I think a direct conversation with Black Bear is needed for those types of questions. People get tunes to achieve different goals; Fuel Economy, towing, 1/4 mile, etc.
Long term owners of BlackBear Autocal tunes.
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I think a direct conversation with Black Bear is needed for those types of questions. People get tunes to achieve different goals; Fuel Economy, towing, 1/4 mile, etc.
swathdiver
Full Access Member
Such is very hard for BB to quantify as there are so many more variables compared to a car. Differences in options alone can add hundreds pounds of weight and then you have differences in gearing, engine condition and transmissions.
Having said that, I'll share with you my results. I do not have a stock baseline but we know that my particular truck's engine was rated for 310 HP, SAE Net. How much of that makes it to the rear wheels in the quarter mile I do not know. However, the only modification to my truck is the BlackBear tune and it's not even a max performance tune as I kept asking Justin to dial it back when he was tuning it. I wanted AFM turned off more than anything but boy does the transmission operate beautifully now. Ok, back on topic!
Ok, only performance mod is BB tune. With failing cats and a K&N air filter (33-2129) in the stock airbox, her best run through the traps in the quarter mile was 301.86 Rear Wheel Horsepower. She averaged 299.57 HP that night. Almost 13 months later, with a stock paper air filter (A3085C) and a new Magnaflow Y-pipe and cats (51578), same weather as the previous year, she made 307.52 RWHP through the traps. She averaged 306.76 RWHP that night.
So how much horsepower does it take to turn a 6L80 through a MP3023 transfer case and the 8.6" Rear Differential and BFG KO2 AT tires? 50 or 60 horses?
Peacock
Full Access Member
I could live with that, at least it's some factual numbers, like you my main interest is turning off that AFM but would also like a little more kick in the pants during normal driving. While searching performance mods I came across a few ads promising 25%, 50% and others claiming 100hp to the wheels, that's why I thought it was odd to not mention any numbers in their ad.
I'm not building a max performance thing with the Tahoe, I have a couple other cars for that, just looking for a fun daily driver/tow vehicle. I guess that's part of my problem having the other old school cars is I know what mods do what and what I can expect with certain amount of cash outlay on parts. With the Tahoe being computer controlled it's out of my wheelhouse and I'd be totally reliant on someone else to tune the darn thing for me.
swathdiver
Full Access Member
Same here and the learning curve with computer programming is long and can be expensive if you lean the motor out and melt a piston, been there, done that ('79 Buick)! So I relied on Justin's expertise and have not been disappointed. The tune is the best bang for the buck, everything else gets more expensive afterwards. The good thing about the tune with BB is if you add headers or a better exhaust, you can send in a new data log and BB will update the tune for as long as you own the truck.
Peacock
Full Access Member
Well that's good news that it's something that can be reconfigured as you go along, when I had my Buick T-Type I had the 93 chip and the 100 octane chip which h of course neither of those two can be turned up or down.
I have a roots blown 540 in one of my other vehicles and going lean is my worst fear, as a matter of fact I'm currently upgrading everything from fuel cell forward to keep one step ahead of it..lol.
I won't do anything on the Tahoe until the roads are clear of winter salt so I've got a couple months yet, I might do the air intake and maybe a less restrictive muffler before enquiring about the tuner, thanks for your input it's much appreciated.
swathdiver
Full Access Member
Was that a "Red 93" chip? That was a pretty good one but the Kenne Bell Ultimate was great for day to day and had an '86 GN that loved the 137R Pit Bull for daily use, that car ran 13.69 on its first night at the drags.
Peacock
Full Access Member
Yes, the local turbo buick club had many members using Red Armstrong pieces so that was my direction too, some of their cars were pretty fast, my car actually got turned into a full blown drag car, it went 10's on factory long block and ended up in the 9's with a stage ll block.
I still haven't tried the u-turn, but the abs was out for a day (I smashed the cable over a speed bump) and I put it in 2wd boy she likes to do burn out's pretty easy lol, easy to do in a pickup though
swathdiver
Full Access Member
Red is/was a good guy, did a lot of business with him back then and we used to race together in Bowling Green for a number of years. Coincidence, my last GN was also turned into a dedicated drag car, cage, tub, the whole works. It's in Georgia last time I checked. While I had it, it was completely stock appearing, airbox, exahaust, radials, etc. Great sleeper car!
chilleblanco36
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This thread has me wanting a BB Tune.i hate the shift points and the way the truck drives. Sounds like BB is the solution
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mikeyss
Full Access Member
If you have a 6 speed auto, you will really love the BB tune. When my 6 speed tune was stock, it always wanted to upshift too quick... BB tune let's the trans stay in all of the gears longer, especially at light throttle. The shifts under normal acceleration feel stock, but when you put the hammer down, the shifts are much firmer and quicker.
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As started above, the shift points on the 6-speed trans are much better, after a Black Bear tune. When putting the hammer down, the tune will allow you to use all of the motor's rpm and power range, before shifting to the next gear.
Just do it!
Just do it!
chilleblanco36
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I am. Just purchased an autocal and it should be here Tuesday. Getting the tune underway ASAP at that point
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Peacock
Full Access Member
I put my deposit in on the Autocal V3 on Friday, I didn't realize there was regular, V2 and V3 but it seems the V3 is the only one you can order.
Reading all the comments of what it does convinced me to do it, I was waiting till I got the aftermarket muffler on before going to this step, and they finally let the muffler shop reopen.
Hopefully the Autocal isn't to long of a wait to become available so I can get a little more geddy-up on this Tahoe.
Reading all the comments of what it does convinced me to do it, I was waiting till I got the aftermarket muffler on before going to this step, and they finally let the muffler shop reopen.
Hopefully the Autocal isn't to long of a wait to become available so I can get a little more geddy-up on this Tahoe.
Sorry, no.
hardluck13
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Sorry I’ll admit that I just skimmed through some of the responses. I hope black bear is still here to answer or hopefully you guys can. All my vehicles from my high horsepower bs builds, all my SEMA builds and to my daily driven diesel and half ton builds are all dynoed with parameters and settings set. I have this NBS Tahoe that’s currently motor stock but is Done at suspension, then Is the paints shop and then finally motor. Tahoe has 55k (prob 60k now) og miles and I’m looking to changed out rear end, header, intake, stall, exhaust, cam and probably heads - nothing major. Is black bear the the way to go to set my upgrades, have ir stored in a handheld and then if I do more upgrades are there more charges to change the needs of the truck? Or how does it all work?
they give free re-tunes as long as you own the vehicle so if you change something they send you new tune, usually takes 2-weeks it's not a overnight sensation type of thing, they are busy and new customers get in line first.
hardluck13
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Thanks for the quick reply. Do I need to have it dynoed and the numbers sent off for them to know base line and then dynoed for them to know adders and have them tune appropriately? And I assuming like the hypertechs or whatever for 20 years ago putting back to stock is simple through the hand held? I just thought I’d try something different with this old ass Hoe. It’s been fun messing around and playing with it. I love the NBS interiors and having this thing in the family since new I know it’s secrets and figured it can be fun. I have a grip of trucks ans all my old cars. So I thought a NBS but Tahoe could be fun. It has been except: the ride is dog shit. It has torsion delete, full adjustable coilovers, all new bushings, sway bars front and rear, DJM rear kit, Tony’s springs, belltech rear shocks (DJM extenders), adjustable panhard, belltech front spindles along with the coilovers. Only other thought is full moog make over up front along offset a arms. But I’ve have the full spohn treatment in the real (kept the panhard) and nothing is helping . I’ve had some crazy ass SEMA builds that people thought wouldn’t work that rode and out performed this and many other trucks. One won autocross and Goodguys and SEMA awards. Sorry to sound like an ass. After my meds and alcohol just hoping to find help this great forum seems right give a lot of others. Thanks again. I’ve belonged for along time but never share. Love the threads and pictures. One is marks (the machine and the beast). It sucked caused I read each post in it’s entirety and during which I was I like no don’t wanna get this , and save your money for this, but I was so far behind I couldn’t help. Great job with both just wish I could’ve helped. Sorry for horrible grammar
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First off, thanks for the mention on my builds. I have learned a lot throughout and I’m sure you could have helped if you’ve been there done that but I guess there’s also nothing like learning on your own. As far as tuning, I suggest buying an Autocal and then all you have to do is go for a half hour drive and hit some WOT runs while data logging. Then you download that data to a computer and email it to Blackbear. They build a tune based on what you want, your modifications, and the data and email it back to you. You transfer it from your computer to the Autocal, and then flash your BCM/TCM. No dyno needed. Any time you change things including power adders or wheel/ tire size you can get a free retune for as long as you own the vehicle. Your original tune files are also saved although at a certain point they’re worthless, like when you change cams or add a blower or whatever. You can find used Autocal for around $150 here in the classifieds or over at performancetrucks.net and then you just pay for the VIN license/ tune. Each Autocal can be used for about 100 GM vehicles I believe, just have to pay for each tune once per VIN. I have had both my vehicles retuned multiple times.
