The KidWagon

[KidWgn]

Then, adjust them as necessary to dial in the pinion angle as it has likely changed some with the drop parts.

any idea what the pinion angle SHOULD be?

 

[Doug118]

View attachment 411777

No no. You guys just aren’t as stupid as I am

 

[Doug118]

any idea what the pinion angle SHOULD be?

I didn’t read through the first few pages but do you have the trailing arm relocation brackets already? There shouldn’t be a pinion angle issue. I would measure it now and make it exactly the same when you change the arms

I personally would remove both bottom arms, measure them, then make the Spohn ones 1/2” longer. Then do the same for the top

 

[KidWgn]

I didn’t read through the first few pages but do you have the trailing arm relocation brackets already? There shouldn’t be a pinion angle issue. I would measure it now and make it exactly the same when you change the arms

I personally would remove both bottom arms, measure them, then make the Spohn ones 1/2” longer. Then do the same for the top

I do. I also hate them. I think it’s a poor design that should be welded into place, not secured with a single bolt running vertically.

I think I’m going to try to recreate the correct angle without using those brackets.

 

[KidWgn]

I guess I never posted pictures of the actual units! They’re a thing of BEAUTY.

 

[iamdub]

It happens between 65-75 mph. The intensity is sporadic, but it FEELS like a wheel out of balance. It's a left to right shake, for sure, not a "bounce". Doesn't happen at all during low speeds or during braking.

I was trying to rule out a bent axle flange with the braking questioning. So, different wheels and rotated, etc. but the shake remains in the rear. Hmm...

Very great idea on making the jig for repeatability. I'm a machinist by trade, so I have all kinds of handy measuring tools; I'll probably just measure them with a 24" ruler down to the hundredth. I wish I had access to the machines at home, that I do at work. I work for Boeing, so it's pretty frowned upon to bring in "home projects" lol.

Shiiiit... I'm preaching to the choir. Being a machinist, you already have a handle on it with basic tools and a trained eye. I might be needing the assistance of a machinist when I get to building my rear upper control arms. The bushing sleeves are SAE but I wanna use the stock bolts, which are metric. I have options, but having custom sleeves made with a metric ID and SAE OD would be the bee's nuts.

 

[Doug118]

I do. I also hate them. I think it’s a poor design that should be welded into place, not secured with a single bolt running vertically.

I think I’m going to try to recreate the correct angle without using those brackets.

I ended up welding mine after that single bolt came loose

 

[iamdub]

any idea what the pinion angle SHOULD be?

Well, Mr. Boeing Machinist, did you not measure all of these critical points BEFORE you started hacking away?

I have mine recorded somewhere. Before I dropped it, I measured all the corners and stuck a magnetic protractor to the driveshaft, rear pinion snout, etc.

I've made no measurements after the drop, assuming the LCA relocators accounted for this. Having no noises or issues otherwise with the original 225K-mile U-joints in excess of 145 mph, I assume it's fine.

Talk sweet to me or just ask me repeatedly and I'll eventually get you the numbers I have so you can have something for reference. GM is known to have comparatively loose manufacturing tolerances in the larger systems where they're less critical. So, my numbers may not be so applicable to yours. I'd say they would be plenty close enough to be a start.

 

[iamdub]

No no. You guys just aren’t as stupid as I am

Someone has to find the limits!

 

[iamdub]

I do. I also hate them. I think it’s a poor design that should be welded into place, not secured with a single bolt running vertically.

I think I’m going to try to recreate the correct angle without using those brackets.

Mine have been in place for about 30K miles. Never touched 'em after installation. I'm not gentle on my suspension. And mine have two vertical bolts plus the two horizontal ones that go through the original arm mounting point.

This reminds me that my Tahoe Twin buddy with the same drop components has had his right side bolts work loose at least twice.

 

[KidWgn]

I was trying to rule out a bent axle flange with the braking questioning. So, different wheels and rotated, etc. but the shake remains in the rear. Hmm...

That's on my "list" too. I want to get 3.43 or 3.73 gears anyway, and swapping the entire axle will surely be easier than swapping the gearset. I have no idea how to set lash and whatnot, and even if I YouTubeUniversity it, I'd rather let a professional set that up if I have to. Overall, I'd rather replace the entire axle.

Shiiiit... I'm preaching to the choir. Being a machinist, you already have a handle on it with basic tools and a trained eye. I might be needing the assistance of a machinist when I get to building my rear upper control arms. The bushing sleeves are SAE but I wanna use the stock bolts, which are metric. I have options, but having custom sleeves made with a metric ID and SAE OD would be the bee's nuts.

Wouldn't call myself the choir. While I am a machinist by trade, most of what I do is hand layout stuff, although we do use a lathe fairly often. I doubt I could make them here, but I have several friends who could! I'm willing to bet any machine shop local to you would do it, too, but they're going to be expensive. Why not just buy adjustable uppers? I'm assuming you have a vision for something not offered in the market, because you're you and that's a very you thing to do

I ended up welding mine after that single bolt came loose

If I can't recreate the correct angles, I'm going to grind the paint off and drive it to a local speedshop that has a drive-on rack, and have them weld the sumbitches. Stupid arsed design for sure.

Well, Mr. Boeing Machinist, did you not measure all of these critical points BEFORE you started hacking away?

Of course I did...n't. Why on earth would I have the foresight to do something that intelligent?!

View attachment 411871

Better be careful...my pants are getting tight...

I have mine recorded somewhere. Before I dropped it, I measured all the corners and stuck a magnetic protractor to the driveshaft, rear pinion snout, etc.

I've made no measurements after the drop, assuming the LCA relocators accounted for this. Having no noises or issues otherwise with the original 225K-mile U-joints in excess of 145 mph, I assume it's fine.

Talk sweet to me or just ask me repeatedly and I'll eventually get you the numbers I have so you can have something for reference. GM is known to have comparatively loose manufacturing tolerances in the larger systems where they're less critical. So, my numbers may not be so applicable to yours. I'd say they would be plenty close enough to be a start.

See above.

Mine have been in place for about 30K miles. Never touched 'em after installation. I'm not gentle on my suspension. And mine have two vertical bolts plus the two horizontal ones that go through the original arm mounting point.

This reminds me that my Tahoe Twin buddy with the same drop components has had his right side bolts work loose at least twice.

Yours have TWO vertical bolts??? Mine only have the one, which "matches" the hole in the stock location. I put that in quotes because I still had to take a rotary file to it for it to go through on the left side. This is part of what makes me think the adjustable arms will make things match.

 

[KidWgn]

No no. You guys just aren’t as stupid as I am

Did you cut the lip on the front fenders, or roll them? From looking at them, they look too wide to roll without baconizing the fender. I'm going to give them a whirl with a cutoff wheel and a rotary file this weekend.

 

[Doug118]

Did you cut the lip on the front fenders, or roll them? From looking at them, they look too wide to roll without baconizing the fender. I'm going to give them a whirl with a cutoff wheel and a rotary file this weekend.

Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT try to roll the fenders on our trucks. I attempted to roll them when I did 26’s but completely ****** them so I cut the entire inner fender out

 

[KidWgn]

Do not, and I repeat, DO NOT try to roll the fenders on our trucks. I attempted to roll them when I did 26’s but completely ****** them so I cut the entire inner fender out

That's what I figured. I'm not new to fender rolling, and that's one helluva lip to try to roll.

I only need to remove about a 6" length of the lip, right at the center of the arch. Because my wheels are 24x10 +25, they stick out a tad.

With the adjustable control arms I ordered for the front, I'm hoping to dial in closer to 2-degrees of camber, instead of the currently 1.5-degrees, which will help the tire tuck as it articulates into the wheel well.

 

[iamdub]

That's on my "list" too. I want to get 3.43 or 3.73 gears anyway, and swapping the entire axle will surely be easier than swapping the gearset. I have no idea how to set lash and whatnot, and even if I YouTubeUniversity it, I'd rather let a professional set that up if I have to. Overall, I'd rather replace the entire axle.

Agreed. I've done it once and hated every minute of it. Too many fully-assemble-then-torques just to measure and find you gotta disassemble and add, remove or relocate shims. Granted this was on a Jeep (Chrysler era axle) and I was installing an aftermarket locker. Still, we have a few shops in the area that specialize in all things driveline. Mine has 3.73 gears but I want a Detroit Truetrac diff. It'd 100% be worth it to me to pay a pro for this.

I'm willing to bet any machine shop local to you would do it, too, but they're going to be expensive.

With the oil and chemical industries here, there are an abundance of fab shops. It's easy to "get someone that knows someone" to make something so simple. I've outsourced small precision projects before, but this was years ago. Of course, this is only when necessary. The part I'm working with can have slop when being assembled cuz, once it's bolted down, it doesn't move. The bushing rotates around the sleeve. I could wrap some shim stock around the bolt and it'd be good. I haven't compared the factory bolt sizes and the sleeve IDs yet. It might be as simple as drilling the sleeve slightly bigger to fit the bolt. I'll invest in a specific size of drill bit (12mm, 14mm, etc.) for that.

Why not just buy adjustable uppers? I'm assuming you have a vision for something not offered in the market, because you're you and that's a very you thing to do

The adjustable ones are expensive and I can make my arms for about $70 at most. That's with me buying the forged rod ends (~$25 each). I could make 'em for as little as ~$25 if I make the rod ends and only have to buy the tube adapters (~$12 each). I have the steel and poly bushings on hand already- leftovers from other projects. Also, the adjustable ones are designed so that you leave them installed and turn the centers or adjusting nuts. While convenient, it's extra specialized parts (left- and right-hand threaded stuff, etc.) that aren't necessary, IMO. I'm not gonna be adjusting these things all the time. My idea is simple bushed ends with one end being adjustable. I'll remove the bolt, swing the end out of the tabs, twist the end in or out to shorten or lengthen the arm, lock the jamb nut then slip it back in the tabs and reinstall the bolt. A half turn is plenty fine enough adjustment. Once it's set, I'll never mess with it again. Paying for the extra parts to make adjusting them a little easier is a waste. I also don't want or need rebuildable Delrin ends. I wanna minimize the things I do that degrade the ride quality. When I make the lowers, they'll be new factory arms with their factory rubber bushings, cut in half, lengthened, spliced and boxed. Also, bcuz kustom.

Better be careful...my pants are getting tight...

See above.

Behave yo self. @pwtr02ss and @randeez are jealous types.

Yours have TWO vertical bolts??? Mine only have the one, which "matches" the hole in the stock location. I put that in quotes because I still had to take a rotary file to it for it to go through on the left side. This is part of what makes me think the adjustable arms will make things match.

I'm pretty sure. I know the shock extender has a single vertical bolt.



...Shit. Now I gotta go check. Which means I gotta go out to the shop. Which means I gotta get dressed. Which means you read a lot of words that I typed while almost naked. And your pants got tight. You're welcome.

 

[KidWgn]

With the oil and chemical industries here, there are an abundance of fab shops. It's easy to "get someone that knows someone" to make something so simple. I've outsourced small precision projects before, but this was years ago. Of course, this is only when necessary. The part I'm working with can have slop when being assembled cuz, once it's bolted down, it doesn't move. The bushing rotates around the sleeve. I could wrap some shim stock around the bolt and it'd be good. I haven't compared the factory bolt sizes and the sleeve IDs yet. It might be as simple as drilling the sleeve slightly bigger to fit the bolt. I'll invest in a specific size of drill bit (12mm, 14mm, etc.) for that.

Now...a specialized reamer size I may be able to help you out with Definitely use a reamer, not a drill bit.

The adjustable ones are expensive and [...] bcuz kustom.

Half a turn is NOT going to be as precise as you think for setting pinion angle. We're talking tenths of a degree here.

Behave yo self. @pwtr02ss and @randeez are jealous types.

We can all share. That's fine. I got family in loozyanna anyway, over there in Ball, north of Alexandria.

I'm pretty sure. I know the shock extender has a single vertical bolt.

...Shit. Now I gotta go check. Which means I gotta go out to the shop. Which means I gotta get dressed. Which means you read a lot of words that I typed while almost naked. And your pants got tight. You're welcome.

 

[iamdub]

Yours have TWO vertical bolts??? Mine only have the one, which "matches" the hole in the stock location. I put that in quotes because I still had to take a rotary file to it for it to go through on the left side. This is part of what makes me think the adjustable arms will make things match.

I lied. It's one vertical bolt. I was thinking of the two holes in the bracket. This is because the hole in the axle mount is offset so they put two holes so the brackets can be used on either side. My bad.

Regardless, I've never had a problem. Maybe I just lucked up. I also didn't use a torque wrench. Just applied some good healthy ugga duggas from a 1/2" impact gun. Maybe it's due to part manufacturing variances in batches. Remember what I said about loose tolerances?

 

[KidWgn]

I lied. It's one vertical bolt. I was thinking of the two holes in the bracket. This is because the hole in the axle mount is offset so they put two holes so the brackets can be used on either side. My bad.

Regardless, I've never had a problem. Maybe I just lucked up. I also didn't use a torque wrench. Just applied some good healthy ugga duggas from a 1/2" impact gun. Maybe it's due to part manufacturing variances in batches. Remember what I said about loose tolerances?

That'll do it. i think I just tightened mine with a 3/8 ratchet and some oomphs. I did put a split-ring washer on it, though, and it still rattled loose. Can't wait to put these damn arms on Saturday afternoon.

 

[iamdub]

Now...a specialized reamer size I may be able to help you out with Definitely use a reamer, not a drill bit.

Noted. A reamer sounds more fun, anyway.

Half a turn is NOT going to be as precise as you think for setting pinion angle. We're talking tenths of a degree here.

Fine thread in the rod end plus I'll reverse-calculate the link length so that each half turn equates to even increments of .25 degrees.


...Not really. I'll weld shit together and spray paint it and whatever I get will be plenty good enough.

We can all share. That's fine. I got family in loozyanna anyway, over there in Ball, north of Alexandria.

Been through there plenty of times on 165. Get through it in about four minutes. Maybe two traffic lights, if that.

I'm glad the .gif worked in the reply box. You almost left me hangin.

 

[KidWgn]

Noted. A reamer sounds more fun, anyway.

REAMER!? I hardly KNOW'ER!

Fine thread in the rod end plus I'll reverse-calculate the link length so that each half turn equates to even increments of .25 degrees.

...Not really. I'll weld shit together and spray paint it and whatever I get will be plenty good enough.

Not gonna lie...I laughed out loud pretty damn hard at that

Been through there plenty of times on 165. Get through it in about four minutes. Maybe two traffic lights, if that.

Ball is definitely a tiny lil town. My favorite place there is the liquor store, Ball Liquor (say it out loud). My uncle Michael still lives there. The other 3 Lynch boys moved to STL when they were younger. Funny enough, Michael was born here, then moved back to Loozyanna. We call him Joe Dirt. Looks like him AND sounds like him, but with more loozyanna twang. If I ever get back down that way any time soon, I'll look you up. Be cool to have a couple beers and a crayfish boil!

I'm glad the .gif worked in the reply box. You almost left me hangin.

Damn, you're ON IT. For some reason the GIF didn't work the first time. Couldn't have been but a minute between me posting and editing it!