VENTING!!! Rip-off Labor rates!

[Colorado Yeti]

I have a 1999 Chevy Tahoe 2-door that is my pride and joy. I experienced the dreaded gas gauge issue and took it into a supposedly local reputable shop. I had already replaced the air stepper (e.g. gas gauge) in the instrument cluster. They ran some diagnostics and told me the sender unit in the tank was bad. I replaced it approximately 2 years ago and it still had a lifetime warranty. I provided them with my own part and they charged my > $980 to drop the tank and R&R the sender unit.

When I spoke to the manager, I told him I could do this exact same job in my garage myself in about 3-4 hours. Not a fun job, but not that bad, as I did it approximately 3 years ago. He agreed and told me his shop rates are $230 / hr for labor. I'm too busy at my work and didn't have a lot of time to take on this project.

I know that we are known for smoking a lot of weed in Colorado but does anyone else out there think this is absolutely ridiculous? Especially considering that I supplied my own part for the job??? No wonder automotive shops are right up there with insurance companies for being seen as complete crooks. How much does the poor mechanic get of that $230 / hr rate? Maybe $35 / hr? I hope & pray that more shops like this go bankrupt. Next time I will listen to my instincts and do the damn job myself. I'll do a better job than those jokers anyway.

 

[OR VietVet]

I have a 1999 Chevy Tahoe 2-door that is my pride and joy. I experienced the dreaded gas gauge issue and took it into a supposedly local reputable shop. I had already replaced the air stepper (e.g. gas gauge) in the instrument cluster. They ran some diagnostics and told me the sender unit in the tank was bad. I replaced it approximately 2 years ago and it still had a lifetime warranty. I provided them with my own part and they charged my > $980 to drop the tank and R&R the sender unit.

When I spoke to the manager, I told him I could do this exact same job in my garage myself in about 3-4 hours. Not a fun job, but not that bad, as I did it approximately 3 years ago. He agreed and told me his shop rates are $230 / hr for labor. I'm too busy at my work and didn't have a lot of time to take on this project.

I know that we are known for smoking a lot of weed in Colorado but does anyone else out there think this is absolutely ridiculous? Especially considering that I supplied my own part for the job??? No wonder automotive shops are right up there with insurance companies for being seen as complete crooks. How much does the poor mechanic get of that $230 / hr rate? Maybe $35 / hr? I hope & pray that more shops like this go bankrupt. Next time I will listen to my instincts and do the damn job myself. I'll do a better job than those jokers anyway.

1. Did you ask for and get a quote for the labor before job and when you handed them the parts you supplied? If not, why not?
2. Some shops charge a higher labor rate when customer supplies parts. They should be willing to supply their shop labor rate when anyone asks and then if customer supplies parts, what is the rate?
Granted, the labor rate is high, highest I have seen around here is $170 an hour, but as I read the story, I see where you should have asked and then argued ahead of time.

 

[OR VietVet]

The other thing to bear in mind is the diagnostic time that is part of that $980, or was there a separate diag time charge that is not part of the $980?

 

[GTRhino24]

I manage a collision repair shop. We use lots of sublet vendors. They have separate rates when we supply the parts so I typically let them purchase as it works out better in the long run. I will say that my shops labor rates have skyrocketed in the past 1.5 years due to having to pay higher flat rate to retain talent. Lots of competition came to town so where 20/hr was good a couple of years ago has now gone as high as 28-35/hr of a skilled tech.

 

[OR VietVet]

I manage a collision repair shop. We use lots of sublet vendors. They have separate rates when we supply the parts so I typically let them purchase as it works out better in the long run. I will say that my shops labor rates have skyrocketed in the past 1.5 years due to having to pay higher flat rate to retain talent. Lots of competition came to town so where 20/hr was good a couple of years ago has now gone as high as 28-35/hr of a skilled tech.

Yes, there is a large shortage of QUALIFIED techs and they command higher pay and all the incentives to work at a shop and the shop has to up their rates to cover that. The better techs are either getting out of the trade or are retiring and there isn't a qualified tech to plug in to that position.

I want to go back to work and manage shops. I have put feelers out. My experience is right up there with the best of them but my age, 70, is a minus sometimes. I interviewed at a shop yesterday and there best drivability tech is 70 and is wanting to retire soon. I am leery of taking an offer from them and then starting there with a top tech leaving the shop. I will worry about that if they make an offer. I know the interview went well. It lasted almost 2 hours and I talked to owner and his other service writer.

At 70 years old and my experience, if I wanted to tech, I could get hired tomorrow. I would just have to make sure the office and shop have wheelchair access.

 

[GTRhino24]

Yes, there is a large shortage of QUALIFIED techs and they command higher pay and all the incentives to work at a shop and the shop has to up their rates to cover that. The better techs are either getting out of the trade or are retiring and there isn't a qualified tech to plug in to that position.

I want to go back to work and manage shops. I have put feelers out. My experience is right up there with the best of them but my age, 70, is a minus sometimes. I interviewed at a shop yesterday and there best drivability tech is 70 and is wanting to retire soon. I am leery of taking an offer from them and then starting there with a top tech leaving the shop. I will worry about that if they make an offer. I know the interview went well. It lasted almost 2 hours and I talked to owner and his other service writer.

At 70 years old and my experience, if I wanted to tech, I could get hired tomorrow. I would just have to make sure the office and shop have wheelchair access.

Yes. It’s because skilled trades were considered inferior to college diplomas for most of my life. If I had it to do over again, I would have started at my dads shop back in the 90’s and be retiring soon. My shop has 4 techs. 2 are 22 years old and went to trade schools, 1 is 32 and comes from good roots, and the other is 58 getting ready to hang up the tools. The middle guy makes more than I do. I waited 6 months to hire the 32yr old because he was so good and I had to keep upping my offer.

 

[OR VietVet]

Yes. It’s because skilled trades were considered inferior to college diplomas for most of my life. If I had it to do over again, I would have started at my dads shop back in the 90’s and be retiring soon. My shop has 4 techs. 2 are 22 years old and went to trade schools, 1 is 32 and comes from good roots, and the other is 58 getting ready to hang up the tools. The middle guy makes more than I do. I waited 6 months to hire the 32yr old because he was so good and I had to keep upping my offer.

Yes, I did forget to mention that. They don't teach trades anymore in the schools, better known as Vocational School. Like you said, the scholars-or so they say they are, say college is more important, for indoctrination, don't cha know.... Most fathers/mothers don't show their kids how to do simple maintenance on their cars/trucks, change a tire, check and add fluids, drive a stick shift....etc. because the kids are too busy with computer games. I know exactly why, and 90% of you here do as well, this is all happening that way but I will get spanked if I speak freely. The automotive tech is a dying breed. The ones that can think problems thru and test correctly.

 

[Eman85]

Did they fix your truck? Since you provided the part I'm sure you don't have any guarantee. I didn't install customers parts for many reasons.

 

[TollKeeper]

Welcome to the age of people going to college to get degrees in worthless areas.. I am not saying that to be condescending, but as a truth.

At the company I work at, we pay our mechanics GOOD, and we still have a hard time retaining mechanics... Either the work ethic sucks, or they are wrapped up in drugs/alcohol.. or have baby momma problems... Worst case scenario (we just lost a mechanic on this), ALL THREE!

And those that do go to school for blue collar jobs, specifically mechanics, they only go by what the computer tells them, and dont know how to diagnostics anymore.

God forbid any of these kids today get dirty.. Or even just their hands dirty.

 

[Colorado Yeti]

Update. Almost $1000 later, I received the truck back and the fuel gauge still does not work. It does the same thing as when I took it back in. The shop charged me $220/hr to not fix the original problem. Needless to say, I am absolutely furious and am kicking myself for not doing the job myself.

I am going in to the shop and am going to bring the original fuel sender unit / fuel pump with me. (Thank goodness I insisted that they give it back to me.) I am going back to the shop to politely address my issue with the owner. I am then going to perform a bench test on the unit with the owner present and prove to him that he replaced a part that was perfectly fine to begin with. I am then going to ask him to return my payment for faulty diagnostics and performing a job that did not fix the problem. I took it to this shop because they assured me that they were competent in being able to diagnose the problem even though it is an unusual vehicle. Clearly they were mistaken.

Shop owners do not like to use customer supplied parts primarily because they charge a significant markup on the part and make way more profit. Everything at a shop is designed to extract the maximum amount of money out of the little guy who needs his truck fixed. It is not just automotive repair shops, it is almost every other service based industry in our country where greed always comes out on top and there are crooks abound.

 

[OR VietVet]

"Shop owners do not like to use customer supplied parts primarily because they charge a significant markup on the part and make way more profit."

While some of this statement is true it is the primary reason. They want to use their parts for the profit and to avoid situations just like yours. Just like in your case, they mark up the labor to off set the loss of parts profit. It sucks that your problem is not solved after all that money paid but I would bet the presentation to the owner will get some results in your favor. Hell, I know you are mad and want your rig fixed but you are slinging rocks and arrows at this point.

If you had a business that your hard earned money was in, would you charge just enough to skim by or enough to make a nice profit and afford to pay your employees well? I have to say, part of your frustration is because you did not get pricing up front. I asked about that and asked about diagnostic charges and you did not respond.

 

[Mean_Green]

Yes. It’s because skilled trades were considered inferior to college diplomas for most of my life. If I had it to do over again, I would have started at my dads shop back in the 90’s and be retiring soon. My shop has 4 techs. 2 are 22 years old and went to trade schools, 1 is 32 and comes from good roots, and the other is 58 getting ready to hang up the tools.

I've been pushing that for years. I heard it everywhere I went recently to get estimates. 'We can't find qualified body people". They're all backed up weeks to months and some won't even quote non-insurance jobs. If I knew body work, I could have more work than I could handle. But I never learned it. Kids don't learn trades the old way any more. We have tech schools, but they're more white collar stuff or diesel over the road truck stuff. Not consumer level local shop stuff.

Labor rates are why I do so much of my own stuff. Cars, house, yard ... I just can't afford to hire anyone for most jobs as long as I can do it. I did most of my own metal roof, but there were sections I couldn't do. Labor was more than the materials for those sections.

I bought a small tractor and backhoe so I didn't have to hire someone every time I needed a hole or trench dug or an area tilled, plowed or mowed.

Everybody wants $250 per door to replace hinge pins. I can't see that, so I'll find a way to do it myself. Somehow. And hopefully not damage anything in the process.

 

[Mean_Green]

"Shop owners do not like to use customer supplied parts primarily because they charge a significant markup on the part and make way more profit."

While some of this statement is true it is the primary reason.

Is there a typo there?

I've been told by some shops that they don't want to use customer supplied parts because they can't be sure of the quality and don't want to get into a warranty situation having to redo something because of a poor quality part.

 

[Swagfu]

I had a shop a couple of years ago tell me they would put something on for me, but instead of the $120 an hour they normally charge it would be $180. All because they are missing out on the markup for parts and like Mean said, they don't know the quality of the part and they don't want to get into a warranty situation. Needless to say, I don't go there anymore. Trying a new place this week actually. Hopefully they do good work. It's weird to think that it is so hard to find a shop that does good work at a reasonable rate. I even tried a mobile guy who did good work at 100 an hour, but just getting him to come to the house was an ordeal. Used once and was happy, next time he kept putting excuses up as to why he couldn't make on the scheduled day...three times. Finally after being patient I told him I would find someone else.

 

[OR VietVet]

Is there a typo there?

I've been told by some shops that they don't want to use customer supplied parts because they can't be sure of the quality and don't want to get into a warranty situation having to redo something because of a poor quality part.

It's two fold. They want the parts mark up and they want to pick the part quality. People tend to think one part is the same as another part so cheaper is better. A lot of shops use the parts stores and get the same part that we consider cheap quality but the parts store gives them a warranty that they don't argue about and if a customer supplied part fails, the customer wants to blame the tech labor for it and not the part.

When I ran shops, I refused 100% to never install a customer supplied part and the shop owner backed me up. But that was also when there was not such a tight supply problem and there was no internet in the beginning and it was years down the road when places like RA showed up.

 

[iamdub]

Everybody wants $250 per door to replace hinge pins. I can't see that, so I'll find a way to do it myself. Somehow. And hopefully not damage anything in the process.

Just the bushings and pins? If they're anything like an S10 (and I'm sure they are), this is a one-hour task, including finding the stuff to make a press. The only specialty tool that's needed is a door spring compressor, available from Harbor Freight or Amazon for under $10 (like THIS). The press is a 1/4" bolt, nut, washers and a 1/4" drive socket that's larger than the bushing. Don't do that BS of trying to balance the door on a floor jack. If you don't have exposed rafters in your garage, park under a tree, roll the window down and use a ratchet strap to hang the door. You'll be able to adjust the height of the door one click at a time and won't have to have someone balance and hold it on a jack while you do the other work. Put a couple layers of painter's tape on the front edge of the door and rear edge of the fender so the paint isn't damaged if they bump.

I have pics of the "press" I made when I did my S10 hinges long ago. They're trapped in Photobucket, but I might be able to dig 'em out if you're interested.

 

[OR VietVet]

There is a local guy who rents out this cradle that he says fits most floor jacks.

Door Cradle - For Rent - tools - by owner - sale

Door Cradle - For Rent When you need to replace door hinge pins, you need this. I bought one and used it once. Not for sale, for rent. $50 or barter for up to a week. It fits standard floor jacks...

eugene.craigslist.org

I have done them in shops using the floor lift arms, like @iamdub was saying use the tree limbs. Before I got smart I did use just a floor jack with a helper to steady the door.

 

[Mean_Green]

Just the bushings and pins? If they're anything like an S10 (and I'm sure they are), this is a one-hour task, including finding the stuff to make a press. The only specialty tool that's needed is a door spring compressor, available from Harbor Freight or Amazon for under $10 (like THIS). The press is a 1/4" bolt, nut, washers and a 1/4" drive socket that's larger than the bushing.

Yeah, pins, bushing and roller pins. Parts plus an hour to pull the door, two hours to do the work and another hour to remount the door.

Another guy posted the same bolt/washer/nut thing:

I just checked my box of parts from replacing the bad ones so many times I left the stuff to do it together in a box lol. I did use the pin clip on the top one, forgot it comes in from the bottom so gravity might not hold that in. checked for play, both doors are still tight. so the ones I linked to are good. just missing the springs and stuff. others could be good too.

so pic of the spring toolwith part number on the top right.

the bolts from right to left, 3/8x2in 5/16x2 1/4x2. and then the shorter ones are 3/8x1.25in and 5/16x1. 25. a washer for each and a 3/8 and 5/16 nut. the 1/4in drive 9/16 socket is my spacer under the bushing so it doesn't bottom out before pressing all the way in.

if you've got a 1/4in cordless ratchet it makes it way faster and easier. but do able with a small ratchet too.

Don't do that BS of trying to balance the door on a floor jack. If you don't have exposed rafters in your garage, park under a tree, roll the window down and use a ratchet strap to hang the door. You'll be able to adjust the height of the door one click at a time and won't have to have someone balance and hold it on a jack while you do the other work. Put a couple layers of painter's tape on the front edge of the door and rear edge of the fender so the paint isn't damaged if they bump.

I plan on doing just that ... straps over rafters. I may use a jack also for fine tuning.

 

[Eman85]

Do some research on pins and bushings before you jump in. Somewhere I posted a thread, did 3 sets on my vehicles. The fancy set I put on my pickup is holding up well. The Dorman sets are junk and I was redoing 2 of the Dorman sets I had originally installed. Someone linked a company that makes quality bushings, I'd try them if I do another set as it's the bushings that fail not the pins.

 

[Eman85]

Back to the original topic.
If anyone thinks running an automotive shop is easy step up and give it a try, the business is unlike anything else. The overhead is absolutely ridiculous for a legitimate shop before you can open the doors and say you repair vehicles. The cost of access to information is unlike any other industry. The cost of tools and equipment has skyrocketed and the equipment for diagnosing comes with a subscription fee to keep it working. The insurance costs are high when you consider the cost of insuring that expensive equipment and the expensive vehicles being worked on and the liability if something goes wrong.
I'm not defending the shop in the OP's situation, just explaining a little of what it's like to own and operate a legitimate shop and the costs involved. As I stated before if it was my shop I would have avoided the whole situation because of the road it sounds like it's going down.