Negative camber only in reverse?

[Colby_e32]

Offset bushings are installed correctly. 100% sure. They were installed in the arms when I purchased.

I marked everything with a paint marker before disassembly, reinstalled exactly as before.

The adjustment cams are maxed out, I know that for sure because I tried adjusting them previously, and they are set to where the camber would be max positive.

I don’t trust any alignment guy or shop guy, I’ve always done my own work, very familiar with this truck and many others.

here are a couple pictures of the cams, and the arms. I’ll get some pictures of each part tomorrow. I was told to try some aftermarket cams, which may require egging or slotting the holes in the frame which is fine.

truck does drive really good now the toe is correct. Keys ride much smoother than de cranked stock torsion keys. However I know this camber and caster will probably wear my tires fast.

 

[Colby_e32]

here are the cams. working from left to right. Outside being closest to the front of the truck, inside being closest to the rear axle.

 

[1992rs]

That was going to be my next suggestion. Something like the belltech cams, and open the slots on the frame a little more.

To be quite honest, I feel like the tech didn’t know what he was doing or too lazy to put in the work. There’s really no reason why it wouldn’t align into spec.

I’ve dabbled with alignments myself here and there, but my favorite tech even said that these aren’t the easiest to align, especially lowered. Just not a lot of room to get to the cams

Good luck. I’m curious to see the outcome. Hopefully you get everything squared away without too much hassle.


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[1992rs]

here are the cams. working from left to right. Outside being closest to the front of the truck, inside being closest to the rear axle.

View attachment 261678 View attachment 261679 View attachment 261680 View attachment 261681 View attachment 261682

Didn’t see the pictures before I replied. That’s a head scratcher for sure to be that far away from spec and maxed out. I’d say aftermarket cams is the best solution for the time being.


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[exp500]

Just so we are on same page- Top of tire leaning in both sides? If so, rotate bushings 180 degrees. AND MARK them. it sounds like they were moving in control arm in reverse. Many of these have to be loctited and staked to not move.

 

[exp500]

When you are assembling these, It must be done at ride height so the offset angles are correct. Easy to check with your gauge, but spindle must be mounted. It is a real PITA to assemble measure disassemble. The Cams are only to give you a little adjustment room- fine tuning. You may need offset ball joints or other crazy stuff like bend frame straight. Torsion bars last to go in. know what I mean? Mix and match parts makes it worse.

 

[Colby_e32]

Just so we are on same page- Top of tire leaning in both sides? If so, rotate bushings 180 degrees. AND MARK them. it sounds like they were moving in control arm in reverse. Many of these have to be loctited and staked to not move.

I follow what you’re saying. I had LESS camber before installing these arms. I had negative 1.8 degrees driver side, and negative 1.6 degrees passenger side.

everyone says the offset faces the engine. Which is the way they are in. I did not install the bushings. They are moog problem solver control arms.

I think rotating them would only make the problem worse, but I won’t know until I try it.

 

[exp500]

You kinda answered my concerns. But you Still never answered about is it still changing in reverse after alignment? So you installed UCA bushings to push control arm out and you are still negative. Then adjusted cams max and still negative. Nothing loose up front. If you added an offset Lower ball joint, would those dimensions work with tire clearances? Push lower outboard. Offset upper clearances? After those then its Adjustable control arms (upper). You really don't want front end moving around, ride height changes, alignment changes just because you changed direction of travel.
The UCA you bought were 2 degree? Check lower ball joints.

 

[exp500]

Re-read everything. More questions. did you compare UCA's, measure them? Verify part numbers?
Did you only change lower ball joint or control arm? Change LCA bushings? Bet bushings shot or you are sitting on something too.

 

[Colby_e32]

You kinda answered my concerns. But you Still never answered about is it still changing in reverse after alignment? So you installed UCA bushings to push control arm out and you are still negative. Then adjusted cams max and still negative. Nothing loose up front. If you added an offset Lower ball joint, would those dimensions work with tire clearances? Push lower outboard. Offset upper clearances? After those then its Adjustable control arms (upper). You really don't want front end moving around, ride height changes, alignment changes just because you changed direction of travel.
The UCA you bought were 2 degree? Check lower ball joints.

My camber in reverse issue is still there after the alignment.

I installed the moog problem solver control arms. As they are “supposed” to give 2 degrees of positive camber. I was expecting my camber to be around 0 degrees maybe .5 degree.... here I am. Same ride height, offset control arms, problem got worse...

lower balljoints are brand new. Inner and outer tie rods are brand new, Pitman arm and Idler arm (brand new GM parts).

offset bushings didn’t fix the issue. So I believe I’m going to have to install a LONGER aftermarket control arm, maybe from Michigan metal works etc.

Belltech does sell a camber kit, which you have to REAM the holes out on the frame, however their kit only allows 1 degree additional positive camber to correct the negative camber. (Not enough)

 

[Colby_e32]

Re-read everything. More questions. did you compare UCA's, measure them? Verify part numbers?
Did you only change lower ball joint or control arm? Change LCA bushings? Bet bushings shot or you are sitting on something too.

i removed the lower arms, bushings are in near perfect condition.

i did compare both new control arms. They are identical to the originals in length, the offset bushings are installed with the offset closest to the engine which makes sense it would push the camber more positive. However it did not help me at all.

only part other than upper control arms was the torsion keys. Ride height is exactly as it was before.

I can post my previous alignment sheet from 2 weeks ago, caster was in spec, camber was LESS. The parts I replaced were NOT worn out. Just did it to “solve” the camber issue.

Now I’m in a pickle for sure. Back to square 1

 

[exp500]

Look at offset ball joints. Superior Parts. Change Upper BJ. The Still changing Ride Height and Camber in reverse REALLY bothers me.... Look again....Might need a helper so you can watch it.In my mind That is the real problem.

 

[Colby_e32]

Look at offset ball joints. Superior Parts. Change Upper BJ. The Still changing Ride Height and Camber in reverse REALLY bothers me.... Look again....Might need a helper so you can watch it.In my mind That is the real problem.

One problem this truck has had for many years is it tends to "hop" or skip while turning full lock. It will always squeal when on smooth pavement doing a sharp turn, especially on fresh parking lots. I spent weeks researching it, most people on this forum found their fix was the center link was "flipped" or oriented wrong. However, mine is correct. Never found a solution to that problem either. I always assumed it was a combination of the negative camber/caster issues when turning the wheels are at a weird angle.

I will re-evaluate this problem this weekend. I found the belltech cam kit to be considered an option, but dont really feel as if it will solve these problems

https://www.belltech.com/extras/docs/BBGC/4951.pdf

 

[exp500]

Have you tried putting bar against LCA to check bushings? Or as I suggested earlier- inspect when you back up a foot and it's cambered. Something is moving around.
Cams are 1.5- 2.5 degrees depending which ones you have, seems like you have 2. They are only for alignment but are a give and take with caster. You want to be +- 1or less of where you want to be everywhere before using cams.
You could try calling superior tech line. Maybe they have heard of this.

 

[Colby_e32]

Have you tried putting bar against LCA to check bushings? Or as I suggested earlier- inspect when you back up a foot and it's cambered. Something is moving around.
Cams are 1.5- 2.5 degrees depending which ones you have, seems like you have 2. They are only for alignment but are a give and take with caster. You want to be +- 1or less of where you want to be everywhere before using cams.
You could try calling superior tech line. Maybe they have heard of this.

I’ve had the whole lower control arm off, inspected the bushings. No cracking, looseness or wear.

I’m going to try and make a video in the morning of the suspension as I roll backwards. Hoping to find the answer to my problems soon enough.

I think to get the alignment back into spec I will need the belltech alignment cams, and will have to enlarge the factory slots as their instructions say to do.

 

[exp500]

Use the cams you have. Cut out in the direction you need only. them holes are big already.

 

[Colby_e32]

Use the cams you have. Cut out in the direction you need only. them holes are big already.

The cams are literally maxed out against the little "tab" it will require cams with more travel. I plan to order the belltech cam kit and see how it goes from there.

 

[Loyuko]

The cams are literally maxed out against the little "tab" it will require cams with more travel. I plan to order the belltech cam kit and see how it goes from there.

I know this is an old thread but i'm hoping someone will respond! New to the forum. Just put a 3/5 drop on my 03 Yukon Xl. Having the exact same issue as this. Can you tell me if you ever found what was causing this or how you fixed this? 2"spindles and 1" keys in the front, the issue was so bad with the after market keys I couldn't drive it. The front would lower in reverse to where my tire made contact with the inner fender wall. I had to put the stock keys back in turned down and its atleast driveable. Once in reverse it lowers and cambers like crazy! I have not had the alignment yet as its set for next week. Once you drive forward it straightens back out and the ride height is exactly where I would like. Has a set of 24s with 305/35 tires which measures exactly to how the set of 20s that are currently installed. Thanks for any feed back.

 

[nonickatall]

There can only two reasons for that. Play somewhere in the axle components, like upper control arm, or loose connections.

I can tell you, with my experience at my first alignments of the trucks. I tighten the screws of the upper control where you set caster and camber real tight, but when I go into a full curve, it changed the settings.

I would put a bar in front of and behind the front tires so that they can't move back and forth and then someone should sit in the car and alternately put the forward gear in, then put the reverse in gear, so that you can see where there is movement in the axle . Ideally over a pit. Of course, you should be careful not to get run over.

 

[losloho02]

Going through same problems to the letter wtf is going on and how do I fix it