Choosing pre-electronics year to buy

[KVacek]

We love our 2005 XL Denali, but salted roads have eaten too much of the body. I had scary health issues 2 years ago and decided I'd better make sure my wife would drive carefree for a few years, so (after far too little study) we bought a 2020 Yukon XL Denali that had never left the Napa valley. We'd driven one locally and thought we knew what we were getting.

When it arrived we began to realize what all they'd done in "updating" the old Yukon/Suburban. Long story, we just don't want what they've done to the formerly great Suurban/Yukon. Everything that was controlled conventionally is now run by an electric motor, and tied to a screen with nonsensical menus. 13-month old battery died last night (third time) and the dealer can't find any parasitic draw or etc. Why did I buy 4 years of useless GM fctory warranteefor that? Ride (electronc magnetic shocks) is no better than the 2005 with original plain shocks. Mileage is similar to our old 2005 that's had a set of plugs and regular oil changes. Yeah, I've done a few EVAP fixe on the 2005, new seat switch, 2 water pumps,new radiator, some brake jobs, and a rear AC evaporator replacement, but that's all nothing compared to losing an engine due to EPA-mandated stupidity on the newer ones.

We'll easily lose $10K or more, but a year and a half of this POS is enough. We need to buy an earlier model with as little electronic "improvement" as possible. I know they started AFM/DFM/Self destruct somewhere there too.

If I could find a rust free 2005 it'd be wonderful, but a little newer would likely give us more vehicles to choose from in a diminishing supply. What years should I look for to avoid most of the "updates"? I want a real truck with real mechanical controls, and a real engine with no self destruct features that'll cost me thousands in parts to remove. The 6.0 is still great. I don't need a 10-speed transmission - the 4L60 we have is fine.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Do you feel better now? Hopefully so.

2007-2009 Yukon XL Denali or Escalade ESV or Suburban with the 6.2L (No AFM on the Yukon and Suburban for sure) is probably what you are looking for, if you can't find another GMT800 truck is great condition.

 

[Tonyv__]

We love our 2005 XL Denali, but salted roads have eaten too much of the body. I had scary health issues 2 years ago and decided I'd better make sure my wife would drive carefree for a few years, so (after far too little study) we bought a 2020 Yukon XL Denali that had never left the Napa valley. We'd driven one locally and thought we knew what we were getting.

When it arrived we began to realize what all they'd done in "updating" the old Yukon/Suburban. Long story, we just don't want what they've done to the formerly great Suurban/Yukon. Everything that was controlled conventionally is now run by an electric motor, and tied to a screen with nonsensical menus. 13-month old battery died last night (third time) and the dealer can't find any parasitic draw or etc. Why did I buy 4 years of useless GM fctory warranteefor that? Ride (electronc magnetic shocks) is no better than the 2005 with original plain shocks. Mileage is similar to our old 2005 that's had a set of plugs and regular oil changes. Yeah, I've done a few EVAP fixe on the 2005, new seat switch, 2 water pumps,new radiator, some brake jobs, and a rear AC evaporator replacement, but that's all nothing compared to losing an engine due to EPA-mandated stupidity on the newer ones.

We'll easily lose $10K or more, but a year and a half of this POS is enough. We need to buy an earlier model with as little electronic "improvement" as possible. I know they started AFM/DFM/Self destruct somewhere there too.

If I could find a rust free 2005 it'd be wonderful, but a little newer would likely give us more vehicles to choose from in a diminishing supply. What years should I look for to avoid most of the "updates"? I want a real truck with real mechanical controls, and a real engine with no self destruct features that'll cost me thousands in parts to remove. The 6.0 is still great. I don't need a 10-speed transmission - the 4L60 we have is fine.

As far as technology, you should be good to shop for anything 2014 and older. They don’t start to go digital until 2015 and newer.

as far as AFM, it’s not a deal breaker to me. I’ve had a lifter shit the bed on a non AFM engine, so there’s no guarantee you’re safe with or without it. However, if non afm is what you’re searching for, you can always just budget that into your purchase price. Buy a clean suv and take it right to a trusted mechanic to have it looked over and rebuild the top end with non afm parts.

Also I believe there are some engine combinations that did not come with AFM, but I’ll leave that for someone else to elaborate on.

 

[GMCChevy]

Get another 02-06 if you can find one. 07-13 were prone to rust and the 90s ones are even simpler with the older 350 drivetrain but they're bad on gas and aren't as refined as the 2000s ones are. And pretty hard to find clean ones these days.
While we have a 2017 and happy with it I'm still watching for a nice older one.

 

[mountie]

The only “issue” I have with my 2005 Yukon XL is responding nicely to all the newer SUV drivers wanting to buy mine.
A welding company owner offered me $15,000. I kept his business card, but he’ll have to wait a long time.

 

[homesick]

I'll add a vote for the GMT800 family, but add another one for the '96-'00 family.

joe

 

[OR VietVet]

You will not get any arguments from me, with the GMT800 recommendations made here. Thru and thru the best series. IIRC, I am old and forgetful at times, the 2002 was the last year of the cable controlled throttle. I did have a 2002 Tahoe LS with the cable control and my 2005 Tahoe Z71 has proven to be a fantastic GMT800. You already have a GMT800 XL Denali and love it. I think you have answered your own questions.

 

[j91z28d1]

if you don't need 4wd, I would think that unicorn 6.2 rwd tahoe would be good? if you did want a gmt900, maybe look for the rare 2500, or was it's 3500? the one with the 4l80 and 6.0 with no afm. that would seem like a good one for you and would hold value for the right people.


I agree that the 2015 and up look nice but seem to be a bit of a headache reliable wise.

funny you say the mileage is the same.. it's basically always the same.. from a 1996 4.3 v6 blazer to a 2025 tahoe/suburban. they all basically get 15-16 mph around down driven by a normal person. I sware there's a Gentlemen's Agreement between all the manufacturers that trucks and suv's get around 15 city, and they all just keep adding hp and weight from the tech but never break the agreement. gm build. a full size truck, put a turbo 4cyl in it and the things got practically the same mileage lol.

 

[tom3]

In your position I'd downsize some and take a hard look at a Toyota SUV. Pretty much bulletproof and with their V6 engines they do the job. (never owned one - and probably never will - but have several friends that do)

 

[Doubeleive]

if your not worried about steering wheel controls fine yourself a 00/01, west coast vehicle
no nannies 02-03 is when they started adding electronics/nannies

 

[Bigburb3500]

if you don't need 4wd, I would think that unicorn 6.2 rwd tahoe would be good? if you did want a gmt900, maybe look for the rare 2500, or was it's 3500? the one with the 4l80 and 6.0 with no afm. that would seem like a good one for you and would hold value for the right people.


I agree that the 2015 and up look nice but seem to be a bit of a headache reliable wise.

funny you say the mileage is the same.. it's basically always the same.. from a 1996 4.3 v6 blazer to a 2025 tahoe/suburban. they all basically get 15-16 mph around down driven by a normal person. I sware there's a Gentlemen's Agreement between all the manufacturers that trucks and suv's get around 15 city, and they all just keep adding hp and weight from the tech but never break the agreement. gm build. a full size truck, put a turbo 4cyl in it and the things got practically the same mileage lol.

I agree with the 2013-2014 Chevy/GMC 2500 with the 6.0. Look for the later year model because it comes with the 6L90. Pretty steady vehicles.
If you like the newer model style, there are the unicorn K2 (2015-2020) 1-ton trucks. They have the “basic” tech (blind spot, lane detect, auto climate control) but no AFM or epa things. These trucks are far and few in between but are great. I think there are 4 of us on the the forum here with 2 of us that are highly active in here so hit us with any questions.

 

[KVacek]

Lots of helpful replies - thanks ever so much. We had a 93 for many years before the 05 - also great but the 05 is more plush. Doubt we'll downsize and definitely not Japanese. Maybe a Ford, but unlikely. I want old GM.

I want to avoid screens and redesigned things that worked great mechanically for decades till some goof turned them into electric motor driven things that don't work as well, don't travel as far, work strangely, and have an expensive motor or two that will fail some day.

GM made great steering columns, eminently repairable if needed. Now it's redesigned all electric, doesn't telescope as far back, and doesn't tilt but just goes from not really out of the way down to clamped down on my thighs.

And on and on.

 

[Bigburb3500]

Lots of helpful replies - thanks ever so much. We had a 93 for many years before the 05 - also great but the 05 is more plush. Doubt we'll downsize and definitely not Japanese. Maybe a Ford, but unlikely. I want old GM.

I want to avoid screens and redesigned things that worked great mechanically for decades till some goof turned them into electric motor driven things that don't work as well, don't travel as far, work strangely, and have an expensive motor or two that will fail some day.

GM made great steering columns, eminently repairable if needed. Now it's redesigned all electric, doesn't telescope as far back, and doesn't tilt but just goes from not really out of the way down to clamped down on my thighs.

And on and on.

Ya know… I know this is a GM forum but don’t discount all Japanese vehicles. Two that really come to mind are the previous generation Toyota Sequoia and Lexus GX460. Both V8. Mechanical everything and built like concrete poo houses underground.

The GX is super plush and it’s so mechanical that the last yr (2023 I think) still had a CD changer that wasn’t hidden away… the Sequoia can be had in all flavors from bare bones to a platinum model that was nice but still felt “robust.” Don’t count these two out unless you are just don’t like them. They do fit you bill pretty well (and are generally affordable).

 

[adventurenali92]

We love our 2005 XL Denali, but salted roads have eaten too much of the body. I had scary health issues 2 years ago and decided I'd better make sure my wife would drive carefree for a few years, so (after far too little study) we bought a 2020 Yukon XL Denali that had never left the Napa valley. We'd driven one locally and thought we knew what we were getting.

When it arrived we began to realize what all they'd done in "updating" the old Yukon/Suburban. Long story, we just don't want what they've done to the formerly great Suurban/Yukon. Everything that was controlled conventionally is now run by an electric motor, and tied to a screen with nonsensical menus. 13-month old battery died last night (third time) and the dealer can't find any parasitic draw or etc. Why did I buy 4 years of useless GM fctory warranteefor that? Ride (electronc magnetic shocks) is no better than the 2005 with original plain shocks. Mileage is similar to our old 2005 that's had a set of plugs and regular oil changes. Yeah, I've done a few EVAP fixe on the 2005, new seat switch, 2 water pumps,new radiator, some brake jobs, and a rear AC evaporator replacement, but that's all nothing compared to losing an engine due to EPA-mandated stupidity on the newer ones.

We'll easily lose $10K or more, but a year and a half of this POS is enough. We need to buy an earlier model with as little electronic "improvement" as possible. I know they started AFM/DFM/Self destruct somewhere there too.

If I could find a rust free 2005 it'd be wonderful, but a little newer would likely give us more vehicles to choose from in a diminishing supply. What years should I look for to avoid most of the "updates"? I want a real truck with real mechanical controls, and a real engine with no self destruct features that'll cost me thousands in parts to remove. The 6.0 is still great. I don't need a 10-speed transmission - the 4L60 we have is fine.

Funny that you say that your 2020 has the same “plain suspension” as your 2005. The GMT800 Z55 suspension option was actually a pretty cool system design wise. Individually dampened shocks via the trucks electric suspension controller, plus automatic leveling air assisted shocks in the rear. Makes for great performance when towing. I’ve driven tons of GMT800s over the years as a professional detailer. And while they all ride pretty nicely if properly maintained, I think the Z55 optioned rigs just ride so much more nicely than the others. My 2006 XL Denali is like rolling around on a big couch.

 

[B-train]

I agree with the 2013-2014 Chevy/GMC 2500 with the 6.0. Look for the later year model because it comes with the 6L90. Pretty steady vehicles.
If you like the newer model style, there are the unicorn K2 (2015-2020) 1-ton trucks. They have the “basic” tech (blind spot, lane detect, auto climate control) but no AFM or epa things. These trucks are far and few in between but are great. I think there are 4 of us on the the forum here with 2 of us that are highly active in here so hit us with any questions.

I will second any HD trucks with the 6.0L and 6 speed trans. The 2015-19 are my favorite, but 2007 and newer share most similarities in the drivetrain. Durable, dependable, easy to fix, etc......just buy one from a salt free area and rust proof the heck out of it before driving in salt. They love to rot out unfortunately

 

[mountie]

Funny that you say that your 2020 has the same “plain suspension” as your 2005. The GMT800 Z55 suspension option was actually a pretty cool system design wise. Individually dampened shocks via the trucks electric suspension controller, plus automatic leveling air assisted shocks in the rear. Makes for great performance when towing. I’ve driven tons of GMT800s over the years as a professional detailer. And while they all ride pretty nicely if properly maintained, I think the Z55 optioned rigs just ride so much more nicely than the others. My 2006 XL Denali is like rolling around on a big couch.

( ’05 rolling around like a big couch )……. Yup ( well, sort of )….. After replacing my OEM shocks & the WONDERFUL Hellwig sway bars front I rear, ..that was a game changer !! ( stock sway bars are stupid hollow pipes WTF )

 

[OR VietVet]

( ’05 rolling around like a big couch )……. Yup ( well, sort of )….. After replacing my OEM shocks & the WONDERFUL Hellwig sway bars front I rear, ..that was a game changer !! ( stock sway bars are stupid hollow pipes WTF )

Agreed. I did the KYB shocks and the 81069, IIRC, rear springs and Hellwig front and rear performance bars and NOW my 05 Tahoe Z71 handles like a dream and I love to drive it daily. I have had passengers give me the side eye as I go in to a cloverleaf at higher than posted speed and then they cringe a bit but get used to it.

 

[mountie]

Agreed. I did the KYB shocks and the 81069, IIRC, rear springs and Hellwig front and rear performance bars and NOW my 05 Tahoe Z71 handles like a dream and I love to drive it daily. I have had passengers give me the side eye as I go in to a cloverleaf at higher than posted speed and then they cringe a bit but get used to it.

( Entering to a curve )….. Apply brakes soft but firm, ENTERING into the first 1/4 of the curve. ( It settles all 4 corners of the truck onto the surface equally ). You want all 4 tires the same weight, against the road)…. Plus, the turning also, is scrubbing speed….
>>> This is described as “ Trail Braking “ <<<
Hold speed, evenly. ( A ‘screeching' tire means one tire has less grip than the other 3 tires )…..
SMOOTH STEERING…. entering the turn……. Begin steering SLOWLY AND EARLY….. Exiting the curve, STEER EARLY AND SLOWLY AND HOLD LONGER. ( You want all 4 ‘tire patches’ on the surface same )……. And you are not shifting the weight of the vehicle.

( Notice the NASCAR driver SVG is so fast on a road course )
>>>>. Slow maneuver is faster / smoother…...
Passengers won’t ‘feel nervous’ if your maneuver is SMOOTH.
( I spent 7 years at the Bondurant Driving School ).

 

[KVacek]

I'm not seeing some of this, and I'm the OP.

I didn't say anything about the suspension being the same 2005 vs 2020. The 2020 has the "miracle" $1200 apiece magnetic shocks and the ride is disappointing at best - nothing like the used 2020 I drove before buying this one. The 2005 has all original suspension and the leveling compressor still works. Ride is as good or better than the 2020.

 

[mountie]

I'm not seeing some of this, and I'm the OP.

I didn't say anything about the suspension being the same 2005 vs 2020. The 2020 has the "miracle" $1200 apiece magnetic shocks and the ride is disappointing at best - nothing like the used 2020 I drove before buying this one. The 2005 has all original suspension and the leveling compressor still works. Ride is as good or better than the 2020.

I recently had my Michelin tires “ Road Force” balanced…. Oh, My, Gosh……. Smooth as an S class Mercedes !!