Choosing pre-electronics year to buy

[j91z28d1]

I'm not seeing some of this, and I'm the OP.

I didn't say anything about the suspension being the same 2005 vs 2020. The 2020 has the "miracle" $1200 apiece magnetic shocks and the ride is disappointing at best - nothing like the used 2020 I drove before buying this one. The 2005 has all original suspension and the leveling compressor still works. Ride is as good or better than the 2020.

I'll just add ride better means something different to everyone. it's very personal.

some guys want their suv to be responsive and and flat in corners and don't mine firm over bumps. I am the opposite, I want to feel like I'm riding in a 70s caddy. but floaty cloud. I have the mag ride on my 2011 denali and it's to stiff for my taste around town too. I've seen it's benefit in a quick avoid an accident at 50 ish, and I've seen how it handles towing with a lot of tongue weight and it can get control of a big bump very quickly. but it's all in the tuning, and I'd love to soften the ride around town.

I leave all that hard spring rate and roll bar for car stuff.

to others it can mean you feel every peble or line in the road. a lot of that is tire type and lack of side wall in these 20in and bigger tires. mine happened to come with the smaller 18s instead of the standard 20s and whole I don't really like the base look. I do appreciate the lack of road noise and harshness over washboard surface.

so when you say rode better. that's a very loaded question. some guys want to sail their 6k lbs suv into that clover leaf at 80mph workout a thought. others want to ride on a cloud.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Agreed. I did the KYB shocks and the 81069, IIRC, rear springs and Hellwig front and rear performance bars and NOW my 05 Tahoe Z71 handles like a dream and I love to drive it daily. I have had passengers give me the side eye as I go in to a cloverleaf at higher than posted speed and then they cringe a bit but get used to it.

Hellwig sway bars ROCK!! I get the same reaction from my passengers when I run my favorite cloverleaf.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

( Entering to a curve )….. Apply brakes soft but firm, ENTERING into the first 1/4 of the curve. ( It settles all 4 corners of the truck onto the surface equally ). You want all 4 tires the same weight, against the road)…. Plus, the turning also, is scrubbing speed….
>>> This is described as “ Trail Braking “ <<<
Hold speed, evenly. ( A ‘screeching' tire means one tire has less grip than the other 3 tires )…..
SMOOTH STEERING…. entering the turn……. Begin steering SLOWLY AND EARLY….. Exiting the curve, STEER EARLY AND SLOWLY AND HOLD LONGER. ( You want all 4 ‘tire patches’ on the surface same )……. And you are not shifting the weight of the vehicle.

( Notice the NASCAR driver SVG is so fast on a road course )
>>>>. Slow maneuver is faster / smoother…...
Passengers won’t ‘feel nervous’ if your maneuver is SMOOTH.
( I spent 7 years at the Bondurant Driving School ).

What's the point, then? LOL

 

[Joseph Garcia]

I recently had my Michelin tires “ Road Force” balanced…. Oh, My, Gosh……. Smooth as an S class Mercedes !!

Yes, I've been doing the Road Force balance over the past 5 years, and I wouldn't get them balanced on any other machine. My favorite shop does not balance my tires, as it does not have a Road Force balancing machine.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

I'll just add ride better means something different to everyone. it's very personal.

some guys want their suv to be responsive and and flat in corners and don't mine firm over bumps. I am the opposite, I want to feel like I'm riding in a 70s caddy. but floaty cloud. I have the mag ride on my 2011 denali and it's to stiff for my taste around town too. I've seen it's benefit in a quick avoid an accident at 50 ish, and I've seen how it handles towing with a lot of tongue weight and it can get control of a big bump very quickly. but it's all in the tuning, and I'd love to soften the ride around town.

I leave all that hard spring rate and roll bar for car stuff.

to others it can mean you feel every peble or line in the road. a lot of that is tire type and lack of side wall in these 20in and bigger tires. mine happened to come with the smaller 18s instead of the standard 20s and whole I don't really like the base look. I do appreciate the lack of road noise and harshness over washboard surface.

so when you say rode better. that's a very loaded question. some guys want to sail their 6k lbs suv into that clover leaf at 80mph workout a thought. others want to ride on a cloud.

Isn't it NICE to have 'choices'? To each, their own, and everyone can be made happy, if they want to be.

 

[j91z28d1]

Isn't it NICE to have 'choices'? To each, their own, and everyone can be made happy, if they want to be.

that's the thing thou, you don't actually have a choice with the mag ride tuning. and we aren't buying these trucks new so you just get what it happen to have when you find one to buy. they make performance upgrades, I've yet to find anyone making ride like a cloud suspension for us old guys that are sick of race cars haha.

it's to hard daily and to soft for performance. gm went full General mistake with the programing.


one of the retired gm suspension engineers offers aftermarket tuning for mag ride, as even he admits it's all pretty bad stock. but only for the corvettes and z28s. I've asked him to do trucks and suv's and he says it would be to much work and most people don't even know if they have it or not. and if they do, sure has hell aren't going to pay 500$ for flashing tunes to it.

so blah. I do feel op's frustration with all new cars and trucks gets worse and worse over all.

but they are fancy looking

 

[Joseph Garcia]

that's the thing thou, you don't actually have a choice with the mag ride tuning. and we aren't buying these trucks new so you just get what it happen to have when you find one to buy. they make performance upgrades, I've yet to find anyone making ride like a cloud suspension for us old guys that are sick of race cars haha.

it's to hard daily and to soft for performance. gm went full General mistake with the programing.


one of the retired gm suspension engineers offers aftermarket tuning for mag ride, as even he admits it's all pretty bad stock. but only for the corvettes and z28s. I've asked him to do trucks and suv's and he says it would be to much work and most people don't even know if they have it or not. and if they do, sure has hell aren't going to pay 500$ for flashing tunes to it.

so blah. I do feel op's frustration with all new cars and trucks gets worse and worse over all.

but they are fancy looking

Then, replace the active suspension with a passive system, if you don't like it. A number of folks on this Forum have done so, probably for similar reasons to yours (except for those who simply wanted to reduce replacement costs), and they are happy.

 

[mountie]

GM sets up suspensions for the average ‘un-trained’ driver.
For years, a Corvette was made to feel a 30 mph off-ramp to be comfortable.
A friend ‘tuned’ ‘Vettes to feel just a comfortable on an off-ramp at 55 mph.
He was very busy !!

( As for everyone likes a different suspension for their own reasons….. Great !
I’m not trying to say there is just one style of driving.

 

[j91z28d1]

Then, replace the active suspension with a passive system, if you don't like it. A number of folks on this Forum have done so, probably for similar reasons to yours (except for those who simply wanted to reduce replacement costs), and they are happy.

if I could find a cloud ride kit I would haha.

but again, that literally the point of the mag ride extra cost and hassle. to not be a trade off. it should ride nicer than the softest conventional setup and then stiffen up when needed. it can adjust damping to handle every situation. but it can't because gm added all the complexity with non of the rewards. Just like the OP is talking about with all the on screen controls, low reliability and costly repairs of the newer gens. without any real world benefits besides looking fancy to the person riding in the passenger seat.

that's all I'm saying, there shouldn't have to be a trade off.

 

[homesick]

... that's all I'm saying, there shouldn't have to be a trade off.

Why would it be any different from any/every other aspect of life? The 'balance' line can maybe be shifted, but never eliminated.

joe

 

[adventurenali92]

Agreed. I did the KYB shocks and the 81069, IIRC, rear springs and Hellwig front and rear performance bars and NOW my 05 Tahoe Z71 handles like a dream and I love to drive it daily. I have had passengers give me the side eye as I go in to a cloverleaf at higher than posted speed and then they cringe a bit but get used to it.

I first saw the Helleig sway bars because you mentioned them. I’m saving up cuz I wanna grab those for sure! The mountains I live in have 3 main roads leading into and out of the Big Bear Valley that are standard twisty mountain highways. The main road I use, highway 38, that we sorta call the back side, is pretty nice. Long properly banked corners that aren’t super tight, the pavement is good for the most part and I can cruise about 55-60 averag going up and down, except for one short area where the highway crosses the Santa Ana river bed and then past a few campground areas and a small lake, where it’s tight, twisty, and some decent steep grades that ya gotta take a bit slower in these big land yachts lol. My truck handles pretty good going up and down 38, especially with all wheel drive. But I know that hellwig sway bar will give it that extra edge to keep it a little tighter in the twisties.

 

[mountie]

I first saw the Helleig sway bars because you mentioned them. I’m saving up cuz I wanna grab those for sure! The mountains I live in have 3 main roads leading into and out of the Big Bear Valley that are standard twisty mountain highways. The main road I use, highway 38, that we sorta call the back side, is pretty nice. Long properly banked corners that aren’t super tight, the pavement is good for the most part and I can cruise about 55-60 averag going up and down, except for one short area where the highway crosses the Santa Ana river bed and then past a few campground areas and a small lake, where it’s tight, twisty, and some decent steep grades that ya gotta take a bit slower in these big land yachts lol. My truck handles pretty good going up and down 38, especially with all wheel drive. But I know that hellwig sway bar will give it that extra edge to keep it a little tighter in the twisties.

I drove those a few times…….. And….. I would have not sold my motorcycles if there were roads like them in flat S Florida.

 

[j91z28d1]

Why would it be any different from any/every other aspect of life? The 'balance' line can maybe be shifted, but never eliminated.

joe

being infinitely adjustable on the fly in millisec. the balance is you pay more for the option, more for the repairs and more in fuel to make the electricity to run the whole thing.

there shouldn't be a traditional trade off in ride as that's the whole point of infinitely variable dampening.

 

[j91z28d1]

I drove those a few times…….. And….. I would have not sold my motorcycles if there were roads like them in flat S Florida.

what's the t shirt says, Florida 12 turns in 318 miles?

or something like that.

 

[GMCChevy]

I'm not seeing some of this, and I'm the OP.

I didn't say anything about the suspension being the same 2005 vs 2020. The 2020 has the "miracle" $1200 apiece magnetic shocks and the ride is disappointing at best - nothing like the used 2020 I drove before buying this one. The 2005 has all original suspension and the leveling compressor still works. Ride is as good or better than the 2020.

Original suspension also means its more worn and floaty then then the 15 year newer one. However I like a more floaty ride as long as it's not so floaty it's not swaying all over the place.
I'd kinda say I liked the ride of my 2004 better but it was just different. Rims and tires also make a difference. When we first got our 2017 it was firmer then I liked but when I switched out the 22" rims with 20s for winter it made it almost perfect. It doesn't have the floaty feeling but especially with the magnetic ride control it's great at absorbing bumps, you don't get bounced around or even hardly feel them it's more like you only hear them might be the best way to describe it.

 

[GMCChevy]

if you don't need 4wd, I would think that unicorn 6.2 rwd tahoe would be good? if you did want a gmt900, maybe look for the rare 2500, or was it's 3500? the one with the 4l80 and 6.0 with no afm. that would seem like a good one for you and would hold value for the right people.


I agree that the 2015 and up look nice but seem to be a bit of a headache reliable wise.

funny you say the mileage is the same.. it's basically always the same.. from a 1996 4.3 v6 blazer to a 2025 tahoe/suburban. they all basically get 15-16 mph around down driven by a normal person. I sware there's a Gentlemen's Agreement between all the manufacturers that trucks and suv's get around 15 city, and they all just keep adding hp and weight from the tech but never break the agreement. gm build. a full size truck, put a turbo 4cyl in it and the things got practically the same mileage lol.

Oh there can be big differences. OBS one with 350 is a pig on gas compared to the newer ones.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

if I could find a cloud ride kit I would haha.

but again, that literally the point of the mag ride extra cost and hassle. to not be a trade off. it should ride nicer than the softest conventional setup and then stiffen up when needed. it can adjust damping to handle every situation. but it can't because gm added all the complexity with non of the rewards. Just like the OP is talking about with all the on screen controls, low reliability and costly repairs of the newer gens. without any real world benefits besides looking fancy to the person riding in the passenger seat.

that's all I'm saying, there shouldn't have to be a trade off.

I don't believe that GM claimed to be all thing to all worlds, and from floaty to stiff, in its active suspension system. There was never any intent on the part of GM to build an infinitely adjustable/variable suspension and label them as active suspension systems. The 'active' was never meant to include 'floaty'. In fact, a floaty 6000 lb. vehicle barreling down the road is really a bit of a safety hazard, IMO.

But, you've clearly made your point, and I respect that. I'm sure you that if you look hard enough, you will most likely find a set of shocks that will approximate your preferences. And, you'll most likely find that obtaining the ride that you are looking for will involve both tire size and style/category decisions as well.

 

[Bigburb3500]

I'm sure you that if you look hard enough, you will most likely find a set of shocks that will approximate your preferences. And, you'll most likely find that obtaining the ride that you are looking for will involve both tire size and style/category decisions as well.

Or buy a Lexus… Lexus went the way of softer suspension and plusher interiors. Germans went to the stiffers ride. GM is somewhere in between.

 

[K7KY]

I used to have a Gwagen, but the MB dealer is 100+mi from me. Our main vehicle is a 99 Tahoe Basic 4x4. Originally ordered by Gov't agency, it has underside skid plates and manual window cranks. It's a truck that fits my age, 86yrs. Although it's computerized, it's an affordable computer; I can fix most things myself. @ 186kmi, it's still runs and drives very well. I was a Blazer fan in the days of Blazers. The Tahoe is actually much better, although I resisted the upgrade for years.

 

[Bigburb3500]

I used to have a Gwagen, but the MB dealer is 100+mi from me. Our main vehicle is a 99 Tahoe Basic 4x4. Originally ordered by Gov't agency, it has underside skid plates and manual window cranks. It's a truck that fits my age, 86yrs. Although it's computerized, it's an affordable computer; I can fix most things myself. @ 186kmi, it's still runs and drives very well. I was a Blazer fan in the days of Blazers. The Tahoe is actually much better, although I resisted the upgrade for years.

Gwagens are cool trucks. Recent video on YouTube by LSC shows him going thru the lockers on it. Cool video.