Transmission fluid exchange...an anecdotal experience

[abrasumente]

So there's a 4l60e in my 07 burb. The transmission fluid was black as night, but the trans itself still shifted fine- it just ran a little hot. Since I'm planning on swapping an 80e into it when I have the money, I figure I'd run the risk of doing a fluid exchange for science. I did a lot of poking around online before doing this and found a ton of conflicting evidence as to whether or not it's worth it. I've had several vehicles with some variant of the 60e that have died various deaths, so I know how temperamental they are. I assume at almost 300k, the trans has been replaced at least once.

I didn't bother buying the cooler adapter. I cut into the top line of the radiator cooler with some tubing cutters- when I put it back together I used a short length of trans cooler hose and used three worm clamps on each end set at roughly 120* relative to each other to provide enough pressure to keep the line from blowing off. As far as the exchange itself, I ran a clear tube into a home depot bucket and commenced to run TEN GALLONS of Dex 6 through the trans until it ran (somewhat) red. Yes, I spent almost 300 bucks on transmission fluid.

Thoughts:

1) There was no sediment or chunks in the bottom of the bucket or the trans pan when I dropped it to change the filter. I did the filter change first. Had I seen chunks in the pan, I would've stopped immediately.
2) The trans runs about 10-15 degrees cooler now. On an 85 degree day, the trans would run about 205. Now with the same ambient temp it sits around 190-195.
3) If it wasn't for the tach, I wouldn't know it was shifting.
4) My mpg went up to 16, mix of city/hwy. It was sitting around 14 previously. I beat on the motor like it owes me rent money and run 93 octane from Shell or BP only.

Opinion:

IF THERE'S NO SIGN OF MAJOR INTERNAL GUTS IN THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN, the trans still shifts OK, but your fluid is black, I'd change it.

 

[OR VietVet]

It sounds like it will be ok, at least for now. I have just one recommendation. I would swap out the worm gear clamps for band style clamps. Like the ones used for fuel injection lines. They clamp much better and spread the clamping force better. I would also use a flaring tool and flare the two tube ends just slightly, to allow for a bit better grip by the inside of the hose. Don't flare it like you are making a brake line, just a slight flare. I did that on a transmission line under my girl's 1990 K2500 truck. I was lazy and did not feel like running complete new metal line. It is dry dry dry at that connection.

 

[abrasumente]

@OR VietVet that's an excellent idea, thanks for the tip.

 

[swathdiver]

I'm planning on swapping an 80e into it

Why?

 

[abrasumente]

Why?

The interwebs tell me a 60e won't withstand the amount of abuse I plan to send to the back wheels. The plan is to build the toasted 5.3 I pulled out, then boost it. That's my only reason.

My only personal experience with this combo was in a grand prix gxp with a transverse 5.3 LS4 mated to a 65e transaxle, it was on its way out when I traded it in and the only thing I did to it was give it the beans

 

[swathdiver]

The plan is to build the toasted 5.3 I pulled out, then boost it.

I reckon then that you're going north of 600 horsepower? Then yeah, the time between overhaul for a built 65 is pretty short the more horsepower runs through them.

I remember that our built 200R4s would last 25-30K miles with 500-600 ftlbs of torque going through them and half that with 700.

 

[B-train]

So there's a 4l60e in my 07 burb. The transmission fluid was black as night, but the trans itself still shifted fine- it just ran a little hot. Since I'm planning on swapping an 80e into it when I have the money, I figure I'd run the risk of doing a fluid exchange for science. I did a lot of poking around online before doing this and found a ton of conflicting evidence as to whether or not it's worth it. I've had several vehicles with some variant of the 60e that have died various deaths, so I know how temperamental they are. I assume at almost 300k, the trans has been replaced at least once.

I didn't bother buying the cooler adapter. I cut into the top line of the radiator cooler with some tubing cutters- when I put it back together I used a short length of trans cooler hose and used three worm clamps on each end set at roughly 120* relative to each other to provide enough pressure to keep the line from blowing off. As far as the exchange itself, I ran a clear tube into a home depot bucket and commenced to run TEN GALLONS of Dex 6 through the trans until it ran (somewhat) red. Yes, I spent almost 300 bucks on transmission fluid.

Thoughts:

1) There was no sediment or chunks in the bottom of the bucket or the trans pan when I dropped it to change the filter. I did the filter change first. Had I seen chunks in the pan, I would've stopped immediately.
2) The trans runs about 10-15 degrees cooler now. On an 85 degree day, the trans would run about 205. Now with the same ambient temp it sits around 190-195.
3) If it wasn't for the tach, I wouldn't know it was shifting.
4) My mpg went up to 16, mix of city/hwy. It was sitting around 14 previously. I beat on the motor like it owes me rent money and run 93 octane from Shell or BP only.

Opinion:

IF THERE'S NO SIGN OF MAJOR INTERNAL GUTS IN THE BOTTOM OF THE PAN, the trans still shifts OK, but your fluid is black, I'd change it.

Sweet ass experiment! I love it and thank you for the honest feedback. How did you exchange the fluid with the cut hoses? Info on those deets would be interesting as well.

 

[NickTransmissions]

The interwebs tell me a 60e won't withstand the amount of abuse I plan to send to the back wheels. The plan is to build the toasted 5.3 I pulled out, then boost it. That's my only reason.

My only personal experience with this combo was in a grand prix gxp with a transverse 5.3 LS4 mated to a 65e transaxle, it was on its way out when I traded it in and the only thing I did to it was give it the beans

How much power will you be making? Asking as ive built 4L60e that live behind 650+ hp boosted/blown applications.

Here's one example build (next week's project). The video(s) should be on my channel by end of next weekend)

60 vs 80: The 80 will require a segment swap, rear cross member relocation, driveline cut and re-balance (and maybe other things). They also consume about 15% or so more horsepower compared to a 60 and weight more.

That said, the 80s can be bullet proof with minimal mods up to 600 horse (especially 1997-2000 units). Beyond 750, you'll want a super drum, billet input shaft, case saver, etc...

 

[j91z28d1]

it would have been very interesting if you could have sent a sample of that old fluid off for testing.

 

[abrasumente]

@j91z28d1 I still have the first gallon I changed out actually. I'll get Blackstone to send me a kit. Good lookin out on that.

@NickTransmissions I'm looking for around 600 at the crank. I don't have the wallet to take it any further than that, especially with wanting it dead reliable. Again, I was under the impression that the 60e is fabricated from toilet paper and Double Bubble but if it can be built to withstand that amount of power, it would for sure save me a lot of headache and fab work.

@B-train I hooked a 5' length of 3/8 clear tubing to the top line coming out of the radiator after I cut it. Secured with a few worm clamps and ran the tube into a bucket. I had my wife operate the ignition and let the transmission pump til I started seeing bubbles in the clear tubing, I'd have her shut it off at that point and pour roughly the same amount of new fluid back into the dipstick tube. Each time it pumped out roughly four quarts before I started seeing air. I think I ran seven gallons through it before I started seeing the fluid change color. It was NASTAY.

 

[abrasumente]

 

[donjetman]

My 6L80e holds 3 gals.

 

[NickTransmissions]

it would have been very interesting if you could have sent a sample of that old fluid off for testing.

The analysis will read/say something like "3-4 clutch pack is 90-95% wiped".

@abrasumente - the 4L60e is fabricated at the factory largely from TP with a bit of Brawny or Bounty thrown in on the late model units (GM listening to customer feedback, lol).

All kidding aside, check out the Supermatic 4L75e. Its a GM crate trans you can buy off the shelf that's rated to 650 hp/650 lbs torque and advertised as an alternative to the 4L80e.

The unit I'm putting together this coming week (in that pic above) will have a better, stronger Sonnax input drum, better 3-4 clutch pack, billet steel rotor and stronger output shaft than the '75E but otherwise will be very similar.

 

[j91z28d1]

@j91z28d1 I still have the first gallon I changed out actually. I'll get Blackstone to send me a kit. Good lookin out on that.

@NickTransmissions I'm looking for around 600 at the crank. I don't have the wallet to take it any further than that, especially with wanting it dead reliable. Again, I was under the impression that the 60e is fabricated from toilet paper and Double Bubble but if it can be built to withstand that amount of power, it would for sure save me a lot of headache and fab work.

@B-train I hooked a 5' length of 3/8 clear tubing to the top line coming out of the radiator after I cut it. Secured with a few worm clamps and ran the tube into a bucket. I had my wife operate the ignition and let the transmission pump til I started seeing bubbles in the clear tubing, I'd have her shut it off at that point and pour roughly the same amount of new fluid back into the dipstick tube. Each time it pumped out roughly four quarts before I started seeing air. I think I ran seven gallons through it before I started seeing the fluid change color. It was NASTAY.

interesting. I was picturing you cut the line and put a hose in one bucket and the other hose in the fresh bucket and let it suck the clean in.

there's a old tranny flush machine in the corner at at work. I read thru the manual once and that's how it works. goes inline and let's the tranny pump the old out and suck the new in.

I meant to use it.. but never got around to it and the 2 autos I have now all the fluid comes out with a pan drop. no converters. well I do have a 4l60 but I really need to sell that cause I don't have indoor place to store it.

I don't think anyone has ever actually used the thing on a piece of work equipment lol

 

[abrasumente]

interesting. I was picturing you cut the line and put a hose in one bucket and the other hose in the fresh bucket and let it suck the clean in.

there's a old tranny flush machine in the corner at at work. I read thru the manual once and that's how it works. goes inline and let's the tranny pump the old out and suck the new in.

I meant to use it.. but never got around to it and the 2 autos I have now all the fluid comes out with a pan drop. no converters. well I do have a 4l60 but I really need to sell that cause I don't have indoor place to store it.

I don't think anyone has ever actually used the thing on a piece of work equipment lol

@j91z28d1 That's not a bad idea either but I'd be busy having a heart attack worrying about pump cavitation. I was already trippin just touching the pan lol

@NickTransmissions good lookin out on that 75e. I'll pay that seven days a week for a quality unit if it means I don't have to monkey around with trying to adapt an 80e. Hopefully Blackstone doesn't tell me it's hanging on by a thread because it'll be a few months before I'll have the coin for all that.

 

[Charlie207]

Here's one example build (next week's project). The video(s) should be on my channel by end of next weekend)

Just subbed to your channel. (I used to love watching the AT teardowns on the Precision Transmission channel before they got a billion subs then went private $$$).

Do you do any work on the 6L80s?

 

[Fless]

Just subbed to your channel. (I used to love watching the AT teardowns on the Precision Transmission channel before they got a billion subs then went private $$$).

Do you do any work on the 6L80s?

If you're interested, Richard and Teresa are working out of a new shop. He's on light duty right now, I think, after shoulder replacement surgery, but he has a few videos up:

https://www.youtube.com/@richardteresacricheducatio3542/videos

 

[NickTransmissions]

Just subbed to your channel. (I used to love watching the AT teardowns on the Precision Transmission channel before they got a billion subs then went private $$$).

Do you do any work on the 6L80s?

Thank you, @Charlie207 !
Yep - getting ready to publish a 6L80E tear down and inspection video in about 30 minutes or so...going to start a separate thread w/the link and a whole bunch of 6L80e information, references etc...

 

[Airman68]

I dont want to start an agument because people seem to be sensitive to brand/type but what kind of fluid did you flush/fill it with? I know there are a lot out there and I'm assuming Dextron VI? The fluid is super expensive these days.

 

[OR VietVet]

I dont want to start an agument because people seem to be sensitive to brand/type but what kind of fluid did you flush/fill it with? I know there are a lot out there and I'm assuming Dextron VI? The fluid is super expensive these days.

Dexron 6 is the way to go. It mixes with the old as well.