Replacement motor questions but hopefully fixable

[rockdogz]

I can’t help but to compare the prior generation of LS engines before they introduced AFM that run 400-500,000 miles with basic maintenance. So in my mind, I would have to delete all that unnecessary and complicated crap that’s only there to bring GM’s overall fuel mileage into the EPA’s guidelines. The fuel savings aren’t worth it IMO. I’d rather have a solid design that lasts pretty much forever. I wouldn’t even wait for failure either- I’d delete it immediately. I did go through that decision phase when I was looking for a bagged NNBS Silverado and had come to the conclusion that if the truck I ended up with had AFM, a full delete was one of the first things that I would do, and while I was in there I’d do a nice cam to add more power. Luckily the truck ended up without AFM but I still did the cam. As far as California…the more I’m reading about their ability to read the ECM tune and compare it to a stock one and reject emissions if it has been altered means to me that any engine that isn’t stock in that state is not going to be on their highways for much longer. I’ll never live in a state that does that.

Makes sense and I would do that if I didn’t have to worry about smog in CA. I am hopeful that by installing the updated VLOM, driver’s side valve cover, updated intake gaskets, oil pump, etc. that it will last easily another 200k miles assuming the bottom end stays intact.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Makes sense and I would do that if I didn’t have to worry about smog in CA. I am hopeful that by installing the updated VLOM, driver’s side valve cover, updated intake gaskets, oil pump, etc. that it will last easily another 200k miles assuming the bottom end stays intact.

The bottom ends are pretty stout on the LS platform. I don't think I've read where anyone has ever had an issue with it. Mostly it's been top end issues.

 

[TollKeeper]

Unless your running some REAL horsepower..

I believe the LS engines to probably be one of the best in the world.

Now I just want them to bring back the Jeep 4.0

 

[wsteele]

I can’t help but to compare the prior generation of LS engines before they introduced AFM that run 400-500,000 miles with basic maintenance. So in my mind, I would have to delete all that unnecessary and complicated crap that’s only there to bring GM’s overall fuel mileage into the EPA’s guidelines. The fuel savings aren’t worth it IMO. I’d rather have a solid design that lasts pretty much forever. I wouldn’t even wait for failure either- I’d delete it immediately. I did go through that decision phase when I was looking for a bagged NNBS Silverado and had come to the conclusion that if the truck I ended up with had AFM, a full delete was one of the first things that I would do, and while I was in there I’d do a nice cam to add more power. Luckily the truck ended up without AFM but I still did the cam. As far as California…the more I’m reading about their ability to read the ECM tune and compare it to a stock one and reject emissions if it has been altered means to me that any engine that isn’t stock in that state is not going to be on their highways for much longer. I’ll never live in a state that does that.

I don't disagree with your logic, but then the OP's failure looks like the roller seized versus anything to do with AFM per se. I doubt there are any stats on how many collapsed AFM lifters there are out there, versus seized rollers, but I know it happens to standard lifters as well.

In the end, the whole world is going the way CA is going, all the bureaucrats attend the same best practices conferences and more than half the world seems to buy into the notion that we have a genuine climate crisis on our hands, so I think it is only a matter of time before we all are driving stock EV's anyway (or maybe they will be driving us...).

 

[rockdogz]

I know I will need to remove the front diff, but can the pan be dropped? Or do you have to just lower it enough to get the new gasket on?

 

[Rocket Man]

I don't disagree with your logic, but then the OP's failure looks like the roller seized versus anything to do with AFM per se. I doubt there are any stats on how many collapsed AFM lifters there are out there, versus seized rollers, but I know it happens to standard lifters as well.

In the end, the whole world is going the way CA is going, all the bureaucrats attend the same best practices conferences and more than half the world seems to buy into the notion that we have a genuine climate crisis on our hands, so I think it is only a matter of time before we all are driving stock EV's anyway (or maybe they will be driving us...).

Uh hem…we do have a climate crisis but I’m not going to argue that point here. I’m not going to quit doing what I do though. My state will never be like CA. We don’t even HAVE emissions testing in 95% of the state and probably never will so if it ever gets to where I can’t pass some new tests, I’ll register my trucks at my brothers address in the middle of the high desert where population is nil. I’ll be dead before we are all driving EV’s too. Good thing I’m old!

 

[Rocket Man]

I know I will need to remove the front diff, but can the pan be dropped? Or do you have to just lower it enough to get the new gasket on?

You can pull the bolts that hold the diff onto the frame and let it droop. You might have to pry down a little, you can always stick a block of wood in there to hold it down a little if necessary. I did that on my 02 Denali.

 

[wsteele]

Uh hem…we do have a climate crisis but I’m not going to argue that point here. I’m not going to quit doing what I do though. My state will never be like CA. We don’t even HAVE emissions testing in 95% of the state and probably never will so if it ever gets to where I can’t pass some new tests, I’ll register my trucks at my brothers address in the middle of the high desert where population is nil. I’ll be dead before we are all driving EV’s too. Good thing I’m old!

Yeah, I never say good thing I am old…. because all things being equal, young is better…

Sorry, got to run and do my back and hip stretches, that hip flexor has been killing me….

 

[Rocket Man]

Yeah, I never say good thing I am old…. because all things being equal, young is better…

Sorry, got to run and do my back and hip stretches, that hip flexor has been killing me….

 

[wsteele]

I know I will need to remove the front diff, but can the pan be dropped? Or do you have to just lower it enough to get the new gasket on?

Here is a video on one guy's approach. It is a Silverado 4x4, but the principles are the same.

watch

The OEM gasket is riveted on (if it hasn't been replaced in the past), so dropping the pan is going to make removal of the old gasket easier. Also, in this video he explains a little about the oil consumption TSB parts (like the AFM pressure relief valve deflector), which I would install if your truck never had it installed.

 

[Rocket Man]

I should have stated that I let my front diff droop in order to get the pan off. You don’t need to completely remove the diff in order to get enough clearance to get it off like that guy in the video. He probably didn’t try prying down which gets you enough room. And plenty of people say you don’t need to rivet the new gasket into the pan but it’s 2 pop rivets and they’re there for a purpose- to keep the gasket in place while you maneuver the pan. IMO you need to drop the pan in order to do anything. Also don’t forget there’s 2 small areas that need a dab of RTV at the rear of the pan where it meets the rear cover when you put it back on, as well as a tightening sequence between the bolts that hold the rear cover to the pan and the main bolts and the torque is important too. If you don’t follow the instructions you’ll end up with leaks. I highly recommend a subscription to alldatadiy which provides access to the service manual and TSB’s. It’s only about $30 for a year iirc.

 

[rockdogz]

How much would a shop charge to do this work? Need something to keep me motivated lol

 

[wsteele]

How much would a shop charge to do this work? Need something to keep me motivated lol

Probably depends a lot on the shop, rates, etc.

I have a really great independent shop nearby and I wouldn't be shocked if he quoted $1500 for the labor component. I think if I took it to our local dealer (who is perhaps the most cost effective dealer I ever saw), maybe $2000 in labor?

 

[Rocket Man]

How much would a shop charge to do this work? Need something to keep me motivated lol

$125 an hour minimum. Plus a big write up on parts. So yeah like Bill said, probably $1500-2000 or even $2500 in labor, plus they’ll mark up the parts by another $500 over what you could buy them for.

 

[rockdogz]

Do you think it’s worth it to replace fuel injectors while I’m doing this?

 

[wsteele]

Many shops have injector test and cleaning equipment and failing that, most diesel repair facilities will have injector service gear. I might consider taking them down for a test, maybe replace the o-rings (like $15 for OE seals), but I wouldn't replace the injectors wholesale.

 

[rockdogz]

I have both heads off, as well as the front timing cover. I have the oil pan bolts off but haven’t dropped it yet. Good news - looks like due to my lift I have plenty of room under the pan and shouldn’t have to mess with the front diff or steering.

I decided to freshen up the heads by getting new springs and going to do some valve lapping by hand. Also replacing the oil pump, all lifters, water pump, VLOM, and timing chain.

 

[rockdogz]

Never mind about the front diff and steering rack. They are being dropped/moved now.

 

[rockdogz]

The cam doesn’t look at bad as I thought it would. Wondering now if this indeed was the problem.

 

[Tonyrodz]

The cam doesn’t look at bad as I thought it would. Wondering now if this indeed was the problem.

To me--the lobes are showing alot of wear. How do the other lifters look?