Ideas? Help with a DOD/ AFM Deleted 2011 Escalade 6.2

[rdezs]

How true. And there's a lot of the 6.2's at or above 200k that are running between 15 and say 23 at a hot idle in gear with bearings in good condition. I'm inclined to think it's more related to the lifter bores, and it being an aluminum block with more expansion. I think it would be accurate to say that any 6.2 over 200k should benefit from a higher pressure/volume oil pump.

And what's the official GM spec on it? Something crazy, like 6 PSI per thousand RPM? I guess I'm biased by old school thinking, I remember seeing the incredibly low spec and I personally just can't accept that.

 

[j91z28d1]

How true. And there's a lot of the 6.2's at or above 200k that are running between 15 and say 23 at a hot idle in gear with bearings in good condition. I'm inclined to think it's more related to the lifter bores, and it being an aluminum block with more expansion. I think it would be accurate to say that any 6.2 over 200k should benefit from a higher pressure/volume oil pump.

And what's the official GM spec on it? Something crazy, like 6 PSI per thousand RPM? I guess I'm biased by old school thinking, I remember seeing the incredibly low spec and I personally just can't accept that.

there's an inspecter at my work that has a older chevy truck with the 4.8. I heard it across the parking lot tapping away, I walked over thinking afm, but I didn't know it was a 4.8 at the time, they never got afm, I say man those lifters aren't going to make it home. he's like nah, it's been like this for years. he got the truck for free from someone, decided to drive it till it stopped but never has. he reved it up, the oil pressure came up and it stopped tapping. idled for a while, and started tapping again.

kinda amazing he's driven it on that forever and it doesn't seem to care. sounds like there's not enough pressure to pump up the lifter at idle.

if you're just daily driving these things around town and you don't have a hard tapping noise. I wouldn't worry about it. that low spec is probably actually fine.. it's something like 6psi at 1000rpm hot. not even a min as the 600 or less rpm these things idle at.



funny thou, my hybrid 6.0 is exactly the same inside as any other ls engine, but they put a different pump on it and min spec is like 30 at 1000rpm and I've never seen it under 40 running even with 170k on it. I got no clue why thou. that's more than a gear style high volume pump would get you.

 

[Jeffdylanproctor]

So I went ahead and ordered the Melling 10296 oil pump and everything, mostly because I would like to open it up and see what it looks like, and I figure if I'm in there I might as well replace it.

It does have rattle than my 2004 with the 6.0, but it's not bad, in fact I have a friend with a 2009 Yukon that also has a little rattle going on and he's drove it like that for years.

I also am tempted to go ahead and put the new VVT solenoid in since I have it, along with all the AC Delco sensors

 

[rdezs]

There's nothing like giving yourself peace of mind in this situation. It would have been nice if the seller kept documentation on the parts he used for the AFM delete.

 

[rdezs]

Something LS engines are very picky about are OEM sensors. Especially the cam and crank position sensors. (Since you will have the starter off to lock the flex plate in position, you might as well get a crankshaft position sensor as well. It's directly above the starter, takes 15 seconds to change.)

Always try to stay with Genuine GM/AC Delco on anything that connects to the harness. If one's not available, go for the Delphi brand.... They're basically the OEM supplier on many parts.

Example: 2003 Hummer. No codes. Would fail on the first start. Always started on the second start. My buddy that works at the local GM service department took it in for diagnosis. Couldn't find anything wrong. I told him to drop in a new camshaft position sensor, if a relearn didn't fix it. He said the one that's in there is sending the proper signal. I told him to replace it anyway.... I read somewhere on the forum that solved a similar issue. He called me back, couldn't believe it. Wanted to keep it overnight just to check it in the morning after it sat. It's fired up every single time since then. He showed me the sensor he removed, from the previous owner. Walker brand. So I guess the moral of the story is you can get an aftermarket sensor that passes dealer level diagnostics... But simply won't work for your ECM. Not worth the headache of dealing with that.

 

[Jeffdylanproctor]

ok so I am back from our honeymoon and got back to working on the Escalade. I thought the DOD disabling dongle had fixed the problem, but I guess not, but I was going to put a new Cam Solenoid in it anyways to see if that was the problem.

First thing I noticed after popping off the water pump is that the AC Delco Cam Phaser Magnet I bought is different from the Cam Phaser Magnet that was in the truck.

Any thoughts on this? Did I buy the wrong one? Was the one in there wrong? How significant is this? The old one is thicker, and also the pin in the middle of it doesnt want to move freely.

 

[rdezs]

The one that's on there doesn't look like an oem one. The one you bought looks correct. And this was supposed to be recently deleted AFM? No, they lied.

I'm really curious with the part number on the camshaft is going to be. And if the timing marks are in alignment. On the edge of my seat waiting for photos, LOL.

 

[kbuskill]

I just wanted to clarify something that has been discussed in this thread.

If you unplug the VLOM from the engine harness without disabling the AFM in the tune, the truck will run and idle but will feel like it is running on 4 cylinders. Very pronounced/noticeable misfires. I have never driven one in this condition, only idled long enough to get into HP tuners and get the AFM disabled, so I can't say what would happen if you tried to drive it but I am 100% confident the OP would know if the AFM wasn't turned off in the tune.

I believe you plugging in the AFM disabler into the OBD2 port and noticing a difference was placebo.

I also think that a 2011, having a 6L80E transmission, with 100k+ miles on it you are probably feeling the torque converter starting to slip (surging) which is what causes those transmissions to grenade. I would turn off the PWM control for the torque converter with something like HP tuners or have someone do a proper tune and start saving money for a transmission rebuild or at very least a good converter to replace the original.

I'm not saying there aren't other issues with the VVT etc. I'm just saying I think the torque converter is part of your problem and thinking that the AFM hasn't been turned off in the tune is not really a possibility IMO.

Also, I'm not familiar with the Escalade cluster, but on my Burb there is a setting in the DIC that shows V4 and V8 mode depending on what mode the engine is in. I would certainly think the Esky would have the ability to show this as well.

 

[rdezs]

I just wanted to clarify something that has been discussed in this thread.

If you unplug the VLOM from the engine harness without disabling the AFM in the tune, the truck will run and idle but will feel like it is running on 4 cylinders. Very pronounced/noticeable misfires. I have never driven one in this condition, only idled long enough to get into HP tuners and get the AFM disabled, so I can't say what would happen if you tried to drive it but I am 100% confident the OP would know if the AFM wasn't turned off in the tune.

I believe you plugging in the AFM disabler into the OBD2 port and noticing a difference was placebo.

I also think that a 2011, having a 6L80E transmission, with 100k+ miles on it you are probably feeling the torque converter starting to slip (surging) which is what causes those transmissions to grenade. I would turn off the PWM control for the torque converter with something like HP tuners or have someone do a proper tune and start saving money for a transmission rebuild or at very least a good converter to replace the original.

I'm not saying there aren't other issues with the VVT etc. I'm just saying I think the torque converter is part of your problem and thinking that the AFM hasn't been turned off in the tune is not really a possibility IMO.

Also, I'm not familiar with the Escalade cluster, but on my Burb there is a setting in the DIC that shows V4 and V8 mode depending on what mode the engine is in. I would certainly think the Esky would have the ability to show this as well.

Yes, the 2010 to 2014 escalades do show if you're in V4 mode. If I remember correctly, and it should be the same on the suburbans..... I think it was when you are looking at the fuel mileage in real time.

At this point, I don't think you can do anything diagnostically accurate with the transmission until you get the engine running correctly. (Sort of like trying to address a stabilrack disabled issue without fixing the misfire first..... Everything's just too damn tied in with each other.)

And not knowing exactly what was done for the supposedly recent AFM delete really throws a wrench into things. His photo with the phaser magnet.... If AFM had been deleted recently and properly, that thing should be clean on both sides and OEM. I think the appearance of the camshaft position sensor will say a lot also. (Photos?)

 

[donjetman]

ok so I am back from our honeymoon and got back to working on the Escalade. I thought the DOD disabling dongle had fixed the problem, but I guess not, but I was going to put a new Cam Solenoid in it anyways to see if that was the problem.

First thing I noticed after popping off the water pump is that the AC Delco Cam Phaser Magnet I bought is different from the Cam Phaser Magnet that was in the truck.

Any thoughts on this? Did I buy the wrong one? Was the one in there wrong? How significant is this? The old one is thicker, and also the pin in the middle of it doesnt want to move freely.

Last summer when I pulled my timing cover and changed the camshaft phaser magnet (amazon AC Delco # 12653140), the old vs new looked different too but but both work great.

https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/valley-cover-crank-pulley-etc.149036/

 

[RST Dana]

Lifter tapping? I remember putting Rhoads lifters in my SBC in mid 80’s. People always thought they were bad until it launched.

 

[Charlie207]

Wow.... I didn't even consider that someone might have deleted the AFM but not turned it off in the ECM. (Or included a disabler plugged in for you)

I guess it goes to show that you can't make any assumptions when someone else has been in the engine.

One last thought, as they apparently had the heads off. Double check the ground bolt on the back of the driver side head, that it's tight. It should be a 15 mm if I recall correctly. Also check for a ring terminal going to a ground bolt at the front of the passenger side cylinder head. Clean and tight. You don't want a loose ground further complicating things. (Can cause all sorts of various codes)

There's also the loom ground down below/behind the power-steering pump. And while you're checking that out, make sure the cam sensor harness is tight.

Also, you can disable the AFM/DoD without the dongle by shifting into manual mode/gear 5 (on the 6L80), and cycling the dash computer screen to the MPG readout, where it'll tell you V4 or V8-mode. It's the factory diagnostic setting.

I'd also replace the torque converter ASAP. I mean, you'd have to do it if/when the AT fails, so why not do it now with a better part.

 

[Jeffdylanproctor]

What is the best /easiest way to get the PWM disabled so the trans and torque converter work a little better?

 

[Jeffdylanproctor]

also the truck has never had anything visual on the dash to indicate v4 mode, and I have been meticulously looking for somewhere that might show it

 

[kbuskill]

What is the best /easiest way to get the PWM disabled so the trans and torque converter work a little better?

The options are either...

Electronic, by turning it of in the tune.

Mechanical, by installing a kit in the transmission.

From the factory the ECU is setup with the PWM control so they can control the amount of slip in the converter. Another way to explain this is to say they can lock the converter at 50% or whatever, which means it isn't like the old school stuff that was either locked or unlocked. This creates more heat and wears out the torque converter.

 

[kbuskill]

also the truck has never had anything visual on the dash to indicate v4 mode, and I have been meticulously looking for somewhere that might show it

As mentioned, it should be on the digital portion of the dash where it shows instant MPG.

 

[rdezs]

I wonder .... If the previous owner turned off AFM, got rid of the VLOM.... And left everything else intact, would it even run? And if it did, what would the symptoms be? Random misfiring? Never ran into that scenario....

Just thinking out loud, pondering the possibilities of what the previous owner did or didn't do. I guess the only way to find out is a complete do-over of the AFM delete.

 

[Jeffdylanproctor]

Gentlemen: I believe the problem has been found and solved, and the Good Lord has had great mercy on me that the truck didn't detonate before I fixed it.

The timing chain tensioner was completely obliterated, and the cam was able to flop all over the place. It is amazing how easy these LS family engines are to work on, it took no time at all to tear down and put a new timing chain on. Also, the buying the LS crank pully removal tool was well worth the money, as was the tool that locks the crank at the starter.

As per the generous information of Rdezs, I put in these new parts:

>Melling 10296 Oil Pump
>Cloyes 9-4205 Timing Chain
>Cloyes 9-5490 Timing Chain Tensioner
>AC Delco 12682000 Camshaft Solenoid
>AC Delco Camshaft Position Sensor 213-2836
>Ac Delco 12653140 Camshaft Phaser Magnet

The truck runs extremely smooth now, none of the surging at all or powerloss. It goes through all rpm ragnes smoothly and finally feels like it has more power than my 2004, so it looks like the problem had everything to do with the timing chain and nothing really to do with the DOD/AFM system after all.

Thanks much for the help everyone, I am absolutely thrilled to have this back together and so is my wife.

 

[rdezs]

Congratulations! That's fantastic news to read. Now you most definitely have that peace of mind you were seeking

 

[kbuskill]

I wonder .... If the previous owner turned off AFM, got rid of the VLOM.... And left everything else intact, would it even run? And if it did, what would the symptoms be? Random misfiring? Never ran into that scenario....

Just thinking out loud, pondering the possibilities of what the previous owner did or didn't do. I guess the only way to find out is a complete do-over of the AFM delete.

To answer the question at hand, turning it off in the tune and then unplugging the VLOM is not an issue, it will run perfectly fine. It only causes a problem when unplugged and still active in the tune. With it turned off it just stays in V8 mode all the time so the lifters aren't constantly locking and unlocking.

Mine is turned off in the tune and I unplugged the VLOM harness and repurposed some of those wires when I changed from a virtual ethanol sensor to a physical sensor.