3-Hour Battery change

[KC 2013 Tahoe]

Spent most of yesterday evening battling gremlins following replacement of the battery in my bride's '13 Tahoe LTZ

This weekend, it had started giving the tell-tale signs that this summer's record, long 110+ heat finally exacted its toll.
Weak/slow cranking and a new dash warning: "Battery Voltage Low, start engine immediately".
Verified the system was indeed charging with DVM. At idle measured 14.55 to 14.65 Volts.

OK, so no biggie, picked-up a replacement at Costco on way home from work yesterday. Following dinner went out and spent the obligatory 20-30 minutes removing the old battery, cleaning all the terminals, battery posts and 145Amp Fuse on positive cable end to a shiny finish, carefully re-connecting everything and finally snugging-down the battery hold-down block/nut. They were pretty clean to start with, but I always do this when changing a battery.

Was rewarded with a robust crank of the starter and the engine roaring to life with renewed vigor... along with a repetitive clicking sound from behind the RR interior plastic trim panel that wouldn't stop unless turning-off the ignition. Also a new warning message I've not seen before... more on that one shortly.
I know the guts for the rear HVAC are behind that panel, so thinking one of the servos is whacked. Tried disconnecting the battery again, waited 10 minutes and reconnected, only to be met with the same result. Drove it around the block to see if it would cease but no-bueno. Pulled over and shut the engine off, then cycled the ignition key off/on several times, noting the clicking got slower each time I cycled the ignition. After about 7 additional tries, it finally stopped... yeah!

Pulled into driveway and now decided to checkout the new warning message: "Parking Assist is blocked, see owners manual" WTF?!!
Shut it all off, got out my code reader, plugged it in and started her up only to meet with that infernal clicking sound again.
BTW - readout was all clear, 0-codes, 0-codes pending.

Grabbed owner's manual out of glovebox and read through it at kitchen table. The sage advice regarding the Parking Assist warning it offered was to take it to dealership to be looked at. Nope. Not going down that road. Will dig into it later, as it's not affecting driveability or being a nuisance.

Googled: "clicking noise after changing battery: 2013 Tahoe" and oh my... seems I have lots and lots of company on this one!
Seems there's a rear HVAC blend door and air level actuator with gears made of the same poor-quality plastic as on this vehicle's:
1) Power folding mirrors: (had already replaced both sides with Gruvenparts new motors and metal gears)
2) Inner front door pulls RH and LH: replaced LH with Dorman repair kit, RH w/OEM GM door panel
3) LR and RR Window regulators: brittle/shattered white plastic frames (replaced both with Dorman)
4) Outer Door handles all four of them: broken plastic pivots/anchors in all of them (again - Dorman to the rescue)

As it was now 10:15PM decided I'd try adjusting the temperature and Heater-A/C function settings to see if one of the servos had perhaps landed on a dead spot/split on the gear. Adjusted the temperature up/down a couple degrees and the noise finally stopped and hasn't come back. Going to pull panel and replace both servos over the long holiday weekend, but considering that OK for now. Yeah #2!

After restarting and pulling into the garage for the night, realized the Parking Assist warning miraculously cleared itself, so yeah! #3.

To close:
In my searches last night, came across a GM website hyping their quality:

Site Maintenance

To me their statement is outright insulting and borderline delusional:
"Rigorous testing. Renowned durability. At GM, we’re focused on engineering high-quality, durable and reliable products that hold up to the every day."

No quality-oriented company would design these items with cheap plastics that harden and shatter over time.
My wife (Science Teacher) commutes in her Tahoe to/from her school on paved roads every day.
She's not off-roading, driving through construction sites or roaring at high speeds down gravel roads.

IMHO: These components were designed to fail, pure and simple.

I'd encourage GM to respond to this, but I'm rather certain it'll be about how their materials selections are responsibly sourced globally from a diverse supply chain, to optimize vehicle fuel economy and ownership value.

 

[Fless]

An advanced scanner is likely needed to view the Parking Assist codes; a regular OBD scanner is only going to read engine and emissions codes.

 

[petethepug]

After my 06 YXL Denali I vowed never to buy another GM product. In ‘14 I got an 08 YXL Denali just to make sure I wasn’t mistaken about my decision.

The ‘08 Denali was the final straw. I sold that off and got an 09 Esky ESV Platinum in ‘20. The Esky is fast approaching 180k clicks.

The Esky is the most problematic because of all the money left in my bank account. That stupid 100+ octane e85 is only $2.59 gal vs $5+ gal for 91 here in SoCal.

The dollars saved on fuel add up faster than I can spend it on vehicle maintenance. It’s driving me nuts.

 

[Doubeleive]

hate to break it to ya but it's 12 years old, it needs maintenance.
more to come like heater hose T's
and if it is anywhere around 160k on the clock then there is a list of stuff to do

 

[PPV_2018]

what did you want them to say? “here at GM, we’re focused on engineering cheapie brittle parts with the most important components guaranteed to fail and outsourcing to the poorest quality assembly to pad our corporate income at the expense of our sucker customers”

sorry I guess I am just jaded. But It’s not just GM. Status quo

 

[the 18th letter]

Might be time to refresh your battery cables. They’re known to age from the insides out…

 

[PG01]

Might be time to refresh your battery cables. They’re known to age from the insides out…

Its just funny because as many times as we inform people about this nobody wants to hear it… no no i cleaned up the ends really good, its not that… or we tell them about splitting the fuse box to look for corrosion or throttle body wires…etc etc.. it just goes on and on… it goes in 1 ear and out the other…we are funny creatures indeed.

 

[KC 2013 Tahoe]

Appreciate the feedback!

I'm fully aware of my Tahoe's age and keep her well maintained, along with a lot of preventive maintenance.
I keep my vehicles a long time, and am rather intense in regards to maintaining their reliability.
As this is my bride's primary ride I don't ever want her stranded on the side of the road.

Being in S-central Arizona, our dry weather pretty much precludes corrosion on the body or to the wiring. I'm aware of the plethora battery cable issues, but even at 12 years old, they remain working fine. Keep in mind there's simply no moisture here to corrode them, plus I've been fortunate that the charging system hasn't ever over-charged or caused the acid to ever leak/seep and corrode the cable ends. Heck - the battery tray is still spotless!

I've changed the belts and all cooling system hoses religiously every five years, along with fresh GM coolant tees and fresh Dexcool.
At the ten year mark I installed a new radiator, thermostat, water pump and idler pulley (GM parts via Rock Auto).
This summer, proactively installed a new AC Delco fuel pump and Evap canister.

Oil (Mobil-1 synthetic) and filter changed every 4,000 miles. Transmission fluid/filter, transfer case and diffs every 2 years.
New torque convertor at 110K given the issues with the original JMBX time-bomb.

I take care of all the big stuff and have no complaints there, it's the cheaply-made actuators and extensive use of white nylon plastic on the items that are touched every day (door handles, armrests, mirrors etc) that is so maddening.
This latest escapade with a simple battery change kind of figuratively broke the camel's back for me.

I've worked in implantable medical electronics and currently electronics for aircraft flight control systems, so for me quality can't be taken lightly. It's designed-in. Exactly why I find it so insulting when GM claims they're "engineering high-quality, durable and reliable products".

In contrast, my daily driver is an '08 Dodge Ram1500 with 189K on the clock.
Not saying it's been perfect, but have never had a broken inner/outer door handle, armrest, window regulator, motor mount, or malfunctioning HVAC servo. These everyday components continue to withstand the test of time, unlike those in my 6-year newer Tahoe

 

[PPV_2018]

All I’m saying is look around. Any “newer” vehicle and I can assure you that it is not strictly a GM thing with cheapo parts and bad designs that are indeed designed to fail. Fact is that vehicles are lasting much longer than they did decades ago — but the corner cutting on practically everything becomes more evident with every passing year

Might be coming across as dismissive but again I am just jaded. As someone who, routinely overdoes it and beefs up things way more than necessary when possible, I agree that It’d be great to retrofit the internals of the majority of parts of vehicles and otherwise to include metal components and the likes of which would hold up forever..

But that certainly does not fit into the business model of a Fortune 500 company or basically any company that does mass production, does it?

GM says about their parts exactly what they “should” say. .. as in, what they are told to say by their marketing team. What exactly are you wanting GM Corporate to say about their own parts?

 

[KC 2013 Tahoe]

All good points.

I don't want, expect, nor care to listen to anything GM has to say.
They are figuratively dead to me.

 

[petethepug]

You’ve been offered sage advice on swapping out -/+ battery cables as something that should have been done @ years at year 10.

Your CanBus operates on 5v. Any resistance in the arteries from the heart will trigger a gremlin, waste your time and peak your frustration. Start with new wires because you should spend time with bride, not chasing false codes.

 

[KC 2013 Tahoe]

As a purely preventative measure will go ahead and look into getting some new ones.
Hard to argue with your logic.

I assume this large positive cable with inline fuse is the primary culprit. There's also another that goes from it to the alternator for charging, plus the negative post to engine block cable. Are all of these problem prone, or mainly the pictured one?

Appreciate the advice!

 

[petethepug]

It could be. The load, engine bay heat, jump starts and using every single electrically driven component in a storm at night overdraws the rated load on the cables.

That causes oxidation to accumulate internally. From that point it’s like a kink in a hose. One minute it’s fine, go over a bump, get a free random DTC. The gremlins get worse in cold weather.

The same issue occurs to owners who purchase the cheap, made overseas replacement z55/z95 Auto / MagRide struts.

They’ll blame the truck for all the issues they create and forgot the OEM struts took the truck close to 100k without issues.

 

[swathdiver]

Connecting the positive cable last instead of the negative cable can short out modules. When a car is first started after a battery change, it's best to drive it around for a bit to allow the computers to adjust from being cut off and for the battery to become fully charged.

My wife jumped our truck with some ratty cables from a passerby and shorted out the RR wheel speed sensor somehow. The RCDLR has been acting wonky ever since as well, hope I don't have to change that out but do have spares and ability to program if needs be.

My lesson, I knew the battery was nearing end of life and kept kicking the can down the road, trying to get to 48 months. It went 43 and I should not have put her in that position to deal with it. That's my job.

@KC 2013 Tahoe You mentioned using Mobile One oil. Have you done an oil analysis after using it?

 

[petethepug]

What does removing the negative battery terminal really do?

So, when you remove the negative battery terminal what components are really affected and reset to factory values?

www.tahoeyukonforum.com

Negative energy released from the truck to allow positive vibes to flow back in?

 

[mikez71]

Connecting the positive cable last instead of the negative cable can short out modules.

Never knew! Glad I always do negative last!

I always worry if I hook up the negative cable first,
the positive terminal might drop and contact ground somewhere..

 

[j91z28d1]

skimmed thru thru the thread.. just for anyone else. if you have the battery cables off to replace the the battery. before connecting everything back up. touch and hold the pos and neg cables together for about 30sec. this will discharge the systems in the truck and trigger a reset of the hvac blend doors. this info is buried in long threads on this site about flashing ac button lights.


if you have a good scanner you can also hit the blend door reset button instead.

I do agree that plastic gears inside hard to reach hvac doors is annoying. it's like that on all cars days thou.

how the original poster has broken all kinda of interior and exterior parts like door pulls and stuff I don't know. don't see threads about that commonly. if ever and none of mine have broken at 165k of use. I have a buddy we jokingly call the product testers because he's 6' 6" 350lbs, is like a bull in a China closet. Just no finesse, breaks everything he touches lol. dude goes ******* the daily.

 

[intheburbs]

I will add one more thing that's worked both on my GM trucks and my Jeeps. In fact, I just did it again with one of the Jeeps.

BLUF: leave the battery disconnected for AT LEAST 30 minutes.

Just had some work done on my wife's 2016. Rodent damage to wiring. Get it back from the shop, and the tech had disconnected the tap I use for the headlight halos and Christmas wreath. I'd forgotten how I'd hooked it up, pulled the wrong fuse, and now the TPMS wasn't reading any tire values. 4 dashes instead of pressure readings.

Disconnected battery for 10 minutes.... reconnect.... nothing changed.

Tried a few different things, no change. I just really didn't want to take it back to the shop. "Hail Mary" move was disconnecting the battery for like an hour. Reconnect and all is well.

Again, this has also worked on my GM trucks. I don't know why, but it's worked several times. YMMV.

ETA: Jeep with lighted Christmas wreath..

 

[KC 2013 Tahoe]

skimmed thru thru the thread.. just for anyone else. if you have the battery cables off to replace the the battery. before connecting everything back up. touch and hold the pos and neg cables together for about 30sec. this will discharge the systems in the truck and trigger a reset of the hvac blend doors. this info is buried in long threads on this site about flashing ac button lights.


if you have a good scanner you can also hit the blend door reset button instead.

I do agree that plastic gears inside hard to reach hvac doors is annoying. it's like that on all cars days thou.

how the original poster has broken all kinda of interior and exterior parts like door pulls and stuff I don't know. don't see threads about that commonly. if ever and none of mine have broken at 165k of use. I have a buddy we jokingly call the product testers because he's 6' 6" 350lbs, is like a bull in a China closet. Just no finesse, breaks everything he touches lol. dude goes ******* the daily.

j91z28d1: Just came across your response to my post. Good suggestions! Next time will follow your advice regarding putting the posts together before reconnecting a new battery. In the interrim, have changed the three main cables and so far, so good. Regarding the breaking plastic, it's very common in Arizona. Our extreme summer heat and UV from the intense/relentless sunlight rapidly ages plastic, turning it prematurely brittle. A poor material choice for out here, but I'll take that as opposed to road salt corrosion any day! KC

 

[Fless]

Next time will follow your advice regarding putting the posts together before reconnecting a new battery.

I'm sure you meant this, but just be sure it's the CABLE ends you're touching together and not the battery posts.