Feds to roll back Start/Stop Technology

[DuraYuk]

What did they call the last gimmick science that was supposed to be uber-cool gas save tech? Active fuel management...that went well! Right guys?

Does anyone driving a truck actually care if their mileage goes up by 0.37561 miles per gallon?
No, because if they did, they would drive like it. Maybe the five-under guy in the 98 Camry cares?

You can't force-engineer GREEN into products that inherently aren't. Just like you can't make low fat "Ice Cream" that actually tastes like ice cream does.

All you can do is optimize, and we have essentially optimized the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine, not ice cream). When that's not good enough, come up with a scheme to appease the green cult and get the Science People™ all revved up (pun intended). But all you're doing is putting off the inevitable.

Which is electrification.

P.S. You can trust me, because I actually do have an Environmental Science Bachelor's from a real university On second thought, that's not a reason to trust me at all...

The green cult? Holy smokes.

He said trust me bro. Hahaha love it.

Now saving gas is a scheme? Man oh man. Bring the facts back! Wow.

 

[BacDoc]

Blue hair huh ? There it is folks.

I love how all this is based on what you feel and not what you know.

Here in Florida we have a lot of “blue hairs” a term used to describe elderly grandma types. The grandma on fixed income driving a Prius is usually slower than speed limit and does not stomp on the pedal - my analogy for a very slow cautious driver concerned more about mpg than anything else!

 

[DuraYuk]

Here in Florida we have a lot of “blue hairs” a term used to describe elderly grandma types. The grandma on fixed income driving a Prius is usually slower than speed limit and does not stomp on the pedal - my analogy for a very slow cautious driver concerned more about mpg than anything else!

I'll be honest Im here to be objective but I can see this thread is getting derailed with name calling etc so I'm gonna go ahead and disengage before you guys show us who you really are.

I said what I needed to on the subject.

Good luck.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

Blue hair huh ? There it is folks.

I love how all this is based on what you feel and not what you know.

Yeah blue hair was a good one

Love your post from earlier.
Follows the same old cookie cutter pattern...
1. Accuse opponent of denying/fighting Ze Science®
2. Suggest normal people with functioning brains can't think for themselves on issue that affects them.
3. Supply "facts" from "authority"
4. Lob insults directly at opponent when they disagree.

Think we are at about 3.5...

Oh shoot I forgot,
Step 0. Misunderstand opponent's argument

No one is contending that Start/stop and AFM do not save gas. It does. A little.

We ARE saying that the cost-benefit just isn't there for use on large SUVs.

IMO just electrify or deal with 20 mpg max in practice.

I know I'd look good in a Cyber truck. You would too I'm sure.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

The green cult? Holy smokes.

He said trust me bro. Hahaha love it.

Now saving gas is a scheme? Man oh man. Bring the facts back! Wow.

Trust me was a joke. Read the next sentence...wish I could trade the degree for a mechanic school diploma and be useful to the world.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

Best part of AFM is that is shares something critical with Auto stop/start :: it can be disabled and/or deleted

Good thing PPV’s have it deleted from factory

Wonder why

What other proof do you need?

Rules for the serfs but not for the lords...

 

[BacDoc]

I see. This isn't about how things work. But 'oversight'. Nice word choice guys. Let's keep fighting science.

The systems are designed for it. Its not grandpas car with no other improvements running it. Oil pressure ? Doesn't drop to zero when it was just on then off. It has to bleed off. It doesnt. The electrical system is designed to sustain it and maintain charge. There's algorithms it doesn't always auto stop unless all parameters are met.

I get that you dont like it. Thats all you gotta say but dont make up bullet points that are easily disproven.


Thankfully we all have a choice.

Does the Start/Stop Function Really Improve Your Car’s Fuel Economy? - Consumer Reports

The automatic start/stop function shuts off the engine when your car is idling. But just how much does this technology really save you on gas?

www.consumerreports.org

Do Stop-Start Systems Really Save Fuel? | Edmunds

An increasing number of new cars are being equipped with stop-start systems that are designed to save fuel by shutting off the engine at stoplights. But do they work?

www.edmunds.com

From the first link - the fuel savings is going to be much lower? Think about that statement! If the engine is running at highway speed there’s absolutely zero fuel savings!

Also in the second link the conclusion for city driving is a savings of 10% - with air conditioning off. A 6.2l with ac off in city driving probably gets around 14/15mpg, so with auto stop and ac off we get improved 1.5 mpg ? Does anyone on this forum think that this is any advantage? Drivers who are concerned about fuel economy go for the Diesel!

 

[DuraYuk]

From the first link - the fuel savings is going to be much lower? Think about that statement! If the engine is running at highway speed there’s absolutely zero fuel savings!

Also in the second link the conclusion for city driving is a savings of 10% - with air conditioning off. A 6.2l with ac off in city driving probably gets around 14/15mpg, so with auto stop and ac off we get improved 1.5 mpg ? Does anyone on this forum think that this is any advantage? Drivers who are concerned about fuel economy go for the Diesel!
View attachment 457446

On the hwy a car isn't auto stopping.

Cars literally have tons of little things incorporated to increase efficiency. Every little bit counts. Tires, grill shutters, temp control, goes on and on. The diesel has auto start stop and the engines are just fine.

 

[DuraYuk]

Yeah blue hair was a good one

Love your post from earlier.
Follows the same old cookie cutter pattern...
1. Accuse opponent of denying/fighting Ze Science®
2. Suggest normal people with functioning brains can't think for themselves on issue that affects them.
3. Supply "facts" from "authority"
4. Lob insults directly at opponent when they disagree.

Think we are at about 3.5...

Oh shoot I forgot,
Step 0. Misunderstand opponent's argument

No one is contending that Start/stop and AFM do not save gas. It does. A little.

We ARE saying that the cost-benefit just isn't there for use on large SUVs.

IMO just electrify or deal with 20 mpg max in practice.

I know I'd look good in a Cyber truck. You would too I'm sure.

Your not making good faith arguments when people start name calling.

I get it tho. I really do. I can read between the lines lol believe me.

I showed you how it is beneficial and now we are throwing stones. So I'm
gonna refrain. I wont change your mind. And I dont intend on doing it. I thought the post was for discussion not to hold our belts and say whatever.

Just sucks that this divide is just everywhere these days cant escape it. Picked a terrible timeline to be objective/fact orientated.

Respectfully I hope everyone makes the choice that's right for them.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

Your not making good faith arguments when people start name calling.

I get it tho. I really do. I can read between the lines lol believe me.

I showed you how it is beneficial and now we are throwing stones. So I'm
gonna refrain. I wont change your mind. And I dont intend on doing it. I thought the post was for discussion not to hold our belts and say whatever.

Just sucks that this divide is just everywhere these days cant escape it. Picked a terrible timeline to be objective/fact orientated.

Respectfully I hope everyone makes the choice that's right for them.

I don't think you are understanding my argument. It's about cost-benefit to the consumer.

No one is calling you a name. At least I didn't think so.
Hard to have a discussion when you have the attitude of I'm right, you all are clearly wrong.

All most of us want is a durable product that will last a good long time. And AFM and ASS don't seem compatible with that. AFM, especially early AFM, has definitely proved that out.

If you can demonstrate, long term, that the cost-benefit ratio is there, I'm all ears. Don't forget R&D and engineering costs, usually passed onto consumer in initial cost. I think my OBS MSRP was like $28K. What's a Suburban cost today? Inflation alone can't explain it. No doubt it's a better vehicle overall, but is it the most durable it could be?

IMPORTANT PART:
Other efficiencies like reducing drag coefficient, EGR/Evap, etc, have a great ratio. So does fuel injection. You can only make an ICE so good without negative compromises. There IS a ceiling. If you are worried about efficiency, the solution isn't screwing with the engine to get small gains...it's switching to electric motors. (Long term cost-benefit still in question)