Electric Suburban / Electric Tahoe / Yukon / Escalade EV

[Polo08816]

Lol u pretty much proved my point on the lightning with towing. And all your battery range in cold weather is ev cars. This forum is about big suv EV’s weighing probably 6000 lbs+? With 4-6 people and possibly luggage weighing it down as well. I’m just saying the first 5-10 years of GM and Ford doing EV’s is not going to go well. Majority of people on this forum will look at big suvs and trucks, and the f-150 lightning is not doing well so far when u wana use it for truck stuff. If u just drive back and forth to work and never tow and charge at home then sure it’s ok. But long distance travel and or tow, bad news.

Find me an EV charging station that can accommodate an EV pickup truck with a 16+ foot trailer hooked up lol.

 

[DuraYuk]

Find me an EV charging station that can accommodate an EV pickup truck with a 16+ foot trailer hooked up lol.

This is a shortsight for sure because most dont have pass thrus. Partly due to space. But something that needs to be thought of for sure. Good point.

 

[Geotrash]

Bob Lutz (my favorite auto industry executive) has a great perspective on this debate. EV's aren't the solution for most of us. Plug-in hybrids are. 30-50 miles of range on battery power will cover 90% of the trips that most folks have running around town and commuting. But the gasoline engine is there when needed to extend the range or help handle towing duty in a truck. The problem? Complexity. Cost. Maintainability.

 

[DuraYuk]

Bob Lutz (my favorite auto industry executive) has a great perspective on this debate. EV's aren't the solution for most of us. Plug-in hybrids are. 30-50 miles of range on battery power will cover 90% of the trips that most folks have running around town and commuting. But the gasoline engine is there when needed to extend the range or help handle towing duty in a truck. The problem? Complexity. Cost. Maintainability.

I am a fan of plug ins. And just hybrids in general. Toyota hybrids are stupid reliable. Seems like they found a way to keep it reliable even when it is complex. A diesel hybrid would be so sweet

 

[Geotrash]

I am a fan of plug ins. And just hybrids in general. Toyota hybrids are stupid reliable. Seems like they found a way to keep it reliable even when it is complex. A diesel hybrid would be so sweet

Agreed. And, adding 30-50 miles of range can be done with a standard 20A household circuit overnight, simplifying the infrastructure requirements.

 

[DmaxDenaliXL]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't see full electric getting my attention until a next gen battery is utilized. Range, especially with respect to towing, is the main detractor for me. I'd be all over a plug in hybrid with ~50 miles of on board electric range and the 3.0L diesel coupled to a generator to keep batteries topped up and motors humming when range is exceeded or towing. Tune the engine to run at a fixed RPM that has been optimized for efficiency.

Locomotive EMDs have been doing this for decades.

Hydrogen is even more embryonic than full electric so, despite what is hyped, it isn't a viable option for decades. There is no cost effective way to generate hydrogen, compress it, etc. Doesn't make sense to even discuss it. Manufacturers are wasting their time even developing engines for it. (I have 15 years in generating power from renewables. 90% of our business is ICE engines fueled by biogas, landfill gas, etc. So I pay a lot of attention to new renewable fuel tech.)

 

[Polo08816]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.
I don't see full electric getting my attention until a next gen battery is utilized. Range, especially with respect to towing, is the main detractor for me. I'd be all over a plug in hybrid with ~50 miles of on board electric range and the 3.0L diesel coupled to a generator to keep batteries topped up and motors humming when range is exceeded or towing. Tune the engine to run at a fixed RPM that has been optimized for efficiency.

Locomotive EMDs have been doing this for decades.

Hydrogen is even more embryonic than full electric so, despite what is hyped, it isn't a viable option for decades. There is no cost effective way to generate hydrogen, compress it, etc. Doesn't make sense to even discuss it. Manufacturers are wasting their time even developing engines for it. (I have 15 years in generating power from renewables. 90% of our business is ICE engines fueled by biogas, landfill gas, etc. So I pay a lot of attention to new renewable fuel tech.)

For me, I need to be able to go at least 400 miles on a single charge while towing because there are no EV charging stations that can accommodate a EV truck with a trailer at the moment. Also, they need to account for battery age based degradation. I think we're looking at 900-1200 miles of range unloaded.

 

[swathdiver]

Tune the engine to run at a fixed RPM that has been optimized for efficiency.

If memory serves, American diesel generators run at 60 Hz and so the generators turn 1800 rpms or 3600 rpms and the Euro standard is 50 hertz and those generators turn 1500 and 3000 rpms. I think a 60hz genset can also turn at 2400 rpms but it's been a long time since I thought about such things.

 

[DmaxDenaliXL]

If memory serves, American diesel generators run at 60 Hz and so the generators turn 1800 rpms or 3600 rpms and the Euro standard is 50 hertz and those generators turn 1500 and 3000 rpms. I think a 60hz genset can also turn at 2400 rpms but it's been a long time since I thought about such things.

Mostly correct, but what is cool about EV is that they don't use AC, so RPM/frequency doesn't matter. The battery and motor side is all DC. Therefore, the manufacturers could design the engine around an optimum RPM and then design the inverter to handle whatever that is. Inverters can handle any range of incoming voltage and frequency that they are designed for.

 

[BlaineBug]

You tow up a steep mountain loaded in a gas or diesel? Hate to break it to you but range becomes abysmal.

It's evident some don't here so they think the ev with less range in those conditions is some outliers.

It's typical for a gasser to get 6mpg when loaded towing. Sometimes less.

That's why I said it's misinformation because it is.

Say what? I thought mileage went up when towing a heavy load up a step grade! How could I be so wrong, and who mislead me along the way?

 

[BlaineBug]

Mostly correct, but what is cool about EV is that they don't use AC, so RPM/frequency doesn't matter. The battery and motor side is all DC. Therefore, the manufacturers could design the engine around an optimum RPM and then design the inverter to handle whatever that is. Inverters can handle any range of incoming voltage and frequency that they are designed for.

American electricity IS 60 hertz, correct. 50 hertz may be for europe or somewhere else.

 

[BlaineBug]

No one said it wouldn't drop. Have you towed before? Why is that surprising then?

Its misinformation because you are saying a vehicle with a nominal range of 300 somehow is broken when it can't get that range when loaded.

So you are trying to misinform by choosing and picking your data points. Similar to how you said the cold reduces your range down to nothing after i showed you charts to the contrary.

How do you think mpg is determined? Hoovie is entertainment. Tfl is more respectable but if you only gained that range was reduced up a very steep mountain in the cold then I think you missed the point of their video completely.

Ford F-150 Lightning Vs Gas Truck Towing Range: Same Load, One Fill-Up

Most EVs don't have as much range as gas-powered vehicles, and towing makes a big impact. How limited is the Lightning's towing range on a single charge?

insideevs.com

Ford F-150 Lightning Real-World Towing Test: How Far Can It Go?

A towing range test is a good way to set a baseline. This family tows with their new F-150 Lightning to estimate range loss and compare it to their Rivian R1T.

insideevs.com

Ford F-150 Lightning winter towing tests and engineer interview

Ford has been taking some hits in the media on the F-150 Lightning towing range, so we thought it would be good to test it ourselves and then get the background from the people who built the Lightning.

electrek.co

It sucks because rather then having some real discussion you have resorted to under table politics. This being a forum about vehicles and not politics i will leave the discussion here as I don't come here for that nonsense.

Take care !

The problem here is REFUELING/RECHARGING Time, that's what the gripe is about. And the longevity/lifespan of the batteries as well as influence from temperature extremes which can decrease range dramatically.

When we're apples to apples with ~5 minute refueling time for maximum range, a 200,000+ mile truck without needing battery replacement, and no significant influence from weather conditions just like an internal combustion or diesel motor, then we can have a logical discussion. We're nowhere near that kind of discussion though, and, don't know when we will be.

 

[BlaineBug]

Bob Lutz (my favorite auto industry executive) has a great perspective on this debate. EV's aren't the solution for most of us. Plug-in hybrids are. 30-50 miles of range on battery power will cover 90% of the trips that most folks have running around town and commuting. But the gasoline engine is there when needed to extend the range or help handle towing duty in a truck. The problem? Complexity. Cost. Maintainability.

Extra crap that just increases the price.

 

[DuraYuk]

The problem here is REFUELING/RECHARGING Time, that's what the gripe is about. And the longevity/lifespan of the batteries as well as influence from temperature extremes which can decrease range dramatically.

When we're apples to apples with ~5 minute refueling time for maximum range, a 200,000+ mile truck without needing battery replacement, and no significant influence from weather conditions just like an internal combustion or diesel motor, then we can have a logical discussion. We're nowhere near that kind of discussion though, and, don't know when we will be.

Toyota's bz4x battery retains 90% after 10 years. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...es-durability-of-battery-in-bz4x-electric-suv

We are making progress. Everything takes time. Charging times are getting less and less. Its still cheaper then gas or diesel.

The goal is to transition. It's not happening overnight. Solid state is almost here. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38711469/toyota-solid-state-batteries-2025/

Gas and diesel have just now gotten efficient. It took decades. Batteries are getting there much sooner and quicker by comparison. And have much less to go wrong.

Some people stick to the old stuff. No big deal either way. The world will change regardless.

Some people still have land lines. Some still have rotary phones. It is what it is.

 

[Geotrash]

Extra crap that just increases the price.

For you, perhaps. For me, it makes an electric vehicle actually viable for the ways I use our vehicles.

 

[randeez]

The problem here is REFUELING/RECHARGING Time, that's what the gripe is about. And the longevity/lifespan of the batteries as well as influence from temperature extremes which can decrease range dramatically.

When we're apples to apples with ~5 minute refueling time for maximum range, a 200,000+ mile truck without needing battery replacement, and no significant influence from weather conditions just like an internal combustion or diesel motor, then we can have a logical discussion. We're nowhere near that kind of discussion though, and, don't know when we will be.

you charge it up every night, you leave the house EVERY day with a full tank. the only time its a problem is when you get in the vehicle and travel 300+miles if youre doing that daily then sure an EV is not for you. I can argue stopping and getting gas is annoying the 5 minutes you have to spend refueling 10x a month is almost an hour of wasted time that someone with an EV doesnt have to do.

range after 200,000 miles - you think a combustible engine is still running 100% efficiency it left the factory with? EVs losing 10% sounds horrible...till you realize a truck that left the factory getting 20mpg 200,000 miles later if its still getting 18mpg thats also a 10% loss

 

[DuraYuk]

you charge it up every night, you leave the house EVERY day with a full tank. the only time its a problem is when you get in the vehicle and travel 300+miles if youre doing that daily then sure an EV is not for you. I can argue stopping and getting gas is annoying the 5 minutes you have to spend refueling 10x a month is almost an hour of wasted time that someone with an EV doesnt have to do.

range after 200,000 miles - you think a combustible engine is still running 100% efficiency it left the factory with? EVs losing 10% sounds horrible...till you realize a truck that left the factory getting 20mpg 200,000 miles later if its still getting 18mpg thats also a 10% loss

That's one of the best things. Waking up with a full tank. I think we can all say how much we hate making that morning gas station run.

And your right. No truck or car is still as efficient when new at 200k miles. Plus evs have way less to go wrong.

I think it's still less about the tech being wrong and more about people being averse to change.

 

[randeez]

i gave up on this thread a long time ago...while the "gas prices in your area" thread blows up in parallel. it's just amazing, people lose their minds when gas goes up a couple bucks a gallon, but refuse to take any steps to wean dependence off oil and keep spreading the same old talking points. have such a fear of some hypothetical entity getting rich off EVs, instead lets stick with the same half a dozen companies that manipulate oil prices while raking in billions every year

 

[DuraYuk]

i gave up on this thread a long time ago...while the "gas prices in your area" thread blows up in parallel. it's just amazing, people lose their minds when gas goes up a couple bucks a gallon, but refuse to take any steps to wean dependence off oil and keep spreading the same old talking points. have such a fear of some hypothetical entity getting rich off EVs, instead lets stick with the same half a dozen companies that manipulate oil prices while raking in billions every year

Amen man. I never understood the gas price thing myself. People complaining over 25 to 50 cents. Hell even 2 dollars more a gallon and its what 50 bucks extra on 25 gallons? That's the breaking point? Lol.

It's talking points they are regurgitating not logic.

 

[BlaineBug]

i gave up on this thread a long time ago...while the "gas prices in your area" thread blows up in parallel. it's just amazing, people lose their minds when gas goes up a couple bucks a gallon, but refuse to take any steps to wean dependence off oil and keep spreading the same old talking points. have such a fear of some hypothetical entity getting rich off EVs, instead lets stick with the same half a dozen companies that manipulate oil prices while raking in billions every year

Many people don't realize fuel prices have been at their lowest when we were energy independent and drilling here in the USA just a few years ago. We need to go back to an oil-friendly stance rather than oil-hostile!