AFM/DoD Delete Advice Needed

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Goldwing2000

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Why was AFM disabled to begin with? Was it a problem and failed then had to be disabled? Or was it disabled because we just don't like the idea of coasting using only 4 cylinders? I have been trying to understand this commonly discussed issue since I found this forum.
It's a known failure point. It's not a question of IF the AFM system will fail, it's a question of WHEN.
Disabling it seems to prolong the inevitable, as does more frequent oil changes and better quality synthetic oil but it will still fail eventually.
 

solli5pack

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Just going to chime back in here and repeat what I said in the second post. You will need to replace the cam. 99.9% of the people on these fourms that deleted AFM replaced the cam. I used a mild GM one that apparently is used in GM vans and it works great. If money is tight then just keep driving it until it blows up. I dont remember reading about anyone who has reused the AFM cam and it working long term.
 

Marky Dissod

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Why was AFM disabled to begin with? Was it a problem and failed then had to be disabled?
Or was it disabled because we just don't like the idea of coasting using only 4 cylinders?
I have been trying to understand this commonly discussed issue since I found this forum.
Engine Half@$$ was a bad idea to start with, even if GM had spared no expense on the V4 mode parts so that they'd outlast the full time V8 parts.
Attacking "don't like the idea of coasting using only 4 cylinders", because I've a particularly unique experience with it that others ought to learn from.

Had my ecm tuned in 2013 to INCREASE both the likelihood of V4 Mode AND length of its duty cycles when in effect, which was a huge mistake -
only so much can be done to improve the fuel economy of a 5900lb vehicle, but me and my tuner tried (it was a lease).
Anytime my '12 Yukon XL SLT was in 3rd 4th 5th or 6th / +21MpH, under light load & TPS% meaning lazy driving, the Engine Half@$$ed to TRY to save gas. TRY.
For what it's worth my tuner (see my sig) did a great job, whenever I even considered fun, it was already in V8 mode (and it'd already downshifted too),
but most of the time I spend driving for uber/lyft/juno/gett/via, I was in V4 mode TRYING to save gas. Basically, it worked for about 1.5-2 years.
After that, MpG started to go down. After about 2.5-3 years, MpG was worse than prior to the ecm tune, despite me trying to drive even more conservatively.
In 2016, oil consumption hit at least 1Qt every 1000 miles if not more - part-time cylinders were sucking oil past their rings into those combustion chambers.

Despite changing the oil every 2500-3000 miles (monthly) with Group4 synthetic, the problem I'm talking about in this post regarding Engine Half@$$
is that the part-time V4 cools down and warms up & cools down chronically, while the full-time V4 keeps a far more steady temp.
Unfortunately the full-time V4 can only do so much to keep the part-time V4 warm,
ask Chrysler about engine blocks that cleaved/shattered from staying in V4 mode too long.
My tuner and I were aware of this, so we limited how long V4 mode would stay in effect in any one instance, but it was longer than GM OE.

The long-term result of V4 mode, even if you manage to avoid all the other potential component failures that have been documented by thousands,
is that the part-time V4 wears out sooner than the full-time V4. The longer the engine lasts, the worse the fuel economy gets, both in V4 mode and in V8 mode,
because the full-time V4 is dragging the other 4 lazy worn out cylinders. Turns out I wore out sooner than anyone elses without intending to,
but every other engine that has not yet disabled Engine Half@$$ will eventually age out the same way, even if the lazy cylinders don't carbon up like mine did.

This post is NOT about lifter failures / slipping or bent pushrods / rocker failures / cam lobe wear, or even TCC wear eventually taking out the 6L80E.
Tens of thousands of posts out there about those.
My '12 Y-XL SLT never experienced ANY of those failure modes. Still should've disabled Engine Half@$$ first chance I got. Everyone else too.
 

SaintMiles

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It seems like folks are having trouble with the AFM after disabling it(or in Marky case, trying to expand it). Does it fail more when left alone, or after messing with the factory program for it?
 

mikez71

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There is only reduced risk by disabling it.

One likely exception.. if you use a plugin device, and must remove it for emissions testing.
 

rdezs

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It seems like folks are having trouble with the AFM after disabling it(or in Marky case, trying to expand it). Does it fail more when left alone, or after messing with the factory program for it?
By using a plug-in disabler, you prevent the system from engaging and disengaging thousands of times in a month. Every time it engages or disengages cylinders, you run the risk of a failure. You've got solenoids and lifters reacting constantly. The plug-in device stops all this action from happening, it reduces the risk of a failure.

Some people have ran for thousands of miles with no issue using their disabler. Sometimes the lifters collapse, take out the cam, spread metal throughout the engine, etc. it's a roll of the dice.

That's where peace of mind comes in. If you'd rather not be rolling the dice on if your engine is going to implode, you do the full AFM delete. It really simplifies the valve train, and greatly reduces the chance of any issues.
 

Marky Dissod

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It seems like folks are having trouble with the AFM after disabling it (or in Marky's case, trying to expand it).
Uh, no. Sooner you disable Engine Half@$$, the better.
(If you wait til you have chronic emphysema before you quit smoking, you might avoid worse or you might not,
but you'd've been better off not smoking to begin with - and yes we all know someone who knows someone who smokes 2 packs a day harmlessly.)
Does it fail more when left alone, or after messing with the factory program for it?
If fails both more often and sooner when left to operate as GM intended - it was intended to improve CAFE MpG scores.
In the real world it is not as fuel efficient, becomes less effective over time/miles, will eventually wear out the TCC,
and is very likely to cause valvetrain damages in the long term worse than if it had been disabled.

Disable Engine Half@$$ as soon as reasonably possible, delete when the opportunity arises. That's the long story short.
 
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mikez71

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Sorry if I was acting pissy towards you @Kwing.

In my searches, the number saying you don't need a new cam, is nowhere near the amount saying you do.
The ones that say you don't, never seem to follow up, or even recant what they said.
Numerous posts where they kept the AFM cam, and the engine did not run right. @RET423, do you have any updates?

While every performance shop, cam manufacturer and magazine will say you do need a new cam.
I find it unlikely that they put their reputation on the line and conspired for 20 years, and nobody figured them out yet.

If you discover otherwise, that will be a lesson forsure...
Actual numbers are great, and I hope you update us with your data.
 
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j91z28d1

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Sorry if I was acting pissy towards you @Kwing.

In my searches, the number saying you don't need a new cam, is nowhere near the amount saying you do.
The ones that say you don't, never seem to follow up, or even recant what they said.
Numerous posts where they kept the AFM cam, and the engine did not run right. @RET423, do you have any updates?

While every performance shop, cam manufacturer and magazine will say you do need a new cam.
I find it unlikely that they put their reputation on the line and conspired for 20 years, and nobody figured them out yet.

If you discover otherwise, that will be a lesson forsure...
Actual numbers are great, and I hope you update us with your data.


you found good data on the lobe lift being higher. it does make me wonder on the new LT engines with all 8 cyl DFM. could you drop standard lifters on there, gain a little more hp from having more cam lol. and in that case all 8 being the same anyways
 

RET423

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The DOD Delete Theory thread is mine, I did it because of frustration like is mentioned here; lots of dogmatic opinions that didn't make sense if you understand how internal combustion engines work

You can visually inspect the cam lobes once the lifters are out, mine looked great so it was a perfect candidate to experiment on; I wouldn't have tried it otherwise as this rig is my wife's daily driver

It's been 2 years, no issues at all, engine is smooth, has great power and is driven every day; except for a rear main seal leak the car is flawless & she loves it

I tried to document everything in that thread so it's a bit windy but as long as the pushrod lengths are within spec after reassembly & the cam has no lobe damage; I found no mechanical reason to change the cam
 

Marky Dissod

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The DOD Delete Theory thread is mine, I did it because of frustration like is mentioned here;
lots of dogmatic opinions that didn't make sense if you understand how internal combustion engines work

You can visually inspect the cam lobes once the lifters are out, mine looked great so it was a perfect candidate to experiment on;
I wouldn't have tried it otherwise as this rig is my wife's daily driver

It's been 2 years, no issues at all, engine is smooth, has great power and is driven every day; except for a rear main seal leak the car is flawless & she loves it

I tried to document everything in that thread so it's a bit windy but
so long as the pushrod lengths are within spec after reassembly & the cam has no lobe damage;
I found no mechanical reason to change the cam
Please link to thread?
 

RET423

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mikez71

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Thanks for the update @RET423!

I stand corrected in believing all AFM deletes would require a non-AFM cam...
And you didn't need different pushrod lengths either.
I wonder if all the threads about misfires were VVT or gen5 motors, or some other variable... (it's all propaganda!?)

In the Summit Racing description for Comp Cams' XFI AFM cams, the Gen5 cams mention 4 different lobe profiles..
...but the Gen4 listing make no mention of the number of lobe profiles.

Hopefully @Kwing can provide some numbers...
 
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