Traction Devices / Snow Tires

[thegooch49]

I'm going to be driving over some snowy mountain passes next month with the family, and need some advice for snow driving. I have a 2012 Yukon Denali with 22" wheels. The manual says not to use chains on this vehicle, is this a confirmed truth? Will it truly cause damage if I put chains on this rig? What do you do when the passes say "traction devices are required"?

Secondly, if we end up buying true snow tires, it looks like Blizzaks or Michelin Latitude X-Ice XI2 are my two best options. I read that many here like the goodyear duratracks, but they aren't available in R22. Are there any options that I'm missing? I would ultimately like to put these on for the winter, then swap them out for my current all-season tires.

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[mals]

I can't speak to using chains or snow tires on a Yukon since I only purchased mine last summer.

As for snow tires in general, I can say they are worth the effort if you think you will find yourself in prolonged snowy conditions. We've been using them on our two Ford Focuses since moving to Massachusetts 10 years ago. I installed Blizzaks on both our cars the first winter and they held up great for 6 years. At that time I moved the best four to my car and put Michelin X-Ice on my wife's since they were in stock and on sale with a rebate. Last year I replaced the Blizzaks on my car with Yokohoma iceGuard tires. I have to say I've been happy with all three, but actually like the Yokohomas best. Amazing traction in the snow, and quiet predicable driving on dry pavement.

Also, you may want to consider not just swapping tires on and off your 22" wheels. I run my snows on a smaller set of dedicated wheels. If you looked into snows for 18" or 20" wheels it may open your options and ease of installation.

 

[thegooch49]

Thanks for the reply mals. I've been shopping around, and it seems that getting some new rims might be the way to go. 22" blizzaks would run me $1122 at America's Tire. It's the only snow rated 22" that I saw anywhere. I can buy some 18" rims at discount tire, and have any option of tires at that point. I'd lean to Goodyear Duratrac. So the new rims/tires would run me an extra $250 bucks, but it will easily pay for itself. If I go with the 22", I'll have to pay $70 each time I swap between my winter tires and the all-season. If they are on their own rims, there is no cost to swap them out.

It's a bit of a bummer, I was super stoked to have the ck375 on my 2012. It's turning into a bit of a curse though, since my options are so limited for snow tires. Does anyone have familiarity with any nice 18" rims from America's Tire, that are cheap and somewhat decent?

 

[David Paul]

Jeff, do you have a Costco near you? If so I would recommend you check Costco.com for the tires you like. Have them shipped to the store to be mounted on the 18" rims if you get them. IMHO, you can't beat what you get for the $15 per tire installation price.

 

[ISU-152]

Honestly I'd forget the winter tires and go with the bf Goodrich TKO. Drop the psi a couple pounds and come spring just pump them back up. Great all season tire that handles the snow just as good as snows.

And chains have been illegal since forever unless you're wayyyyyyyyyy out in the boonies

 

[mals]

I'd lean to Goodyear Duratrac.

I took a look at the Goodyear website, and unless I am missing something it looks like their Duratrac tire is an all-season tire that is rated for use in snow and off-road. If you are going through all this expense and trouble it seems like you would want to go with a dedicated snow tire. The material science that goes into modern stud-less snow tires is pretty amazing.

I don't have any experience with Goodyear's Ultra Grip Ice WRT, but if you are partial to Goodyear I would suggest you look into them. It looks like they have solid reviews on the Goodyear website.

For the manufacturers that I do have a history with I would go with Yokohoma IceGaurd first, then Michelin X-Ice second, and Bridgestone Blizzak third by default. All three have served me well, but I feel like the Yokohomas have the best handling and least amount road noise in dry weather.

 

[thegooch49]

Thanks for the replies guys. Costco has some cheap wheels that don't look too bad either. There are some 18" that would work well. Once that's decided, there are LOTS of 18" snow tires. Costco has a nice $70 rebate on Michelin X-Ice XI2. So tires and rims would probably be about the same as the deal at America's. I'll just have to see which wheels I can tolerate the most. As for chains being illegal, they are very much legal where I'm at, and are a required carry over some mountain passes during winter (dedicated snow tires would count as well). That's the main problem that I'm trying to solve.

 

[Rocket Man]

Honestly I'd forget the winter tires and go with the bf Goodrich TKO. Drop the psi a couple pounds and come spring just pump them back up. Great all season tire that handles the snow just as good as snows.

And chains have been illegal since forever unless you're wayyyyyyyyyy out in the boonies

Chains are illegal where? In Oregon they are actually required at times. And perfectly legal.

 

[adventurenali92]

Yeah chains are required up here where I live in the winter too. I'm supposed to carry them in the car with me during winter. Lol. I don't have any that fit my denali tires. The only way chains will damage your rig is if they are not installed properly and tightened down and they come loose while driving. If that happens it's eating up your wheel well every rotation and it could wrap around the axle. I see the new burbs and denalis that are riding on 22s up here with chains on, especially this last week with the storm we got that left about a foot and a half of snow. 4x4/AWDs were fine to not chain up But all 2WDs had to chain up for a couple days until roads got fully plowed. @thegooch49 Is your 2012 2WD? That would be the only reason you would need chains in snow.

 

[ISU-152]

Chains are illegal where? In Oregon they are actually required at times. And perfectly legal.

I checked around and the issues vary slightly from state to state and province to province. For me in southern ontario...(doesn't even mention chains I know...)
Ontario
In Ontario, studded tires are only permitted from Sept. 1 through May 31. In order to use studded tires, the driver must be a resident of Northern Ontario (north of Parry Sound and Nipissing Districts), own a business in Northern Ontario, or have road authority with jurisdiction and control of a highway in Northern Ontario. Non-Ontario residents may use studded tires if the vehicle is in Ontario for no more than 30 days.

From there, Ontario has a list of regulations regarding size and placement of the studs. Essentially, studded tires are OK in Northern Ontario. A $1,000 fine can be handed out for using studded tires in Southern Ontario.

 

[ISU-152]

Southern ontario has pretty good road clean up crews so I think it's frowned upon because of the chains/studs wrecking the pavement. I should have been more careful before saying illegal here, but it still might be.

 

[adventurenali92]

@ISU-152 , interesting tid bits. Chains are put to use here in socal where we get snow. But our pavement is made differently and studded tires wear it down a lot faster. So studded tires are what's illegal here. Haha.

 

[Rocket Man]

I checked around and the issues vary slightly from state to state and province to province. For me in southern ontario...(doesn't even mention chains I know...)
Ontario
In Ontario, studded tires are only permitted from Sept. 1 through May 31. In order to use studded tires, the driver must be a resident of Northern Ontario (north of Parry Sound and Nipissing Districts), own a business in Northern Ontario, or have road authority with jurisdiction and control of a highway in Northern Ontario. Non-Ontario residents may use studded tires if the vehicle is in Ontario for no more than 30 days.

From there, Ontario has a list of regulations regarding size and placement of the studs. Essentially, studded tires are OK in Northern Ontario. A $1,000 fine can be handed out for using studded tires in Southern Ontario.

You Canadians have strange laws,eh? Lol.

 

[ISU-152]

Well like I said I guess I wasn't %100 sure and most of southern ontario is pretty urban so the snow clean up is pretty quick. Me? I could care less anyways with mud tires

Bring on the snow and I can here the plow trucks now

 

[Rocko]

Informative explanation of minus-size tire and wheel for winter driving conditions:

Priorities for Sizing Winter Tires Are Different
Original Equipment tire and wheel sizing has evolved over the years to where yesterday's typical 13", 14" and 15" sizes have been replaced with today's 16", 17", 18" and larger sizes. For that matter, many current cars, vans and light trucks now feature wide, low profile tires mounted on large diameter wheels as standard equipment or factory options.

"...if you're likely to drive through deep snow this year, you'll want winter / snow tires and wheels in sizes that help put the laws of physics on your side."

Unfortunately wide, low profile tires have to "plow" a wide path through deep snow, where narrower tires have an easier time. So if you're likely to drive through deep snow this year, you'll want winter / snow tires and wheels in sizes that help put the laws of physics on your side.

Winter tire sizes should be based on one of the following:
Your Vehicle's Original Equipment Tire and Wheel Size

While not offering a dimensional advantage, choosing winter tires and wheels in the Original Equipment size to seasonally replace the vehicle's Summer or All-Season tires will offer more traction in cold temperatures, slush, snow and ice thanks to the winter tire's tread design and compound that remains pliable in below-freezing and sub-zero temperatures.

The Tire and Wheel Size From Your Vehicle's Base Model

This is often an easy way to select an appropriate narrow tire for your car, van or truck. For example, a 2012 Honda Accord EX Sedan would store its original 225/50R17-sized tires in favor of the 2012 Honda Accord SE Sedan's 215/60R16-sized winter tires on 16" wheels. While only a small dimensional difference, this combination will reduce your cost while increasing your vehicle's wintertime traction.

A Minus Size Tire and Wheel

Minus Sizing uses traditional Plus Sizing techniques in reverse. It combines taller profile tires with smaller diameter wheels. For example, the owner of a 2012 Volkswagen Jetta SEL would store the original 225/45HR17-sized tires in favor of a Minus One 205/55R16-size on 16" wheels (where the wheel diameter is 1" smaller and the tire's sidewalls are ½" taller) or Minus Two 195/65R15-size on 15" wheels (where the wheel diameter is 2" smaller and the tire's sidewalls are 1" taller).

Minus Sizing Example for Winter Tires
O.E. SIZE

MINUS ONE

MINUS TWO

• 17" x 7.5" WHEEL 225/45HR17
• 16" x 7.5" 205/55R16
• 15" x 6.5" WHEEL 195/65R15

 

[Ming15237]

As someone who sells tires I will tell you with no uncertainty that there is NO SUBSTITUTE for a modern technology snow tire such as the blizzak or Michelin x ice, or any of the other major manufacturers snow tires. The best all season tires don't even come close to their performance on snow much less ice!

 

[Rocket Man]

The only problem with a full on snow tire is you need a separate set of rims too, plus they wear hella fast since they're soft. All seasons are a compromise no doubt but there are reasons people compromise. In my part of the country it might not snow even once a winter, or it might snow 2 or 3 times. Most people go all season plus a set of chains just in case it does snow.

 

[Ming15237]

The only problem with a full on snow tire is you need a separate set of rims too, plus they wear hella fast since they're soft. All seasons are a compromise no doubt but there are reasons people compromise. In my part of the country it might not snow even once a winter, or it might snow 2 or 3 times. Most people go all season plus a set of chains just in case it does snow.

Yes it is advisable to get a second set of wheels. However, you can fit seriously inexpensive 16 or 17" wheels and tires to these vehicles with no issues. A simple call to any of the major tire and wheel players on the internet will garner you an idea of price, heck, most have a "build your own setup" option on their web pages. Yes soft compound dedicated snow tires do wear more quickly than all season tires, this is part of the reason they perform so well in the snow as the tread stays pliable, where the all season tread hardens with the cold temps. If the OP is going to be crossing mountains which have postings for "traction devices" he quite likely lives in an area where winter weather is the norm, not a rare event like yourself. I always tell people any snow tire is better than NO snow tire, buy what you can afford! If the OP can get past the aesthetics, he can put snow tires and wheels on his vehicle at a significantly lower price than he could install new tires which are 22" as he is currently running. Snow tires are not about looks, they are about performance.

 

[thegooch49]

I agree Nathan. I'm past the aesthetics, and am ready to get a wheel/tire package. Getting a tire/rim package is just $300 more than tires alone. But on their own rims, $0 to flip between the all-seasons. Seems like a slam-dunk, thanks for all the replies.

 

[thegooch49]

I bit the bullet, and bought some 17" snow rims and tires. I got the Michelin X-Ice Xi2. The rims should pay for themselves after 2 years. I'll post some pictures before/after so you can see what the swap from 22" to 17" looks like.