Spring too close to Frame?

[Doug118]

Mine's around 4"-4.25", so I'd have to drop it about 2" before it'd hit. Judging by my pic in post #31, 2" more drop would put the sway bar right around the top of the bolt head. With the suspension articulation and body movements from normal driving, it'd be sure to contact and rub at least the top of the bolt head. With 3" more drop than where I'm at currently, it'd likely pretty much rest against the bolt head and grind on it while driving.


How centered is your rear end? You may have to shift it a little to the right if it's still contacting, if that wouldn't be putting it too much off center or causing clearance issues elsewhere.

Wheels are even left to right but I may have to offset them, which I really don’t want to do. The frame is going in for surgery this weekend or next weekend so I’ll figure something out then

 

[iamdub]

Wheels are even left to right but I may have to offset them, which I really don’t want to do. The frame is going in for surgery this weekend or next weekend so I’ll figure something out then

I thought of something last night: What about a sway bar of similar (or bigger?) diameter from a narrower vehicle? Yeah, you'd spend a lot of time on your knees at the salvage yard, but I have a feeling something could be found. The general shape for a truck's rear sway bar is pretty common across all makes and models. The only question is how to connect it to the frame, but a simple cross member could be made from C-channel. I'm thinking a bar that has the curve in the center for the diff and the flat areas on either side for the axle mounts (common characteristics) but with an overall width that locates the rearward-pointing arms more inboard would work. It was just a fleeting thought and I'd have to look at the underside to see if this is even possible. The panhard bar itself may be a factor.

 

[Doug118]

I thought of something last night: What about a sway bar of similar (or bigger?) diameter from a narrower vehicle? Yeah, you'd spend a lot of time on your knees at the salvage yard, but I have a feeling something could be found. The general shape for a truck's rear sway bar is pretty common across all makes and models. The only question is how to connect it to the frame, but a simple cross member could be made from C-channel. I'm thinking a bar that has the curve in the center for the diff and the flat areas on either side for the axle mounts (common characteristics) but with an overall width that locates the rearward-pointing arms more inboard would work. It was just a fleeting thought and I'd have to look at the underside to see if this is even possible. The panhard bar itself may be a factor.

the biggest issue is the gap between pass side panhard bar mount and shock mount on the rear end. It’s very narrow and definitely wasn’t designed to have the sway bar sit in there

 

[iamdub]

the biggest issue is the gap between pass side panhard bar mount and shock mount on the rear end. It’s very narrow and definitely wasn’t designed to have the sway bar sit in there

I just put mine up and took another look. I see there's not much gap between them. The only reason the sway bar clears is because I'm "only" at a 4.x" drop and the shock mount is still below the height of the sway bar. If the axle was a couple of inches higher (more drop), all three components would be fighting for space. NO kind of end links, offset or not would fix that. Hell, it's essentially "threading the needle" as it is on mine.

I also see that a narrower bar would work only if the exhaust pipe and spare tire weren't there.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

@iamdub did you ever get your answer about 5305 springs and their drop? On my ssv it’s 4” and I’m running the spacer so they’re at 3”. I think they ride pretty soft and keep 5psi in my helper bags all the time. I had them at 18psi when loaded down for a family trip over Xmas

 

[Da90]

Let me start off by saying... I have no idea what I am talking about and throwing out ideas.

Just like the free travel mod. Cut off the pan hard bracket. Then weld it to clear the sway bar and shock bolt. Now my question is will the sway bar clear in the factory location without the DJM end links?

I am thinking cut off the pan hard bracket and move it over. Next question is will a Sphon bar be adjustable enough to accommodate the pan hard bracket moved towards the driver side? Would you need a complete custom pan hard bar measured to the length of the new mounting position?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[iamdub]

@iamdub did you ever get your answer about 5305 springs and their drop? On my ssv it’s 4” and I’m running the spacer so they’re at 3”. I think they ride pretty soft and keep 5psi in my helper bags all the time. I had them at 18psi when loaded down for a family trip over Xmas

I never did get a solid figure, but I did get a set of the 5305 springs and am really trying to make time to swap 'em in this weekend.

I know the PPV is dropped about 1.5" from a normal civilian Tahoe's height and the SSV seems to usually be stock height since they're intended for other applications, some being 4WD. You're saying the 5305s dropped yours 4" from where it was originally? Was yours originally lower than a civi model? I'm glad to hear they ride soft! Do you know what model of helper bags (or kit) you have for them? Those psi numbers are pretty much inline with what I was expecting to run unloaded and loaded.

 

[iamdub]

Let me start off by saying... I have no idea what I am talking about and throwing out ideas.

Just like the free travel mod. Cut off the pan hard bracket. Then weld it to clear the sway bar and shock bolt. Now my question is will the sway bar clear in the factory location without the DJM end links?

I am thinking cut off the pan hard bracket and move it over. Next question is will a Sphon bar be adjustable enough to accommodate the pan hard bracket moved towards the driver side? Would you need a complete custom pan hard bar measured to the length of the new mounting position?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You may be onto something here. If @Doug118 has the ability to C-notch his frame, then he has the ability to cut and weld. Without actually looking at it, I'd guess the Spohn panhard could be shortened at least 1.5" if you were to remove the jamb nuts and thread the two halves all the way to the center. Or, if you need to maintain some shortening adjustability, cut the threaded tube adapter off of one half, chop ~2" off of the tube and weld the adapter back in. You could shorten the panhard bar, cut off the frame side panhard mount, set the vehicle up at ride height with the axle centered, bolt the mount to the shortened panhard and see where it falls out in relation to the sway bar and how it could be reattached. This MAY allow straight end links. They'll still have to be much shorter than stock, but this is easier to achieve than an offset link. For the engineers reading this: Yes, changing the mounting point and length of the panhard would alter the arc of it's swing, and could induce body sway much like how poorly-designed front suspension components induce bumpsteer. I don't see how it would be a problem here. It's the rear and you're not articulating your suspension much at all with a 7" drop.

Another idea: Again, I'm not looking at it at the moment, but instead of cutting the panhard mount completely off, it may could be pie cut and bent inboard that ~1.5" and rewelded. This would be really easy since it's just a few slices with a cut-off disc, a few whacks with a hammer and a couple of welds. It'd move the mounting location to the left as well as upward, flattening the panhard bar's angle. It'd a very small amount upward, but still a positive gain. Cutting the mount completely off from it's original location would let you relocate it much higher so that the bar is as flat as possible at the lowered height.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

The air bag kit I’m running is airlift 60742.
I wish that Tony guy would just list his knowledge in a sticky instead of always wanting people to text him. He rarely actually texts back.
https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/how-to-install-helper-bags-in-springs-pics-inside.56921/

 

[Doug118]

You may be onto something here. If @Doug118 has the ability to C-notch his frame, then he has the ability to cut and weld. Without actually looking at it, I'd guess the Spohn panhard could be shortened at least 1.5" if you were to remove the jamb nuts and thread the two halves all the way to the center. Or, if you need to maintain some shortening adjustability, cut the threaded tube adapter off of one half, chop ~2" off of the tube and weld the adapter back in. You could shorten the panhard bar, cut off the frame side panhard mount, set the vehicle up at ride height with the axle centered, bolt the mount to the shortened panhard and see where it falls out in relation to the sway bar and how it could be reattached. This MAY allow straight end links. They'll still have to be much shorter than stock, but this is easier to achieve than an offset link. For the engineers reading this: Yes, changing the mounting point and length of the panhard would alter the arc of it's swing, and could induce body sway much like how poorly-designed front suspension components induce bumpsteer. I don't see how it would be a problem here. It's the rear and you're not articulating your suspension much at all with a 7" drop.

Another idea: Again, I'm not looking at it at the moment, but instead of cutting the panhard mount completely off, it may could be pie cut and bent inboard that ~1.5" and rewelded. This would be really easy since it's just a few slices with a cut-off disc, a few whacks with a hammer and a couple of welds. It'd move the mounting location to the left as well as upward, flattening the panhard bar's angle. It'd a very small amount upward, but still a positive gain. Cutting the mount completely off from it's original location would let you relocate it much higher so that the bar is as flat as possible at the lowered height.

I really don’t want to change the suspension geometry. I was looking at where the panhard bar mounts to the frame and I’m going to see if it can be cut down to make it as close to the actual panhard bar bushing as possible then box it back in. That way the swaybar can be bought more to the left

The air bag kit I’m running is airlift 60742.
I wish that Tony guy would just list his knowledge in a sticky instead of always wanting people to text him. He rarely actually texts back.
https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/how-to-install-helper-bags-in-springs-pics-inside.56921/

I had helper bags in my truck but didn’t like the way they rode

 

[Doug118]

I’ve also spoken to several people and they said running a drop shock and shock extenders is a bad idea and I should just be running a shorter shock without the extenders. Problem with that is, I welded the extenders to my axle so I may try running stock length shocks once the frame is notched

 

[kbuskill]

I’ve also spoken to several people and they said running a drop shock and shock extenders is a bad idea and I should just be running a shorter shock without the extenders. Problem with that is, I welded the extenders to my axle so I may try running stock length shocks once the frame is notched

I don't know why running a drop shock with the extenders would be a bad idea.

I am running the extenders and an air ride shock that is the same length as the Belltech SP drop shocks and I don't have any problems with it.

I wish @iamdub would get off his lazy duff and hook his ALC to his airlift bags and see how/if it works the way he is wanting it to.

If it works properly and doesn't blow the bags then I may follow suite and then install the Rancho 9 way adjustable shocks on the rear to get rid of some of the "hoopty bounce" since the shocks I have on there now don't seem to be heavy duty enough or valved properly for the weight of the Burb.

I have already found a set of the Rancho shocks that are the same length as the drop shocks and should be valved properly for the weight, plus they are 9 way adjustable so I should be able to dial it in the way I want it.

Hurry up Dub!

 

[iamdub]

The air bag kit I’m running is airlift 60742.
I wish that Tony guy would just list his knowledge in a sticky instead of always wanting people to text him. He rarely actually texts back.
https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/how-to-install-helper-bags-in-springs-pics-inside.56921/

THANK YOU! As much as I've Googled for info and pics, this is exactly the info I've been looking for. This subject has been covered and recovered so many times on multiple forums by so many OPINIONS and contradicting info that you can't find the cold hard facts. I have two sets of Air Lift bags and wasn't sure which ones I should use on the 5305s. I was gonna guess the taller ones, but this corrected me. Glad I won't have to do the work twice!

 

[iamdub]

I’ve also spoken to several people and they said running a drop shock and shock extenders is a bad idea and I should just be running a shorter shock without the extenders. Problem with that is, I welded the extenders to my axle so I may try running stock length shocks once the frame is notched

I don't see how it could be a bad idea. The purpose of both drop shocks and extenders is simply for range of travel. The amount of drop will determine if you need one or the other or both. For a 7" drop with no extenders, you'd need a ridiculously short shock that may not even exist, at least not in a quality truck shock. Running an extender would be like having a 5" drop, and there are plenty of known good shorter shocks to support that. I don't think a stock-length shock would work for a 7" drop. It'd be bottomed out or nearly bottomed out. With extenders, the stock shock would "see" the equivalent of a 5" drop and that's pretty much at the max of it's travel.

 

[iamdub]

I wish @iamdub would get off his lazy duff and hook his ALC to his airlift bags and see how/if it works the way he is wanting it to.


...Hurry up Dub!

Huh? What're you talking about? Hooking the ALC up to the Air Lift bags? Sounds like some kind of hack!

 

[kbuskill]

Huh? What're you talking about? Hooking the ALC up to the Air Lift bags? Sounds like some kind of hack!

Get to hacking... lol

 

[Doug118]

A shock isn’t meant to be fully expended and with the drop shock and extenders, the shock is close to full extension. There are plenty of shorter shock options to use without the extenders

 

[iamdub]

A shock isn’t meant to be fully expended and with the drop shock and extenders, the shock is close to full extension. There are plenty of shorter shock options to use without the extenders

Correct. It depends on how short the drop shock is. If your drop shocks are nearly stretched out with extenders, then you have really short shocks and the extenders aren't needed. That's gotta be a really small shock to have plenty of compression but nearly extended with a 7" drop. With as many different lengths of shocks that are available, it's something that can't be generalized by saying "running a drop shock with extenders is a bad idea". This leads to misinformation that will get around to those that don't know any better and they could end up with a rough ride and blown shocks from bottoming out. I aimed to maintain all stock geometry and travel and got the longest of the shorter shocks that would fit, accounting for the 2" gain with the extenders. This ended up being the Belltech 2412FF instead of the ubiquitous 2410FF. At my lowered ride height, I have about 4" of upward and downward travel with these.

BTW, I'm not critiquing your drop or methods. I'm just trying to figure out what all you have in place for such a large static drop. How all of that is crammed up in there is a bit fascinating to me.

 

[kbuskill]

Correct. It depends on how short the drop shock is. If your drop shocks are nearly stretched out with extenders, then you have really short shocks and the extenders aren't needed. That's gotta be a really small shock to have plenty of compression but nearly extended with a 7" drop. With as many different lengths of shocks that are available, it's something that can't be generalized by saying "running a drop shock with extenders is a bad idea". This leads to misinformation that will get around to those that don't know any better and they could end up with a rough ride and blown shocks from bottoming out. I aimed to maintain all stock geometry and travel and got the longest of the shorter shocks that would fit, accounting for the 2" gain with the extenders. This ended up being the Belltech 2412FF instead of the ubiquitous 2410FF. At my lowered ride height, I have about 4" of upward and downward travel with these.

BTW, I'm not critiquing your drop or methods. I'm just trying to figure out what all you have in place for such a large static drop. How all of that is crammed up in there is a bit fascinating to me.

1 inch of his drop is from shorter tires. The 255/50/20 tires he is running are 2" shorter than the factory 275/55/20 tires it came with.

 

[iamdub]

1 inch of his drop is from shorter tires. The 255/50/20 tires he is running are 2" shorter than the factory 275/55/20 tires it came with.

:facepalm:

That doesn't count! I've been duped!