Tony’s express van engine upgrade/swap

[Tonyv__]

Tuning a van is no different from tuning any other vehicle.

My Diablo tuner won’t connect. Reached out to them and they just said it wasn’t a supported vehicle.

Gonna do some more research, maybe I can just find a local tuner. My biggest concern is turn around time. If all goes well, I’ll have the engine completely assembled, then do the swap in a weekend so I’ll have the van back up asap.

And regardless of the cam or not. I have to get the original pcm flashed to 6.0 tune or see if I can install the PCM from the donor van.

The donor pcm is from a 2016 but my van is a 2012. I know a tech 2 still works on my van but not sure how it will cooperate with the 2016 pcm (assuming it even fits) to do a vin program on it.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Tuning a van is no different from tuning any other vehicle.

This

 

[strutaeng]

Yeah, the tuning should not be a problem. On the tuning side, all that it matters is that you have a 6.0/6L90 I'm pretty sure.

Last I checked a few years ago, HP tuners supported up to the 2020 Express Van, so I think that means anything under that should be able to get to the system tuned for that aftermarket cam. For a large heavy van, a mild cam should be perfect.

Yes, go ahead and replace the cam bearings while you are there. I'm not sure where the internet idea of "don't look at the cam bearings" came from. Absolutely makes not sense to me if the engine is on the stand. If I had to guess, it probably became popularized by the kids doing a cam swap with their old Chebby's with 250,000+ miles and looking for that budget "chop chop" sound and wanting to do burnouts on the way to McDonalds...

 

[Tonyv__]

Yeah, the tuning should not be a problem. On the tuning side, all that it matters is that you have a 6.0/6L90 I'm pretty sure.

Last I checked a few years ago, HP tuners supported up to the 2020 Express Van, so I think that means anything under that should be able to get to the system tuned for that aftermarket cam. For a large heavy van, a mild cam should be perfect.

Yes, go ahead and replace the cam bearings while you are there. I'm not sure where the internet idea of "don't look at the cam bearings" came from. Absolutely makes not sense to me if the engine is on the stand. If I had to guess, it probably became popularized by the kids doing a cam swap with their old Chebby's with 250,000+ miles and looking for that budget "chop chop" sound and wanting to do burnouts on the way to McDonalds...

Unless steered otherwise, I was looking at the trucknorris cam. Preferably the one that doesn’t recommend a higher stall converter.

 

[strutaeng]

Unless steered otherwise, I was looking at the trucknorris cam. Preferably the one that doesn’t recommend a higher stall converter.

Cool. Is it this one?

BTR GEN III & IV LS TRUCK NORRIS CAM

BTR GEN III & IV LS TRUCK NORRIS CAM 212/22X, .553/.553, 107 LSA

briantooleyracing.com

It's nice they even have power curves...

I went with the Summit Racing SUM-8718R1 on my 06 Suburban 2500 LQ4, and very happy with it. Check that one out too, but you'd have to get the VVT deleted. Summit has a promo deal right now, and they should have the BTR cam as well. I'm not savvy enough on cams and cam specs, I'll be honest.


My Suburban has 4.10s and for a heavy vehicle, it does pretty good. I actually prefer driving the LQ4/4L80e/4.10 over our 2020 L96/6L90/3.42 because I find it more responsive. However, the L96 does seem to make a bit more more on the higher RPM. Not a true comparison, of course. The Express would be better with 3.73 I feel. It seems to cruise at a lower RPM and moderate throttle on the highway will almost always cause it to downshift, whereas the 4L80e/4.10 just goes because it's cruising where it's already making more power.

What gears do you have on your van?

 

[strutaeng]

Here is my engine rebuild thread on my 06, in case it you want to read through it. There's a link on post #18 for the the Gen III 6.0 service manual PDF. There are some differences between the Gen IV, but the basic architecture is the same and it may help you out:

TTY head bolts with engine in-vehicle

I finally finished cleaning the pistons! Today I washed the block. Soapy water, brush cleaning kit, then dried immediately with compressed air and sprayed it with PB Blaster. I decided to do a quick paint with Rust-Oleum, paintbrush special. I also realized one of my motor mounts is broken...

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

 

[Tonyv__]

Cool. Is it this one?

BTR GEN III & IV LS TRUCK NORRIS CAM

BTR GEN III & IV LS TRUCK NORRIS CAM 212/22X, .553/.553, 107 LSA

briantooleyracing.com

It's nice they even have power curves...

I went with the Summit Racing SUM-8718R1 on my 06 Suburban 2500 LQ4, and very happy with it. Check that one out too, but you'd have to get the VVT deleted. Summit has a promo deal right now, and they should have the BTR cam as well. I'm not savvy enough on cams and cam specs, I'll be honest.


My Suburban has 4.10s and for a heavy vehicle, it does pretty good. I actually prefer driving the LQ4/4L80e/4.10 over our 2020 L96/6L90/3.42 because I find it more responsive. However, the L96 does seem to make a bit more more on the higher RPM. Not a true comparison, of course. The Express would be better with 3.73 I feel. It seems to cruise at a lower RPM and moderate throttle on the highway will almost always cause it to downshift, whereas the 4L80e/4.10 just goes because it's cruising where it's already making more power.

What gears do you have on your van?

That looks like the one I was looking at. I recall there being 3 stages. The lowest one was ok with stock converter, the next one up says recommend higher stall, the 3rd one said higher stall was required.

Vvt delete was on the table if I do the cam.

I have the lowest gears. I believe 3.42. I feel like that doesn’t help but that’s something I can revisit. I looked into it last spring but never pulled the trigger on it. I almost bought a trutrack rear but chickened out. Looks like a lot of work for someone who’s never did gears before.

 

[Tonyv__]

Finally got a decent sound clip of the violence going on in my engine. Haven’t tracked down exactly what it is. Stethoscope sounds like it’s coming from the top of the engine though.

 

[Tonyrodz]

Finally got a decent sound clip of the violence going on in my engine. Haven’t tracked down exactly what it is. Stethoscope sounds like it’s coming from the top of the engine though.

Lifter tap?

 

[BlackBearPerf]

I’m torn on pulling the cam, but again, new bearings = reassurance. If I pull the cam, I’d love to do a VVT delete and dabble around with a small cam upgrade. Not a must, but id like to play around a bit.

Biggest problem with the cam though, not many tuners list support for the express van, and id love to not have to visit a tuner in person for time constraint reasons

Diablo has confirmed no compatibility for the express van.

Blackbear website doesn’t show compatibility, any insight on this @BlackBearPerf ?

HPtuners is compatible but I’m not sure if they offer a remote tuning option? I’d much rather do this on my time than finding a performance shop near me

We can provide tuning for the Express Van models. Thank you for pointing out that those models are not in our Supported Vehicle list. We need to get those added. Since you are swapping out the ECM, it would be best to send us an email using our Contact Us page so the tuner can review your setup.

 

[Tonyv__]

We can provide tuning for the Express Van models. Thank you for pointing out that those models are not in our Supported Vehicle list. We need to get those added. Since you are swapping out the ECM, it would be best to send us an email using our Contact Us page so the tuner can review your setup.

Well I’ll add one more question here just to keep a history trail before I contact your website

can I just leave the 4.8 ecm in since it’s already functional and won’t need a vin program? Or do I need to start with a 6.0 ecm?

I don’t see the need for an extra step if that 4.8 ecm is capable of being tuned to what I need. If that’s the case

 

[Tonyrodz]

Well I’ll add one more question here just to keep a history trail before I contact your website

can I just leave the 4.8 ecm in since it’s already functional and won’t need a vin program? Or do I need to start with a 6.0 ecm?

I don’t see the need for an extra step if that 4.8 ecm is capable of being tuned to what I need. If that’s the case

I had the same question when I had my 03 4.8 swapped to a 6.0.
The tuner told me the ECMs --4.8 and 6.0--we're the same, so no need to swap them. He rewrote over the stock ecm. I'd think your van would be the same thing.

 

[Tonyv__]

I had the same question when I had my 03 4.8 swapped to a 6.0.
The tuner told me the ECMs --4.8 and 6.0--we're the same, so no need to swap them. He rewrote over the stock ecm. I'd think your van would be the same thing.

I kind of assumed an ecm could be tuned to 6.0 parameters. Thanks

I only got the donor ecm just in case. The guy threw it in the deal. Who knows if it even works or if it really came from the van lol.

 

[Tonyv__]

Well, I never intended to go this deep into the engine, but here I am.

cam bearings are out and it’s time to order some stuff.

 

[SpareParts]

That's what happens to me a lot to!
Any pics of the cam bearings? What do the pistons look like?

 

[Tonyv__]

That's what happens to me a lot to!
Any pics of the cam bearings? What do the pistons look like?

No it was late. They looked ok at first sight but I didn’t wipe them down for further inspection.

If I get a chance I’ll upload some more pics tonight

 

[strutaeng]

Well, I never intended to go this deep into the engine, but here I am.

cam bearings are out and it’s time to order some stuff.
View attachment 479432View attachment 479431

Remove the press-fit oil galley plug at the front under the timing cover, barbell restrictor at the rear, and the allen coolant/oil passages and buy one of those engine brush kits that have the riffle-looking brushes and wash it with Dawn dish soap. Immediately blow it off with compressed air and spray it with WD-40 or similar.

Are you going to do a ball-hone of the cylinder walls? If so, do that before washing it. Or are you not tearing into the bottom end?

Did you decide on the camshaft? I would use a new set of lifters. I know the Summit Racing camshafts have a note that say you have to install new lifters with their cams.

Durabond CH-25 cam bearings is what I've used on the late Gen III/Gen IV. I bought their dedicated LS cam install tool and it worked very well.

 

[Tonyv__]

Remove the press-fit oil galley plug at the front under the timing cover, barbell restrictor at the rear, and the allen coolant/oil passages and buy one of those engine brush kits that have the riffle-looking brushes and wash it with Dawn dish soap. Immediately blow it off with compressed air and spray it with WD-40 or similar.

Are you going to do a ball-hone of the cylinder walls? If so, do that before washing it. Or are you not tearing into the bottom end?

Did you decide on the camshaft? I would use a new set of lifters. I know the Summit Racing camshafts have a note that say you have to install new lifters with their cams.

Durabond CH-25 cam bearings is what I've used on the late Gen III/Gen IV. I bought their dedicated LS cam install tool and it worked very well.

Ok I’ll look for the oil galley plug. I knew about the barbell in the rear.

As far as ball hone. I’m trying this

Camshaft, not yet. Someone in an LS group made a valid point that the L96 blocks are already equipped in 2500 and 3500 trucks. The stock cam is built for the weight/towing. I’ll have to do some more research before deciding.

new lifters regardless.


The cam bearing tool I used was a long rod with a cone thing on it to center the rod. Then you just beat the bearings out. I’m assuming reverse technique to install lol.

 

[SpareParts]

If it's the universal style cam bearing tool from what i read/videos it's a little tricky to use. The Summit dedicated LS cam bearing tool is excellent and $90
Clean that thing good. I have washed mine about 5 times to get it clean and for sure use the brushes.
When you are honing if that starts to chatter STOP or it will ruin the bore.

 

[Tonyv__]

That's what happens to me a lot to!
Any pics of the cam bearings? What do the pistons look like?

Not looking as good as I thought. Idk what the dark spots mean. The 5th bearing is MIA