Let's sift through every square inch of a 2013 Tahoe PPV

[89Suburban]

Weather permitting, I will be back at Byron for night racing on Friday 7/28.

Does anybody want to sell me the trim piece for the drivers side rear window? The L-shaped one at the lower rear corner of the window.

I broke mine hauling lumber sticking out the window through the bars.

I need them for both sides as well.

 

[Caddylack]

Time to refresh the front end.

Any suggestions? I need UCAs, lower ball joints, and hubs.

I have some play in the steering but not sure where it’s coming from.

 

[Marky Dissod]

If you want to upgrade past OE, Cognito and Kryptonite are the two brand names that spring to mind.

 

[iamdub]

Time to refresh the front end.

Any suggestions? I need UCAs, lower ball joints, and hubs.

I have some play in the steering but not sure where it’s coming from.

IMO, you can't beat what it left the factory with. These are branded "GM Genuine" or "AC Delco OE". AC Delco "Gold" (formerly "Professional") and AC Delco "Silver" (formerly "Advantage") are aftermarket. Gold/Professional is the better of the aftermarket, but still likely won't last as long. For hubs, I suggest Timken. Timken is or was the OEM supplier of hub assemblies for GM. You might find a Timken hub in an AC Delco or GM Genuine box, but pay a lot more for it than if it was in a Timken box. You don't need to replace the LCA bushings? I've always just replaced the whole arm. You get new bushings and you don't have to bother with pressing out and in the ball joints. Same idea for the UCAs.

 

[Caddylack]

IMO, you can't beat what it left the factory with. These are branded "GM Genuine" or "AC Delco OE". AC Delco "Gold" (formerly "Professional") and AC Delco "Silver" (formerly "Advantage") are aftermarket. Gold/Professional is the better of the aftermarket, but still likely won't last as long. For hubs, I suggest Timken. Timken is or was the OEM supplier of hub assemblies for GM. You might find a Timken hub in an AC Delco or GM Genuine box, but pay a lot more for it than if it was in a Timken box. You don't need to replace the LCA bushings? I've always just replaced the whole arm. You get new bushings and you don't have to bother with pressing out and in the ball joints. Same idea for the UCAs.

Well, at first glance, the lower bushings looked okay. The “front end kits” for these cars don’t include any lower stuff. It’s actually possible my lowers have already been replaced (cactus).

Does the PPV use a different LCA, or am I misremembering? I feel like there were both aluminum and steel lowers.

Timken seems like the right choice for hubs, but they do make two different part numbers at different price levels.

On uppers: Why not go beefier? The problem solver arms are thicker, and same with TTX.

 

[Caddylack]

IMO, you can't beat what it left the factory with. These are branded "GM Genuine" or "AC Delco OE". AC Delco "Gold" (formerly "Professional") and AC Delco "Silver" (formerly "Advantage") are aftermarket. Gold/Professional is the better of the aftermarket, but still likely won't last as long. For hubs, I suggest Timken. Timken is or was the OEM supplier of hub assemblies for GM. You might find a Timken hub in an AC Delco or GM Genuine box, but pay a lot more for it than if it was in a Timken box. You don't need to replace the LCA bushings? I've always just replaced the whole arm. You get new bushings and you don't have to bother with pressing out and in the ball joints. Same idea for the UCAs.

Well, at first glance, the lower bushings looked okay. The “front end kits” for these cars don’t include any lower stuff. It’s actually possible my lowers have already been replaced (cactus).

Does the PPV use a different LCA, or am I misremembering? I feel like there were both aluminum and steel lowers.

Timken seems like the right choice for hubs, but they do make two different part numbers at different price levels.

On uppers: Why not go beefier? The problem solver arms are thicker, and same with TTX.

Oh, I wanted to mention…

I noticed my RWD PPV appears to have 4x4 hubs in the front. Rock Auto listings make me think the PPVs were all like this. Why?

 

[Sparksalot]

Oh, I wanted to mention…

I noticed my RWD PPV appears to have 4x4 hubs in the front. Rock Auto listings make me think the PPVs were all like this. Why?

Both of my PPVs had them as OEM. The hub is a bit stronger in some manner.

 

[89Suburban]

Both of my PPVs had them as OEM. The hub is a bit stronger in some manner.

I thought 4WD hubs could not run safely without the stub shaft installed?

 

[kbuskill]

I thought 4WD hubs could not run safely without the stub shaft installed?

This was true on many of the older 4wd hubs, like the ones used on 1st Gen S-10s, however the newer trucks use a roll formed bearing which means that the bearing's tension is pre-loaded at the time of manufacturing so it doesn't require an axle or stub shaft to hold it together.

This is from one of the manufacturers websites :

• Increased Durability: Designed with roll forming to lock internal components for a set preload right out of the box; Increased assembly stiffness reduces vibration and improves part life

 

[Sparksalot]

I thought 4WD hubs could not run safely without the stub shaft installed?

Unlike jeeps, ours are properly engineered.

 

[Caddylack]

Okay, so… Do I buy the 4x4 Timken?

 

[89Suburban]

Have heard arguments from the other side of the fence on this in here but good to know what you guys think. If I decide to remove my 4WD components this is one of the things I am looking on guidance for. I had already planned to use stub shafts from donor axles to use as a safeguard.

 

[Sparksalot]

I don’t see w

Okay, so… Do I buy the 4x4 Timken?

I don’t see why not. These have been in thecopcar for 20k miles. Replaced original 4wd hubs at 190k.

@89Suburban

 

[iamdub]

Does the PPV use a different LCA, or am I misremembering? I feel like there were both aluminum and steel lowers.

I think the 4WD and AWD models got the aluminum parts to help offset the additional weight from the front drive components. The XFE (eXtra Fuel Efficiency) models, although 2WD, got them as well for weight reduction. You can't mix-and-match between the setups because the ball joints are a different size and/or taper. You either switch everything (knuckle included) or nothing.

Timken seems like the right choice for hubs, but they do make two different part numbers at different price levels.

I haven't looked into this any further than recently seeing that they have an outsourced line from China or Korea or something like that. My guess is it's for them to offer premium quality vs. budget-priced options, just like AC Delco with their three tiers. Again- just my guess based on what I read recently and your mention of two different price levels. Back in the day, it was Timken, plain and simple: US-made, quality assured, etc.

On uppers: Why not go beefier? The problem solver arms are thicker, and same with TTX.

If the OE arms regularly go 150K miles, what problem are they solving? As far as I know, it's the ball joints and bushings that are the wear items, not the arms bending or breaking. If I were to find undeniable accounts of the Problem Solver and TTX arms holding up as well as the OE arms for the same mileage, then I'd consider them. What I know of the beefier aftermarket brands is, while they may be made of heavier-duty parts, the wear points still seem to wear out much sooner. Go with what you know unless you need heavier-duty components that would over stress OE parts. Planning on doing some rigorous off-roading?

 

[kbuskill]

I think the 4WD and AWD models got the aluminum parts to help offset the additional weight from the front drive components. The XFE (eXtra Fuel Efficiency) models, although 2WD, got them as well for weight reduction. You can't mix-and-match between the setups because the ball joints are a different size and/or taper. You either switch everything (knuckle included) or nothing.




I haven't looked into this any further than recently seeing that they have an outsourced line from China or Korea or something like that. My guess is it's for them to offer premium quality vs. budget-priced options, just like AC Delco with their three tiers. Again- just my guess based on what I read recently and your mention of two different price levels. Back in the day, it was Timken, plain and simple: US-made, quality assured, etc.




If the OE arms regularly go 150K miles, what problem are they solving? As far as I know, it's the ball joints and bushings that are the wear items, not the arms bending or breaking. If I were to find undeniable accounts of the Problem Solver and TTX arms holding up as well as the OE arms for the same mileage, then I'd consider them. What I know of the beefier aftermarket brands is, while they may be made of heavier-duty parts, the wear points still seem to wear out much sooner. Go with what you know unless you need heavier-duty components that would over stress OE parts. Planning on doing some rigorous off-roading?

The Moog CK "problem solver" arms aren't any more heavy duty, as far as the arm itself, at least not that I am aware of. The "Problem Solver" part is for the ball joints. Their advertising says...

• Problem Solver® Gusher Bearing -- Metal-to-metal design provides strength and allows grease to flow through bearing surface for reduced friction and long life
• Greasable Design -- Reduces corrosion and wear by allowing new lubricant to flush contaminants
• Keeps Dirt And Water Out -- Pre-installed dust boot shields socket components from wear-causing contaminants
• Absorbs Impact -- Belleville preload washer helps keep the bearing package tight as bearings wear
• Quiet Operation -- Premium pre-installed bushings with optimized stiffness inhibit noise for a more comfortable ride

So Gusher bearing and greasable. The greasable part is why I went with them as I always felt like GM removing the zerk fittings on the factory parts was a stupid idea designed to save them money, not to extend the life or ease of maintenance for the end user.

GM cheaped out and found many ways to save money on the GMT900s compared to the GMT800s... no zerk fittings on front end components, no cabin air filter, no courtesy lights in the door panels, no lights under the hood just to name a few.

 

[iamdub]

The Moog CK "problem solver" arms aren't any more heavy duty, as far as the arm itself, at least not that I am aware of. The "Problem Solver" part is for the ball joints. Their advertising says...

• Problem Solver® Gusher Bearing -- Metal-to-metal design provides strength and allows grease to flow through bearing surface for reduced friction and long life
• Greasable Design -- Reduces corrosion and wear by allowing new lubricant to flush contaminants
• Keeps Dirt And Water Out -- Pre-installed dust boot shields socket components from wear-causing contaminants
• Absorbs Impact -- Belleville preload washer helps keep the bearing package tight as bearings wear
• Quiet Operation -- Premium pre-installed bushings with optimized stiffness inhibit noise for a more comfortable ride

So Gusher bearing and greasable. The greasable part is why I went with them as I always felt like GM removing the zerk fittings on the factory parts was a stupid idea designed to save them money, not to extend the life or ease of maintenance for the end user.

GM cheaped out and found many ways to save money on the GMT900s compared to the GMT800s... no zerk fittings on front end components, no cabin air filter, no courtesy lights in the door panels, no lights under the hood just to name a few.

The AC Delco "Professional", AKA "Moog CK Series" I installed have "Problem Solver" debossed in the top of the ball joint. They seem fine other than the subpar boot material. I do appreciate the zerks. If I can't make them OE aluminum arms work, I might see if the boots from them will fit the Moog arms.

 

[Caddylack]

A. My PPV has aluminum LCAs. For handling?

B. The problem solver UCAs definitely appear to be thicker.

C. What are my options for upgraded bushings? Anything?

 

[iamdub]

A. My PPV has aluminum LCAs. For handling?

Weight reduction. The weight is so low that it doesn't really affect handling. Maybe they did this on 2WD PPVs since they knew they'd be rigged out with extra stuff so it's a little step towards countering the additional weight. If anything, they'd counter the weight of the extra battery these things often had.

B. The problem solver UCAs definitely appear to be thicker.

They could be. But I've never heard of a stock one breaking under normal- or even considerably heavy use.

C. What are my options for upgraded bushings? Anything?

Depends on what you consider an "upgrade". For handling, polyurethane or, if you have the budget, Delrin. But, you'll feel and probably hear 'em! For upgrading a primarily street-driven vehicle's handling, I'd do new LCA assemblies or new rubber bushings in them and poly in the uppers, if not just new UCA assemblies or new rubber bushings.

 

[Caddylack]

I noticed that the Nolathane site accepted my capital one cash back or whatever, so, I bought the sway bar package.

38mm front and 33mm rear.

Weeeeeeeeee!

 

[iamdub]

I noticed that the Nolathane site accepted my capital one cash back or whatever, so, I bought the sway bar package.

38mm front and 33mm rear.

Weeeeeeeeee!

You're gonna love the stability in fast cornering. Makes the steering a "point and shoot" affair.