Will a DOD delete fix a lifter tick?

[thefrey]

Forgive me. At face value, I am sure this sounds like a stupid question.

I also apologize if I'm beating a dead horse here with my excessive postings asking vaguely similar questions... LOL



I am getting a parts list together for a DOD delete. I am slightly worried that for some reason, if I go through and replace all lifters + camshaft, that I will still have a tick. I don't want to spend close to $2,000 on parts and 2-3 days of my time if it for some reason won't fix the issue, or something I could've fixed easier...

I know that a DOD delete should fix the issue.

Perhaps what I am asking is what is the best way to make sure that the issue is 1000% a lifter bleeding down, and not just an issue with a rocker perhaps? I have already tried to take off the pushrods and inspect them, as well as inspect the rockers.

Sometimes the tick is intermittent... For instance, yesterday I started it cold and it was loud and I could hear it ticking most of my drive. Then, 3 hours later I tried to show somebody the tick and it was a "cold" start and it was quiet for probably 10 minutes before it started ticking... I would think that that would point to a lifter bleeding down, rather than an issue with a rocker arm or a pushrod...



Would it make sense to try to throw a lifeline at it to see if it fixes it before doing a full delete? Maybe ATF or marvel mystery oil... I don't know if either of those will actually fix the problem, or just instead make them "quiet" and not fix the true issue.

Any advice is welcome. I know enough to be dangerous, but this is all pretty new to me as far as diagnosing something like this.


I took this slow mo video of my rockers and you can hear a tick. But I can't feel any slack in any of the rockers. I do not know if checking for preload would be the best next route to go.

 

[solli5pack]

@donjetman goes into details on how you can check.

Help me identify if this is an exhaust leak...

Please help me rule out if this is an exhaust leak or not... This is driving me nuts. I do not have enough confidence to diagnose it myself. I have tried to use a long screwdriver but I can't seem to pinpoint it. I have tried to upload a similar thread, but maybe I wasn't asking the right...

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

 

[thefrey]

@donjetman goes into details on how you can check.

Help me identify if this is an exhaust leak...

Please help me rule out if this is an exhaust leak or not... This is driving me nuts. I do not have enough confidence to diagnose it myself. I have tried to use a long screwdriver but I can't seem to pinpoint it. I have tried to upload a similar thread, but maybe I wasn't asking the right...

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

I used his info to get familiar with preload. I guess I don't know how to interpret if the preload is off. I don't think that I can get a longer pushrod with the AFM lifters... right? I would assume that if preload is wrong, then it points to a bad lifter?

My biggest thing is I feel that I am having issues interpreting the issue, not so much doing the motions. I have a general idea but don't know a ton about this stuff.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Tape a leafblower to your exhaust pipe, start blowering. Spray a soapy solution wherever you want to rule out an exhaust leak.
(NOT my idea, works like a charm.)

 

[donjetman]

Forgive me. At face value, I am sure this sounds like a stupid question.

I also apologize if I'm beating a dead horse here with my excessive postings asking vaguely similar questions... LOL



I am getting a parts list together for a DOD delete. I am slightly worried that for some reason, if I go through and replace all lifters + camshaft, that I will still have a tick. I don't want to spend close to $2,000 on parts and 2-3 days of my time if it for some reason won't fix the issue, or something I could've fixed easier...

I know that a DOD delete should fix the issue.

Perhaps what I am asking is what is the best way to make sure that the issue is 1000% a lifter bleeding down, and not just an issue with a rocker perhaps? I have already tried to take off the pushrods and inspect them, as well as inspect the rockers.

Sometimes the tick is intermittent... For instance, yesterday I started it cold and it was loud and I could hear it ticking most of my drive. Then, 3 hours later I tried to show somebody the tick and it was a "cold" start and it was quiet for probably 10 minutes before it started ticking... I would think that that would point to a lifter bleeding down, rather than an issue with a rocker arm or a pushrod...



Would it make sense to try to throw a lifeline at it to see if it fixes it before doing a full delete? Maybe ATF or marvel mystery oil... I don't know if either of those will actually fix the problem, or just instead make them "quiet" and not fix the true issue.

Any advice is welcome. I know enough to be dangerous, but this is all pretty new to me as far as diagnosing something like this.


I took this slow mo video of my rockers and you can hear a tick. But I can't feel any slack in any of the rockers. I do not know if checking for preload would be the best next route to go.

Did you check lifter preload of each lifter?

Correct lifter preload is 3/4/ to 1 & 1/4 turn of the rocker arm stud to 22 ft Lbs after zero lash. Each lifter must be on the base circle to do this. I've posted links to utube videos showing how to do this. If its determined more than 1 & 1/4 turn is recessary a shorter pushrod is necessary. And if less than 3/4 turn you'll need a longer pushrod.

Grabbing a rocker arm and trying ti wiggle it is NOT accomplishing anything meaningful.

If you do all this work, then put in the wrong length pushrod, it will tick.

 

[thefrey]

Did you check lifter preload of each lifter?

Correct lifter preload is 3/4/ to 1 & 1/4 turn of the rocker arm stud to 22 ft Lbs after zero lash. Each lifter must be on the base circle to do this. I've posted links to utube videos showing how to do this. If its determined more than 1 & 1/4 turn is recessary a shorter pushrod is necessary. And if less than 3/4 turn you'll need a longer pushrod.

Grabbing a rocker arm and trying ti wiggle it is NOT accomplishing anything meaningful.

If you do all this work, then put in the wrong length pushrod, it will tick.

I am going to do this probably this weekend. I don't have access to the tools right now to be able to turn over the engine by hand.

I thought that installing a longer/shorter pushrod won't work for the AFM lifters, but I may be incorrect in saying that.

I also am not sure why I would need a longer or shorter pushrod if everything is stock. Perhaps there is wear on a lobe or something. Wouldn't installing a longer/shorter pushrod in order to reduce tick just be a bandaid with the AFM lifters?

 

[Foggy]

Our stock cylinder heads don't have "adjustable valvetrains"
The load/torque number is it... IF your preload is off or the rocker is
not centered on the valve, then your only "adjustability" is change the
pushrod length..
If you putting in a stock non-dod camshaft, then the stock length pushrods
should be very very close if not perfect...
Now, IF you are milling/resurfacing the heads or changing head gasket thickness
from stock THEN you might have to order a specific length pushrod.

I'd recommend changing out rocker arm trunnions to a CHE or Comp style
while everything is apart. The rocker roller bearings can be an issue on
higher mileage engines

 

[thefrey]

Our stock cylinder heads don't have "adjustable valvetrains"
The load/torque number is it... IF your preload is off or the rocker is
not centered on the valve, then your only "adjustability" is change the
pushrod length..
If you putting in a stock non-dod camshaft, then the stock length pushrods
should be very very close if not perfect...
Now, IF you are milling/resurfacing the heads or changing head gasket thickness
from stock THEN you might have to order a specific length pushrod.

I'd recommend changing out rocker arm trunnions to a CHE or Comp style
while everything is apart. The rocker roller bearings can be an issue on
higher mileage engines

I am trying to figure out why I would need a pushrod length adjustment assuming everything is stock.

The last owner did the lifters but I don’t know if they resurfaced the heads or not. Perhaps they mixed up pushrods and that made one lifter/rocker noisy.

 

[donjetman]

I thought that installing a longer/shorter pushrod won't work for the AFM lifters, but I may be incorrect in saying that.

8 of your 16 lifters are afm

I also am not sure why I would need a longer or shorter pushrod if everything is stock. Perhaps there is wear on a lobe or something. Wouldn't installing a longer/shorter pushrod in order to reduce tick just be a bandaid with the AFM lifters?

Setting lifter preload "correctly" will eliminate that as a possible issue. Its easy too.

My 60k mile stock 02 corvette gen3 LS1 had noisy cold start valve train. People on a corvette forum said its "Normal", get over it. NOT.

So I did a little utube research and found the cure = lifter preload. So I checked preload and discovered it took more than 1 & 1/4 turn to reach 22 ft Lbs from zero lash on all my lifters. Borrowed large dial caliper and measured my pushrod length =7.388". That's a weird length. I would have guessed 7.4" or 7.375" from the factory. But who knows what the factory did? or, Did they wear? Doesn't matter. The fact was preload was incorrect, they were too long. I installed 7.350". Lifter preload became 1 turn from zero lash to 22 ft lbs = Noise gone.

 

[thefrey]

8 of your 16 lifters are afm

Setting lifter preload "correctly" will eliminate that as a possible issue. Its easy too.

My 60k mile stock 02 corvette gen3 LS1 had noisy cold start valve train. People on a corvette forum said its "Normal", get over it. NOT.

So I did a little utube research and found the cure = lifter preload. So I checked preload and discovered it took more than 1 & 1/4 turn to reach 22 ft Lbs from zero lash on all my lifters. Borrowed large dial caliper and measured my pushrod length =7.388". That's a weird length. I would have guessed 7.4" or 7.375" from the factory. But who knows what the factory did? or, Did they wear? Doesn't matter. The fact was preload was incorrect, they were too long. I installed 7.350". Lifter preload became 1 turn from zero lash to 22 ft lbs = Noise gone.

Perhaps it would have been good for me to mention that the lifter noise sounds like it’s coming from one of the AFM lifters.

Thanks for the info. A lot of good stuff here.

So what about in the event of the lifter preload being fine? I don’t know if that would be possible, I just don’t know if that would point to a lazy lifter or a failing lifter…

 

[Marky Dissod]

Perhaps it would have been good for me to mention that the lifter noise
sounds like
it’s coming from one of the AFM lifters.

Perhaps it'd've been good to check. Take a long @$$ screwdriver, put one end as close to the suspect lifter as possible,
put the BLUNT end against your ear (please). Not quite as good as a mech-stethoscope, but pretty good for minimal outlay.

 

[thefrey]

Perhaps it'd've been good to check. Take a long @$$ screwdriver, put one end as close to the suspect lifter as possible,
put the BLUNT end against your ear (please). Not quite as good as a mech-stethoscope, but pretty good for minimal outlay.

My extendo screwie didn't seem to pinpoint much... I’lln’t’ve tried listening with a mechanics stethoscope and the valve cover off, but I picked one up the other day.

Video I posted of the valve train noise points to #4 intake or #6 exhaust but it seems to be #4 from hearing it in person, IMO.

 

[j91z28d1]

so what I see is 3 things you can do.

full effort. do the dod delete kit refresh heads and rockers. measure preload and order correct push rod. 99% tick gone. leaving 1% for it not being valve train since I'm not standing there.

half effort, measure all the preload now as is. depending on results. replace with push rod if all are off about the same amount. if you find one that's way out of spec but rest are close to each other. dig into why. either cam lobe, lifter, rocker or even valve stem height.

zero effort, drive it as is. it will either get worse and you'll know for sure or it won't get worse and you're out nothing.

 

[thefrey]

so what I see is 3 things you can do.

full effort. do the dod delete kit refresh heads and rockers. measure preload and order correct push rod. 99% tick gone. leaving 1% for it not being valve train since I'm not standing there.

half effort, measure all the preload now as is. depending on results. replace with push rod if all are off about the same amount. if you find one that's way out of spec but rest are close to each other. dig into why. either cam lobe, lifter, rocker or even valve stem height.

zero effort, drive it as is. it will either get worse and you'll know for sure or it won't get worse and you're out nothing.

My biggest concern is that I would like to drive this on a 2500 mile roadtrip here soon and I don't know if there would be any issues w/ the tick driving for 10-20 hours at a time. I think I'm going to start checking pushrods and see if that points to anything and go from there...

 

[j91z28d1]

to keep old cars in long road trip shape is a different level of upkeep, you need to do OK with doing prevent stuff(spending money before it fails), like replace the fuel pump before it's needed just incase. so basically to be sure, do the full delete including checking push rods and stuff. use oem or better parts and do it soon so you got time to handle issues. if it does still tick after you've done your best, you will atleast know it won't leave you on the side of the road because a afm lifter ate the cam a 1000 miles from home and that the tick was something superficial.


or just rent a car for road trips. rentals can be had pretty cheap with off airport pick ups, using discount codes. surff like usaa and AAA have codes that some times gets you good deals. even my work has a discount code. it's not always cheaper, but it throws in the insurance for free. so it's worth while.

if you don't need a big suv, you can usually do the math and enjoy driving a new car that gets 40 plus mpg for about the same price as you'd pay in fuel cost to take your own 17mpg truck on a long enough trip. and if the new one breaks down, they will bring you a replacement rental.


I recently did a 2k plus mile trip in mine towing my other car. I have 170kish on it, afm is intact but disabled in the tune(no ticking). original fuel pump and mine is a hybrid one, which makes road side/small town repairs basically impossible. I was going to do some stuff to get it up to a better long trip spec, but ran out of time. just crossed my fingers and sent it. it ran perfectly the whole way, but the oil pan leak did get a bit worse. I took a different way home bypassing a buddy's house I was going to visit because of the oil leak that I knew about before leaving. I ended up replacing that when I got back but break downs were on my mind the whole time. luckily I'm pretty resourceful, didn't have the family with me to deal with if it broke down and was towing my car that I could have pulled off to make parts run or just drive the rest of the trip in if needed. but that said, if I didn't need to tow my car there, I'd have 100% flew in and rented a car lol.

good luck with it.

 

[thefrey]

to keep old cars in long road trip shape is a different level of upkeep, you need to do OK with doing prevent stuff(spending money before it fails), like replace the fuel pump before it's needed just incase. so basically to be sure, do the full delete including checking push rods and stuff. use oem or better parts and do it soon so you got time to handle issues. if it does still tick after you've done your best, you will atleast know it won't leave you on the side of the road because a afm lifter ate the cam a 1000 miles from home and that the tick was something superficial.


or just rent a car for road trips. rentals can be had pretty cheap with off airport pick ups, using discount codes. surff like usaa and AAA have codes that some times gets you good deals. even my work has a discount code. it's not always cheaper, but it throws in the insurance for free. so it's worth while.

if you don't need a big suv, you can usually do the math and enjoy driving a new car that gets 40 plus mpg for about the same price as you'd pay in fuel cost to take your own 17mpg truck on a long enough trip. and if the new one breaks down, they will bring you a replacement rental.


I recently did a 2k plus mile trip in mine towing my other car. I have 170kish on it, afm is intact but disabled in the tune(no ticking). original fuel pump and mine is a hybrid one, which makes road side/small town repairs basically impossible. I was going to do some stuff to get it up to a better long trip spec, but ran out of time. just crossed my fingers and sent it. it ran perfectly the whole way, but the oil pan leak did get a bit worse. I took a different way home bypassing a buddy's house I was going to visit because of the oil leak that I knew about before leaving. I ended up replacing that when I got back but break downs were on my mind the whole time. luckily I'm pretty resourceful, didn't have the family with me to deal with if it broke down and was towing my car that I could have pulled off to make parts run or just drive the rest of the trip in if needed. but that said, if I didn't need to tow my car there, I'd have 100% flew in and rented a car lol.

good luck with it.

preciate the info.

I drive a lot for work so I'm consistently driving between 1-3 hours away and the car hasn't given me any issues at all. It's just the tick, but it's been a tick that it's had ever since I've owned it and it really hasn't gotten worse in the past 20k miles... I would feel way more comfortable knowing if it won't leave me stranded, but I don't know if it's just a superficial tick or something to be concerned about that needs attention asap.

 

[donjetman]

In the next 3 months We'll be doing three 2000+ mile trips in our ole 201k mile 07 Denali in remote western USA. I do 100% of its mx. It's not showing any weakness so I'm not worried but ya never know

 

[SpareParts]

Where in remote western USA?