Hp tuners, torque management clarity

In case it helps anyone else out i had hours into tonight's setup

First starting off with torque reduction upshift being turned back on to enabled. I made this change, even with 20%tm removed, it shifted identical to stock.

I made so many changes its unreal.

Ct downshift, upshift and power downshift remain disabled, speed cntrl terminate is still immediate(found another video of a tuner doing 85%tm, immediate and enabled top 3 that I've taken out

Now I have 40% total taken out from transition time between gears. 1-2,2-3,3-4 shift times are to .20 at wot(last 6 figures), and due to the last tune being so aggressive at part throttle I did the first 6 rows at .40, bottom 6 at .20 then interpolate to blend everything out and went to 90%tm. I also fully disabled any spark reduction timing engine wise.

Truthfully I think for my truck this is probably going to be my last revision trans wise. Maybe its my lack of knowledge the torque management actually seems to help coordinate the shift from what ive gathered

Part throttle is crisp, quick and firm, wot is a good snap (not violent)and still barks the tires on the shift. Now from .27 at my max to .20 on 2-3 the inconsistent row boat shift is gone. Granted adaptives are fresh but this seems to be off to a good start, ill post a video tomorrow

For what its worth, im unsure if the tach in the videos is having issues or whether I have a delay. Ive realized my shift points are 300rpm above stock and ive yet to see the needle above 5500

Have you raised your full throttle shift rpm? Is that what you are referring to as 300rpm over stock? If so, and you didn't raise full throttle shift speeds, that may still be commanding your shift early. ALTHOUGH, from what I'm reading both MPH and RPM's need to be met to shift, but perhaps different OS's do it different..(Have read about it short shifting because of MPH in Camaro and G8) Will have to test.. Datalog and you can see exactly what rpms you're hitting.

Even though my WOT 1-2 torque adders are around .37 (stock 2018 setting) my WOT 1-2 shift time logs right around .800 seconds. Rather slow, I may need to try immediate torque ramp after all. Yours seems much faster, especially with the chirping the tires..

mikez71 said:

Have you raised your full throttle shift rpm? Is that what you are referring to as 300rpm over stock?
If so, and you didn't raise full throttle shift speeds, that may still be commanding your shift early.
ALTHOUGH, from what I'm reading, both MpH and RpMs need to be met to shift,
but perhaps different OS's do it different.

Click to expand...

At 'part throttle', MpH is accurate enough to time & coordinate shifts.
At WOT, using RpM is much safer than road speed as a shift timing criteria - better resolution, more precise, not subject to tire pressure variations.
The way GM writes their files, they intentionally underestimate (slightly) the MpH as a safety feature, in case the crank or cam sensors fail / disagree,
or the tires are undersized from wear.
Under normal circumstances, once the 1st criteria is met (road speed), then the 2nd criteria (RpM) will be used to initiate the shift.

Unless the valvesprings have been upgraded, it is not a good idea to raise the WOT Upshift RpM more than 100RpM.

Also, when I upped my full throttle 1-2 speeds/rpms, the truck didn't feel any faster. Power was dropping off, so there maybe no gain an a stock 5.3.

mikez71 said:

Also, when I upped my full throttle 1-2 speeds/RpMs, the truck didn't feel any faster. Power was dropping off, so there maybe no gain on a stock 5.3L.

Click to expand...

In terms of peak horses, no, there's no point in upping the WOT UpShift points.
Nevermind that you don't want to chance the quality control metallurgy of the valvesprings.
In fact, if you want the engine to last longer, doesn't hurt to LOWER the WOT UpShift RpMs 100-200RpM (more than that is pointless) -
just don't forget to lower the road speeds a lil bit too in case the crank / cam sensors fail / disagree.

I have hit a wall on my WOT shifts. Spark will hold at 9degrees on the rebound, always at 260lb/ft torque, about .45-.50 seconds in, extending my shift time to .600-.825 seconds. Typically .775-.825, the last log I bumped oncoming pressure 20% so that is how I got down to .60-.70 seconds..

Guessing @LSxBakakos has a fresher transmission. I'm still at 100% torque management, and I don't think it's any kind of limiter, though it pauses right at 260lb/ft torque everytime..

Only thing I can guess, is the trans is expecting slip to be less than the 200-300 rpms that is there at that moment..

At least it feels OK driving around, but I wonder how much further this 240k trans will go..

The yellow graph, spark timing dip shows the shift time exactly.

stock torque adders, stock oncoming pressure, initial shift time .50, transition at 170-200rpms, TM plateau another .30s. Total .72 - .80 seconds.


2018 torque adders, 1.2x oncoming pressure, initial shift time .35s, transition at 220-280rpms, TM plateau ~.30s. Total .60 - .70 seconds.


stock torque adders, 1.3x oncoming pressure, initial shift time .50s, transition 130-160rpms, TM ramp .10s. Total .60 seconds.


Guess I'm slipping, and bumping torque adders can speed up initial phase, but that also leaves more rpm slip for TM phase to make up.
Bumping pressure seems to help both shift and TM phases, although I see no pressure difference in the logs (PCS 4 looks to be engaging for second gear).

mikez71 said:

Have you raised your full throttle shift rpm? Is that what you are referring to as 300rpm over stock? If so, and you didn't raise full throttle shift speeds, that may still be commanding your shift early. ALTHOUGH, from what I'm reading both MPH and RPM's need to be met to shift, but perhaps different OS's do it different..(Have read about it short shifting because of MPH in Camaro and G8) Will have to test.. Datalog and you can see exactly what rpms you're hitting.

Even though my WOT 1-2 torque adders are around .37 (stock 2018 setting) my WOT 1-2 shift time logs right around .800 seconds. Rather slow, I may need to try immediate torque ramp after all. Yours seems much faster, especially with the chirping the tires..

Click to expand...

Im unsure if its correct but ive been told that wot rpm is safer than changing mph and that 12+ dont require both to be changed? Im unsure truthfully. As far as rpm im at 5700 1-2, 5500 2-3, 3-4.

I tried to do as little as possible to see what changes did what. Im still on immediate, its just the upshift torque reduction was a HUGE difference in feel

Im definitely debating about trying torque ramp with upshift reduction still disabled. Im sure I can do the first 6 rows .50 under shift time, bottom 6 right .20, interpolate and make it less aggressive down low, but for my own sanity that small function will be my next change

Marky Dissod said:

In terms of peak horses, no, there's no point in upping the WOT UpShift points.
Nevermind that you don't want to chance the quality control metallurgy of the valvesprings.
In fact, if you want the engine to last longer, doesn't hurt to LOWER the WOT UpShift RpMs 100-200RpM (more than that is pointless) -
just don't forget to lower the road speeds a lil bit too in case the crank / cam sensors fail / disagree.

Click to expand...

To a point I do agree with this, valve springs absolutely do fatigue over miles, theres no doubting that.

Back when i had my 01 they bumped wot shift points a few hundred rpm, I was CAI and exhaust, now digging into tuning this 14, its made me realize power enrichment paired with less restriction may bump up where "peak" power is made. I just dont have a dyno to back it up. Back when I was assembling engines, a lot of cam cards showed power band range, ex 3500-8000, normally theres 500 extra rpm past peak, granted everything is a risk, the little rpm bump im not worried about. If theres a PTV event itll gladly give me a reason to swap a cammed 6.2 into it

mikez71 said:

I have hit a wall on my WOT shifts. Spark will hold at 9degrees on the rebound, always at 260lb/ft torque, about .45-.50 seconds in, extending my shift time to .600-.825 seconds. Typically .775-.825, the last log I bumped oncoming pressure 20% so that is how I got down to .60-.70 seconds..

Guessing @LSxBakakos has a fresher transmission. I'm still at 100% torque management, and I don't think it's any kind of limiter, though it pauses right at 260lb/ft torque everytime..

Only thing I can guess, is the trans is expecting slip to be less than the 200-300 rpms that is there at that moment..

At least it feels OK driving around, but I wonder how much further this 240k trans will go..

Click to expand...

Im very curious, where is engine tm set to? If you turn off spark reduction to disabled in both tables and log again if that time changes?

Also can flip torque reduction upshift to off and see, I believe thats the final way to shut off engine tm from interfering(and if im wrong someone please correct me)

As far as fresher trans mine is an SSV lol, and im sure boulder mountain rangers were anything but nice to it lol

If youre keeping up with matinenece, trans filter/fluid changes and some added line pressure im sure shell go for a while! Honestly with how mooshy they are stock any slip youre taking out between gear changes id imagine youll be extending clutch life

Latest revision, can see differences in 1-2 2-3, where all of my focus has been. Then how sluggish the 3-4 is which ill clean up

LSxBakakos said:

Im very curious, where is engine tm set to? If you turn off spark reduction to disabled in both tables and log again if that time changes?

Click to expand...

So far, my torque management is on 100%.. Figure I'd try speed increases without messing with TM.. but not really getting anywhere.
I think minimum final spark torque management.. can reduce the timing pull to 0.. (I haven't done it yet)
All the other settings look like they are part of axle torque limit, anti clunk, fast torque exit.. shouldn't affect anything normally..?

Here's something I just spotted, engine torque dipping well before the shift..
Engine torque dips and stays flat from 4800rpms to 5500rpms. I thought it may have been some pre shift limiter or TM, but when intake temps were cooler @66degF, the plateau is 285lb/ft, and when inake temp @124degF, its 255lb/ft..

LSxBakakos said:

and some added line pressure im sure shell go for a while! Honestly with how mooshy they are stock any slip youre taking out between gear changes id imagine youll be extending clutch life

Click to expand...

Agreed, that's one of the reasons I've held off on torque management changes, but plan to test it still..

All the pressure changes I've made so far, I can't see any change in my logs.
Like the SIU videos, he bumps a lot of pressure settings, but there's no change.
Oncoming pressure seems to affect shift times a little, yet I bump it more and my times slow down again..

I'm wondering if a .05 or even .1 sec difference is just other ocurring variables..
And I may need to let it adapt, in one log the first two shifts were .675 seconds, next two .650, last one .625...

Regarding torque adders being only a portion of the shift time..
When I speed it up, the torque management(I think) holds off on finishing the shift a little longer to smooth it out..
I'm actually getting faster shift times NOT reducing my torque adders at WOT.... (with torque management)

Currently thinking about the discrete shift torque mode (factory enabled for 1-2 and 2-3)
Disabling it, or bumping the high torque setting.. (Although the stock setting of 442.5lb/ft is already at it's stated input torque capacity)
And finally test and log torque management reduction..

Did a couple Torque Management logs set to 0.7.

First, stock torque adders (.47s)
Timing only drops to -2.0 degrees! (vs -7.5 degrees) Total shift time .550 seconds.


Next, '18 torque adders (.37s)
BUT timing still drops to -7.5 degrees! Total shift time .450 seconds!


Reverted tune to the first one, verified timing only drops to -2 degrees.
The shift time upto that last timing step, is pretty much the torque adder setting exactly..

Aand the last timing step is almost always .10 seconds.. Perhaps the upshift torque reduction @LSxBakakos was mentioning? Or clunk reduction or tip in setting?
EXCEPT when I raised oncoming pressures a bit more, that last timing step is .20 seconds!
Timing dropped to -2 degrees. Total shift time was .650 seconds.
This one back to stock .47s torque adder, .475s shift time upto the cursor..(Previous graphs have cursor at minimum spark timing)


Of these tunes, I prefer the first one. The second one, while faster, feels like it pauses slightly, then drops into second gear. Like the abruptness of the torque graph.

I will be going back to stock pressures (Was running slightly upped settings from a 2018 tune). Also testing axle and clunk reduction settings before trying upshift torque reduction!

So far I'm pleased with .7 torque management. I don't notice any harshness at all. How low can you go before it's noticeable?

mikez71 said:

Did a couple Torque Management logs set to 0.7.

First, stock torque adders (.47s)
Timing only drops to -2.0 degrees! (vs -7.5 degrees) Total shift time .550 seconds.
View attachment 485575

Next, '18 torque adders (.37s)
BUT timing still drops to -7.5 degrees! Total shift time .450 seconds!
View attachment 485574

Reverted tune to the first one, verified timing only drops to -2 degrees.
The shift time upto that last timing step, is pretty much the torque adder setting exactly..

Aand the last timing step is almost always .10 seconds.. Perhaps the upshift torque reduction @LSxBakakos was mentioning? Or clunk reduction or tip in setting?
EXCEPT when I raised oncoming pressures a bit more, that last timing step is .20 seconds!
Timing dropped to -2 degrees. Total shift time was .650 seconds.
This one back to stock .47s torque adder, .475s shift time upto the cursor..(Previous graphs have cursor at minimum spark timing)
View attachment 485579

Of these tunes, I prefer the first one. The second one, while faster, feels like it pauses slightly, then drops into second gear. Like the abruptness of the torque graph.

I will be going back to stock pressures (Was running slightly upped settings from a 2018 tune). Also testing axle and clunk reduction settings before trying upshift torque reduction!

So far I'm pleased with .7 torque management. I don't notice any harshness at all. How low can you go before it's noticeable?

Click to expand...

Thats a step in the right direction then! And before you do that(at least from what I can find online on hptuners forums) apparently that's the master disable for trans tm so maybe hold off lol? Im going to drop mine to .50 next Thursday and re enable upshift,CT downshift and power and see what happens

mikez71 said:

Did a couple Torque Management logs set to 0.7.

First, stock torque adders (.47s)
Timing only drops to -2.0 degrees! (vs -7.5 degrees) Total shift time .550 seconds.
View attachment 485575

Next, '18 torque adders (.37s)
BUT timing still drops to -7.5 degrees! Total shift time .450 seconds!
View attachment 485574

Reverted tune to the first one, verified timing only drops to -2 degrees.
The shift time upto that last timing step, is pretty much the torque adder setting exactly..

Aand the last timing step is almost always .10 seconds.. Perhaps the upshift torque reduction @LSxBakakos was mentioning? Or clunk reduction or tip in setting?
EXCEPT when I raised oncoming pressures a bit more, that last timing step is .20 seconds!
Timing dropped to -2 degrees. Total shift time was .650 seconds.
This one back to stock .47s torque adder, .475s shift time upto the cursor..(Previous graphs have cursor at minimum spark timing)
View attachment 485579

Of these tunes, I prefer the first one. The second one, while faster, feels like it pauses slightly, then drops into second gear. Like the abruptness of the torque graph.

I will be going back to stock pressures (Was running slightly upped settings from a 2018 tune). Also testing axle and clunk reduction settings before trying upshift torque reduction!

So far I'm pleased with .7 torque management. I don't notice any harshness at all. How low can you go before it's noticeable?

Click to expand...

It just popped into my head now regarding your comment and the .70 tm

Last week before I switched back to upshift enabled I did try 70% as you did, and under part throttle it felt exactly as if it was stock. There was no bump/positive lurch during a gear change, so that was when I changed it back.

I hate to be a part of another forum however Im debating on joining hpt just for terminology and a definitive answer on trans functions

46:45 and up, can glance at his settings and also fully draws out a tm table, this definitely seems like a better way to fine tune tm

I didnt want to post a reply until I had figured out whats going on

First things first, ive been using adder modifier for my torque management ramp. So far -.55 off idle to the third to last column, then -.60(40%tm remaining for the last two columns which I think are 5000 and 6300?)

After scanning hpt forums theres an aussie guy called tre-cool that seems like an absolute wealth of knowledge. During some evidence on 6l80e shifting he mentioned shift times or "torque adder" aka shift time will help, but wont clean things up in full, that interia and oncoming all need to work together. He mentioned going into the oncoming pressure presets in the adaptives and while his values for heavy cars/trucks was 0:250kpa 1:550kpa 2:1200kpa where as other cars were a little heavier maxing out at 1700. I did 20% oncoming and offgoing or multiply 1.20 across the board 2-3,3-4 are super quick and decently firm, the 1-2 has been the laziest shift to which ive been sneaking up on. So im not going much further on the trans side. I feel like shift speed wise this has been the biggest change

As far as inertia theres one guy that posted his g8 tune and I realized mine somehow only changed up top at section 9 rather than the whole table. 0 should be left at zero, g8 was .250 1-8 stock then he changed #9 to .20. I realized this wasnt enough for my liking and its been blended from .20 down to .12 @9

Shift timing on mine has seemed to work best from .50 in the negatives, .44 at the 0/far left and bottom right (wot/high rpm) 6 tables set to .20 and interpolate between

Shift pressures ive brought down to 140 psi in max pressure and made sure the taper off in line pressure stayed constant/didnt fall off

Ive also realized until adaptives have been learning for 100mi wot is violent on the 2-3 so ive been avoiding doing so lol but I do hope this helps others out