fuel mileage.

The "parked" or standard position for VVT engines is full advance. So when viewing the VVT table on a HP Tuners or EFILive edit screen, you will see a chart with mostly doubledigit numbers. These numbers represent the amount of retard tuned into the system.

This is pasted from the article linked... (its gen V, but gen IV is similar)
EXACTLY what I said earlier... I don't see the argument Marky Dissod
??????????

 

[Foggy]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/advantages-using-vvt-cam-gen-iv-gen-v-engine/

Read it.

Even then, this greater movement is limited to light throttle applications where the cam is retarded to reduce manifold vacuum. By minimizing intake manifold vacuum, less negative work is done, which offers a slight benefit to fuel mileage.

The "parked" or standard position for VVT engines is full advance. So when viewing the VVT table on a HP Tuners or EFILive edit screen, you will see a chart with mostly doubledigit numbers. These numbers represent the amount of retard tuned into the system.

Exactly what I said earlier... I don't see where you think VVT can ADVANCE the cam timing