Feds to roll back Start/Stop Technology

[DuraYuk]

I don't think you are understanding my argument. It's about cost-benefit to the consumer.

No one is calling you a name. At least I didn't think so.
Hard to have a discussion when you have the attitude of I'm right, you all are clearly wrong.

All most of us want is a durable product that will last a good long time. And AFM and ASS don't seem compatible with that. AFM, especially early AFM, has definitely proved that out.

If you can demonstrate, long term, that the cost-benefit ratio is there, I'm all ears. Don't forget R&D and engineering costs, usually passed onto consumer in initial cost. I think my OBS MSRP was like $28K. What's a Suburban cost today? Inflation alone can't explain it. No doubt it's a better vehicle overall, but is it the most durable it could be?

IMPORTANT PART:
Other efficiencies like reducing drag coefficient, EGR/Evap, etc, have a great ratio. So does fuel injection. You can only make an ICE so good without negative compromises. There IS a ceiling. If you are worried about efficiency, the solution isn't screwing with the engine to get small gains...it's switching to electric motors. (Long term cost-benefit still in question)

Read the links I sent. Its 10% fuel saved on average up to 26%.

Do you need cost analysis on grill shutters? Low rolling resistance tires? Multiple speed transmissions? Gear ratios? Dynamic fuel management? Cam profiles? Stochionetric efficiencies? Air fuel ratio sensors ?

Or just this?

 

[BacDoc]

Read the links I sent. Its 10% fuel saved on average up to 26%.

Do you need cost analysis on grill shutters? Low rolling resistance tires? Multiple speed transmissions? Gear ratios? Dynamic fuel management? Cam profiles? Stochionetric efficiencies? Air fuel ratio sensors ?

Or just this?

The second link you posted came up with 10% between the 3 vehicles tested and none were as big or heavy as our trucks, with the air conditioning off. The Jaguar with V8 is not even close if you are talking apples to apples.

10% either way is not a deal breaker for the person who is buying a 6.2l. The way you drive these trucks can vary 30% between slow and spirited or in my case towing 7000lbs.

As I said before, those looking for fuel economy in these large SUV’s are looking at the diesel which will get way more than 25% even with air conditioning on!

PS calling older retired people in Florida “blue hairs” or “raisins” has been in the vernacular for decades and is more endearing/humerous than derogatory. Younger local people often complain about the seasonal traffic in Florida by saying the roads are packed with blue hairs and raisins.
Growing up in New Jersey I heard my dad say his dream was to retire and become an old raisin in Florida! LOL!

Chill out bro - nobody is calling you names.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

Read the links I sent. Its 10% fuel saved on average up to 26%.

Do you need cost analysis on grill shutters? Low rolling resistance tires? Multiple speed transmissions? Gear ratios? Dynamic fuel management? Cam profiles? Stochionetric efficiencies? Air fuel ratio sensors ?

Or just this?

I think this is the third time...yes it is a fuel savings. NOT arguing it isn't. Perhaps my posts were too long. I'll try to be brief.

ASS and even AFM save fuel. Fuel savings is good, but it*IS NOT* the whole picture.
You can only make an ICE so efficient before comprising something else, ie longevity.
Not all of us want to make that trade, but get stuck footing the engineering cost anyway if we buy a new vehicle. As well as unintended negative consequences of said engineering.

I think going all electric/hybrid OR keeping a solid V8 are both preferable to trying to eek every last mpg from a vehicle class not intended for efficiency, at the cost of something else.

Please tell me you understand the point I am making, even if you don't agree.

 

[DuraYuk]

I think this is the third time...yes it is a fuel savings. NOT arguing it isn't. Perhaps my posts were too long. I'll try to be brief.

ASS and even AFM save fuel. Fuel savings is good, but it*IS NOT* the whole picture.
You can only make an ICE so efficient before comprising something else, ie longevity.
Not all of us want to make that trade, but get stuck footing the engineering cost anyway if we buy a new vehicle. As well as unintended negative consequences of said engineering.

I think going all electric/hybrid OR keeping a solid V8 are both preferable to trying to eek every last mpg from a vehicle class not intended for efficiency, at the cost of something else.

Please tell me you understand the point I am making, even if you don't agree.

All vehicle classes need efficiency.

 

[DuraYuk]

The second link you posted came up with 10% between the 3 vehicles tested and none were as big or heavy as our trucks, with the air conditioning off. The Jaguar with V8 is not even close if you are talking apples to apples.

10% either way is not a deal breaker for the person who is buying a 6.2l. The way you drive these trucks can vary 30% between slow and spirited or in my case towing 7000lbs.

As I said before, those looking for fuel economy in these large SUV’s are looking at the diesel which will get way more than 25% even with air conditioning on!

PS calling older retired people in Florida “blue hairs” or “raisins” has been in the vernacular for decades and is more endearing/humerous than derogatory. Younger local people often complain about the seasonal traffic in Florida by saying the roads are packed with blue hairs and raisins.
Growing up in New Jersey I heard my dad say his dream was to retire and become an old raisin in Florida! LOL!

Chill out bro - nobody is calling you names.

10% is significant. Yeah idk. I dont call people things so I wouldn't know what's cute and what's not pardon me if I dont understand your terms of endearment.

Like I said the tech works. And if it doesnt there's a switch. Taking choice away isn't exactly a upgrade anyway you slice it. Right now you have choice.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

All vehicle classes need efficiency.

Yes...When you think about it, modern vehicles are historically efficient using the fuel source. Half my point is there is a physical maximum we have basically arrived there for ICE. If it's not good enough, the next logical step is electric.

I think we can crack fusion in the next 30 years. Until then, electric will have big hurdles.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

10% is significant. Yeah idk. I dont call people things so I wouldn't know what's cute and what's not pardon me if I dont understand your terms of endearment.

Like I said the tech works. And if it doesnt there's a switch. Taking choice away isn't exactly a upgrade anyway you slice it. Right now you have choice.

They actually don't give us a complete choice. If you can turn it off, like most, not all vehicles, can, that mitigates the unintended consequences.

But do they take out the engineering cost from the MSRP if you option out of ASS? Or is it still $80K or whatever?

I wonder how many people would option out if they let you to recoup the engineering cost.

 

[DuraYuk]

They actually don't give us a complete choice. If you can turn it off, like most, not all vehicles, can, that mitigates the unintended consequences.

But do they take out the engineering cost from the MSRP if you option out of ASS? Or is it still $80K or whatever?

I wonder how many people would option out if they let you to recoup the engineering cost.

Im not aware of any vehicle you cant turn it off on.

 

[OBSalsoNNBS]

Im not aware of any vehicle you cant turn it off on.

I do. 2019 Equinox. How does the owner I know deal with it in hot days? He lets his foot off the brake to restart the engine...GM fixed it in subsequent years.

Any thoughts the other points I mentioned?

See, this can be a reasonable discussion