Is Oil Analysis Helpful In Providing Indication of Impending AFM Lifter Failure?

[Scrappycrow]

Y'all,

First off, I know I'm going to come across as a bit ornery by saying this, but please answer the question I'm asking, not anything else. Specifically, I do not want or need answers in the vein of:

* That disabling AFM by whatever means (dongle, tuning) will extend the life of the AFM components. I disabled mine via HPTuners soon after I got the truck.

* That ultimately the only way to "fix" the AFM system is to replace the AFM components with non-AFM components. That is fully understood by most folks here already and this question is not about that.

* That you don't believe oil analysis is a good value relative to the expense of an oil change. Replies in the vein of "Oil and filters are cheap and it's good policy to change frequently" don't answer what I'm asking.

So, as per the title: Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis? Such as "'X' levels have been constant for 'Y' miles, but jumped to '3X' in 'Y' miles, which indicates accelerated wear in the AFM lifters" or "'X' increasing could mean either AFM lifters or the timing chain, but you can't tell from analysis."

Thanks,
Scrappy

 

[Joseph Garcia]

OK........

Too many 'not anything elses' for me.

 

[Charlie207]

Maybe cam bearing wear, from a stuck/dead lifter pressing down on the lobe.

Or, plastic bits in the oil from chain-slap against the tensioner? I don't think timing chain wear exists in the same commonality or timeframe universe as AFM issues.

 

[j91z28d1]

I understand your frustration.
this is a question best asked to the oil analysis place.

I'll guess not really, unless you have a history of the truck say every 20-50k oil sample done and you can see a trend upward of something. gotta remember these tests are parts per million. failed afm leaves metal the size you'll see in your oil filter. so you hear a ticking and send off the first ever oil sample for the truck isn't going to tell you much.


you're probably better off opening the oil filter every time. get a good oil fitter cutter, so it's a clean cut. take the media out use one of the extendable utility knifes to cut around the top and bottom metal disk. then lay the oily media clean side down on some pig mat but don't pull it tight yet, just lay it there. it will pull the oil out of the media leaving it perfectly clean so you can see any speck of metal.

as the lifter eats the cam, you should see more specks. but as I understand it. the mode of the most common afm lifter failure is the plunger sticks inside the lifter. either from varnash build up, or galling from lack of lubrication. once stuck it starts tapping and slowly eats away the cam lobe and or breaks the lifter holder allowing it to turn.

in that type type of failure mode, I don't there'd be any sign till it sticks and starts producing metal but you'd hear it too.


but again. I'd shoot an email off and ask them.

 

[Scrappycrow]

Maybe cam bearing wear, from a stuck/dead lifter pressing down on the lobe.

Or, plastic bits in the oil from chain-slap against the tensioner? I don't think timing chain wear exists in the same commonality or timeframe universe as AFM issues.

My mention of the chain was just an example, in terms of "if you see this stuff in the oil, you can't tell because this other thing will result in the same stuff." I don't have concerns about the chain wearing.

I understand your frustration.
this is a question best asked to the oil analysis place.

I'll guess not really, unless you have a history of the truck say every 20-50k oil sample done and you can see a trend upward of something. gotta remember these tests are parts per million. failed afm leaves metal the size you'll see in your oil filter. so you hear a ticking and send off the first ever oil sample for the truck isn't going to tell you much.


you're probably better off opening the oil filter every time. get a good oil fitter cutter, so it's a clean cut. take the media out use one of the extendable utility knifes to cut around the top and bottom metal disk. then lay the oily media clean side down on some pig mat but don't pull it tight yet, just lay it there. it will pull the oil out of the media leaving it perfectly clean so you can see any speck of metal.

as the lifter eats the cam, you should see more specks. but as I understand it. the mode of the most common afm lifter failure is the plunger sticks inside the lifter. either from varnash build up, or galling from lack of lubrication. once stuck it starts tapping and slowly eats away the cam lobe and or breaks the lifter holder allowing it to turn.

in that type type of failure mode, I don't there'd be any sign till it sticks and starts producing metal but you'd hear it too.


but again. I'd shoot an email off and ask them.

Agreed, I'm not talking about a single analysis, I'm referring to trends. You've answered the main premise of my query, which was what might show up in an analysis. A sticking lifter, bits in the oil, and/or new noises are definite indicators. Thanks!

 

[wjburken]

At the end of the day, good oil helps prevent AFM failure and an oil analysis will let you know the condition of your oil and if you have any other issues causing your oil to get fouled and contribute to an AFM failure. As far as signs of impending failure? I don't believe so as from my experience your AFM lifters are fine until they suddenly are not. However, others may have different opinions and experiences.

 

[bill1013]

Y'all,

First off, I know I'm going to come across as a bit ornery by saying this, but please answer the question I'm asking, not anything else. Specifically, I do not want or need answers in the vein of:

* That disabling AFM by whatever means (dongle, tuning) will extend the life of the AFM components. I disabled mine via HPTuners soon after I got the truck.

* That ultimately the only way to "fix" the AFM system is to replace the AFM components with non-AFM components. That is fully understood by most folks here already and this question is not about that.

* That you don't believe oil analysis is a good value relative to the expense of an oil change. Replies in the vein of "Oil and filters are cheap and it's good policy to change frequently" don't answer what I'm asking.

So, as per the title: Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis? Such as "'X' levels have been constant for 'Y' miles, but jumped to '3X' in 'Y' miles, which indicates accelerated wear in the AFM lifters" or "'X' increasing could mean either AFM lifters or the timing chain, but you can't tell from analysis."

Thanks,
Scrappy

I’m with finding a reputable oil analysis lab that is knowledgeable in your situation. It’s a complicated process, but once it’s established it may save you some money. Good luck.

 

[donjetman]

So, as per the title: Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis?

Thanks,
Scrappy

NO

 

[donjetman]

@Scrappycrow
I'm a big fan of UOA. I've done over 100 on my vehices over the last 15+ yrs. I've done 8 on my 07 6.2 L92. IMO UOA is not able to see a DOD lifter failure coming or going.

 

[Scrappycrow]

@Scrappycrow
I'm a big fan of UOA. I've done over 100 on my vehices over the last 15+ yrs.

Same. I've only just started with my Tahoe.

I started doing them when I bought my Dad's former AMC Spirit track car from his estate. With an 8-quart pan, two filters, an oil cooler, and now a 3-quart Accusump, that's something that: 1) I don't want to change unnecessarily, and 2) I really don't want to have to redo any part of the built 409 (401 w/ 0.040" overbore), so I need to see what's trending.

 

[tom3]

I doubt an oil analysis would show anything until after the actual failure. Collapse of lifter and resulting carnage.

 

[Marky Dissod]

Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis?

Doubt it, because they don't wear out gradually, they give out rather suddenly. By the time you hear the lifter ticking, it's already failed.

Like the idea of cutting open the oil filter. Wish transparent valvecovers would be a thing,
so I could avoid 20min taking things apart to run the engine sans valvecovers and shpritz oil everywhere just to check for misbehaving lifters.

 

[RET423]

No, there are no oil analysis indicators that would predict an AFM lifter failure, any oil contamination from a lifter failure would occur because the AFM lifter didn't return to normal operation so that would show up after the fact

Low oil pressure or dirty oil increases the likelihood of AFM failure but if you're getting oil analysis done you likely aren't someone who delays maintenance & you can see the oil psi right on the dash

AFM lifters have 3 fingers that hold the bottom of the lifter plunger up during normal operation, oil pressure is how those fingers are controlled; when the ECM commands deactivation a solenoid sends pressurized oil to the lifter to force those fingers to retract; the plunger base then falls to the bottom of the lifter housing creating a valve lash too loose to open the valves

When AFM resumes normal operation that solenoid closes off the oil pressure so those fingers jump back into place the next time that cam lobe passes full lift & starts back down

When those fingers stick or don't fully get back into position under the lifter plunger that lifter retains too much lash & starts clicking, which is the sound of your valve train beating itself like a hammer while that cylinder misfires do to insufficient valve function

That ticking will eventually result in metal contamination in the engine oil but prior to a lifter failure there won't be any contamination

 

[Scrappycrow]

Thanks for explaining the operation of the AFM lifters in detail, @RET423!

 

[bazec]

Y'all,

First off, I know I'm going to come across as a bit ornery by saying this, but please answer the question I'm asking, not anything else. Specifically, I do not want or need answers in the vein of:

* That disabling AFM by whatever means (dongle, tuning) will extend the life of the AFM components. I disabled mine via HPTuners soon after I got the truck.

* That ultimately the only way to "fix" the AFM system is to replace the AFM components with non-AFM components. That is fully understood by most folks here already and this question is not about that.

* That you don't believe oil analysis is a good value relative to the expense of an oil change. Replies in the vein of "Oil and filters are cheap and it's good policy to change frequently" don't answer what I'm asking.

So, as per the title: Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis? Such as "'X' levels have been constant for 'Y' miles, but jumped to '3X' in 'Y' miles, which indicates accelerated wear in the AFM lifters" or "'X' increasing could mean either AFM lifters or the timing chain, but you can't tell from analysis."

Thanks,
Scrappy

Just listen for the chirp in engine stop driving as soon as possible

 

[ratman90]

Y'all,

First off, I know I'm going to come across as a bit ornery by saying this, but please answer the question I'm asking, not anything else. Specifically, I do not want or need answers in the vein of:

* That disabling AFM by whatever means (dongle, tuning) will extend the life of the AFM components. I disabled mine via HPTuners soon after I got the truck.

* That ultimately the only way to "fix" the AFM system is to replace the AFM components with non-AFM components. That is fully understood by most folks here already and this question is not about that.

* That you don't believe oil analysis is a good value relative to the expense of an oil change. Replies in the vein of "Oil and filters are cheap and it's good policy to change frequently" don't answer what I'm asking.

So, as per the title: Are there any particular indicators relative to AFM component wear that will show up in an oil analysis? Such as "'X' levels have been constant for 'Y' miles, but jumped to '3X' in 'Y' miles, which indicates accelerated wear in the AFM lifters" or "'X' increasing could mean either AFM lifters or the timing chain, but you can't tell from analysis."

Thanks,
Scrappy

I bet so I'm going to guess whatever the lifters are made of more that's going to show up in the oil analysis so that would have to be known.

I just had to put a remanufactured engine in a 2002 without all the AFM stuff and was looking at oil analysis since it's a " " new engine. And it does not look like it will benefit me in any way but reading up on it researching it it talked about all the different kind of metals that would show up and there was a lot of complaints about Blackstone not getting you the results back in time to do anything about anything just a heads up on that.


And by the way I love your question.

I am the exact same way I just want an answer to the question so I can move past it and continue to analyze or over analyze things that are in my head right now.

 

[donjetman]

My experience (over 100 uoa reports)
from the time the sample is sent
Blackstone = 3+ weeks
Oil Analyzers Inc = 1 week