Coyote's Escalade

[theycallmecoyote]

So I just pulled the trigger on a '16 Escalade and I've been doing a little research on a few light mods, intake, flapper bolt mod, maybe swap out the muffler for a Magnaflow or something (not a full cat back, just the muffler), nothing too crazy. Might throw on some Hotchkis sway bars at some point.

I guess I'm curious if anyone has input on how well a canned tune from, say, Diablo will work with those type of bolt ons? I saw the Black Bear intake comparisons, and saw the notes on a few of the intakes that tuning is probably necessary due to the intake leaning things out too much. Will a canned tune be enough to rectify that? There also seems to be a slight hesitation right off idle before power comes on, which I gather is a common issue and one that I definitely want to address. Truth be told, I think just an intake should be enough to get that off the line power where I want it, but afraid I'd be running too lean with just intake. I guess at the end of the day I'd like the ability to turn AFM off if I want to as well, especially if I'm gonna do the flapper mod.

PS I know the group consensus around here is Black Bear Black Bear Black Bear and I totally get that custom, tailored tunes are the bees knees. However, I have had "good enough" experience with canned options in the past that I prefer just a plug and play option rather than all the data logging and back and forth that comes with custom tunes. I also work exclusively on a work issued laptop, so any downloads or software or files are a pretty big no no.

 

[STORMIN08]

i my self am researching the same...i generally lean towards superchips as the service is great. but in this case, i saw that Diablo states some relatively more fine tunable items ( timing and A/F Ratio), havent called to see if that is correct for a gas gm product, but i plan to as it has looking at them more so than before.

i will let you know what i come up with.

 

[STORMIN08]

Superchips, diablo, edge and range are all one in the same company umbrella...i tied again to call, takes to long to get a tech.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

Cool, thanks Shawn

 

[Joseph Garcia]

I know that you are looking for tune options other than Black Bear Performance for your tune, and I cannot specifically assist you there.

However, I know that a Black Bear Performance tune gives you the opportunity to re-tune both the ECM and the TCM. For many folks, the re-tune of the TCM has as great an impact on performance and driveability as the re-tune of the TCM. I do not know if the other tune options provide the opportunity to re-tune both the ECM and TCM, but I am recommending that you consider this parameter/requirement, as well, as you look at other tune options.

 

[George B]

I strongly considered the Diablo but decided to just save my coin for the black bear specifically for the TCM tune. I primarily dislike the shift points and firmness of the factory tune.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

That is absolutely something I have considered, and I believe Diablo does have options for transmission tuning, I.E. shift points and firmness.

Edit to add: some of the Diablo options are also open ended for future custom tunes, so I guess if I go that direction and am unhappy with the canned tunes I can always have a custom file built later? I think I'm talking myself into it, but still definitely would like to hear feedback from people who have used the canned tunes.

 

[Prospect62]

I have owned my 16 'Burban since January. I had originally purchased a Range AFM disabler to handle that chore and then I drove it like that for months, but the factory transmission programming in this truck (which I spent good money on as we all know) left me disappointed every day. The truck just never felt like it had a 355 HP mill, even knowing it's a Suburban with 3.08 gears. I even had the dealer look at it initially because it shifted so lazily, but I was told it was normal. Being on this forum confirmed that I am not alone in hating the OEM tune.

As you say, everyone here might as well have a Black Bear tattoo but it's just not in the cards for some people. I have a Crown Vic project car - I paid good money for an SCT tuner and a custom written tune from a legit speed shop for it. I know the benefits of doing it that way. But for the family hauler I don't think it's necessary.

A couple weeks ago I found a deal on a used Superchips Flashpaq 2845 tuner that I couldn't pass up. I had good luck with a Superchips Flashpaq on a Ram 1500 that I owned years ago, so I gave it a shot. I installed the basic "87 Octane" canned tune and turned off the AFM (by the way I was able to sell my Range and recoup most of the cost of the Flashpaq). So far, I am very pleased with the results. The Flashpaq canned 87 tune raised the shift point RPMS, firmed up the shifts and just made the truck feel a bit more lively and sure of itself. It's not earth-shattering but it's exactly what I needed. Just a little kick in the pants. I assume the "91 Performance" canned tune might be even better, but I am going to stay with the 87 tune for now and see how it goes. My gas mileage has stayed about the same but overall, for the small investment I am quite happy with it. The Flashpaq also allows for nearly infinite custom adjustments in shift points, shift firmness, torque management, tire size, gear ratio, etc. I haven't even begun to screw around with all that. The 87 tune does fine, and if I get hungry for more I'll try the 91.

If a time comes where I wanna run this thing down the 1/4 mile with groceries flying out the back, maybe I'll invest the money in a Black Bear tune. For now, for much less than half the cost (if you can find a used Flashpaq) the Superchips did really well.

Just my $.02 - not trying to run down Black Bear. Just letting you know there are other effective options.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

Hey Prospect, thanks for the input, your experience sounds pretty similar to what I'm after. I guess I should refine my original question a bit, in that what I'm really asking is, will a canned tune be enough to deal with a probable lean situation due to adding cold air intake? Maybe I should just reach out to Diablo and see what they say.

 

[STORMIN08]

have you data logged to verify a lean condition ? or if yo have, what is the A/F ratio you speak of and what rpm range ?

 

[theycallmecoyote]

No, I don't even have the vehicle yet, this is strictly hypothetical on my end, trying to gain some knowledge from those with firsthand experience before I start buying parts and such.

Also, either I'm a dumbass or I just don't read well, but since Diablo transmission tuning looks like it only applies to the 6 speed and I have an 8 speed, that may have just knocked them out of the running.

Might have another convert comin' for ya Black Bear!

 

[Prospect62]

what I'm really asking is, will a canned tune be enough to deal with a probable lean situation due to adding cold air intake?

I'm pretty sure that the ECM of any modern vehicle will be able to compensate for any incremental added air volume an aftermarket "cold air intake" would provide, as long as it's within the mechanical capabilities of the injectors (which I'm positive it would be - it's a CAI not a turbo). With or without a tune.

Has someone told you that a CAI will cause a lean condition? Is that a common problem with these trucks? I'll be the first to admit that I don't know as much about these things as I do about other makes and models. But I can say that from what I DO know, your ECM should be able to adjust fuel delivery to compensate for whatever added air a CAI provides, if any.

If you're referring to a performance intake MANIFOLD (and not a cold air intake) leaning things out too much, I still think it would be well within the parameters of the stock ECM to adjust for it and if not, any tuner (canned or not) should help.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

The information I garnered from the Black Bear intake comparo indicated that with certain intakes the mixture gets *very* lean to a point that tuning would be more than just ideal but pretty much required. Thus Thus my question, as I too found it hard to believe that the ECM wouldn't be able to adjust for that.

I think my plan of action at this point is I'm just gonna drop an AFE in there and see where that gets me. If that gets the driving experience where I want it that may just be the end of it. If it still feels sluggish, hesitant, tranny too soft, whatever, I'll get Black Bear on the phone.

 

[STORMIN08]

The AFE would be my choice based on the results sheet indicating best TQ numbers and minimal tuning req.

in my opinion, the best appearing also.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

Absolutely agree Shawn. Plus I saw Tony (Norcal SS) posted some very compelling dyno numbers across the board after putting the AFE on his otherwise stock rig. I also like that it's a lidded box, rather than a lot of the other open top designs.

 

[George B]

The information I garnered from the Black Bear intake comparo indicated that with certain intakes the mixture gets *very* lean to a point that tuning would be more than just ideal but pretty much required. Thus Thus my question, as I too found it hard to believe that the ECM wouldn't be able to adjust for that.

I think my plan of action at this point is I'm just gonna drop an AFE in there and see where that gets me. If that gets the driving experience where I want it that may just be the end of it. If it still feels sluggish, hesitant, tranny too soft, whatever, I'll get Black Bear on the phone.

The throttle lag and spongy trans tune is enough for me to decide to do a tune as a first mod.

 

[theycallmecoyote]

The throttle lag and spongy trans tune is enough for me to decide to do a tune as a first mod.

That certainly seems logical but IF I end up tuning it, I only wanna do it once. And I definitely know that I want to do intake (if only for the little extra noise, since I probably won't do a lot to the exhaust).

 

[dsh1106]

I went with a Diablew tune, awesome to work with.

www.diablewtune.com

Scott

 

[Tiredmechanic23]

That certainly seems logical but IF I end up tuning it, I only wanna do it once. And I definitely know that I want to do intake (if only for the little extra noise, since I probably won't do a lot to the exhaust).

The AFE is more than a little noise. Its a wonderful sound and is significantly throatier and louder than the stock setup. They do provide a decent amount of HP for a CAI and are super easy to install. But a tune be it canned or a custom would net a bit more from the CAI and of course the tunes changes itself. Even with a peppier power plant from the CAI or the canned the trans will still be lazy but it may be enough for you as everyone is different.

But if after the CAI install you still think you need a bit more I would try to go blackbear just for the TCM changes. The difference they can make in how the trans feels is night and day. The lazy downshifts when exiting a turn or corner, the sluggish up shifts at times when just lightly cruising or even the gear searching at odd times where it seems to not know what it wants to do all that they can quickly fix. The factory trans tunes have a lot of overlap and they clean all that up.

Money aside dealing with the data logs and such can be a hassle for some but if you can get up a way to do the downloads and uploads needed and find the time its far worth it. The re tunes are nice as well to have even if you think you will only ever tune once. You may later on down the road get a urge to make some other changes and they can make changes to go along with that to take full advantage.

 

[Captain Insaino]

Just my humble 2 cents.

A CAI is just for sound (sounds badass). Power gains are negligible, if anything. Your truck will compensate for any increased airflow. After all, GM offers one without a tune.

A tune's power gains will also be negligible up top, unless you are exclusivly running E85. Under the curve, it may feel more powerful. Perhaps a little better MPG.

The beauty of a tune is in the throttle response, the option of manipulating AFM and most noticably the transmission tuning, which I consider the biggest bang for the buck.