P0301

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tiktok4321

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Hi Interworld.

Pulled a P0301 today. Replaced spark plug in cyl 1, no change. Swapped wire from Cyl 3 with 1 and no change (May have damaged wire). Swapped coil pack with Cyl 3 and added P0300, but NOT P0303.

I figured if it were a coil issue, I'd get a P0351 instead of P0301.

Thoughts?
 

j91z28d1

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I can't give you much info beside just saying mine had one coil pack replaced when I bought it so they do go out. I don't even know if it's a standard ls coil pack thou. if so, they should be pretty cheap to find used.
 
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tiktok4321

tiktok4321

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Interestingly, the bad coil was different than the rest. This one I did myself for about 1/5 of shop cost. It also seemed to reduce the lurching I've been experiencing when it switches from ICE to Auto Stop.
 

j91z28d1

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Interestingly, the bad coil was different than the rest. This one I did myself for about 1/5 of shop cost. It also seemed to reduce the lurching I've been experiencing when it switches from ICE to Auto Stop.

did it fix the miss?

I can see anything that makes the engine fire off quicker and have more power at idle speed helping with the electric to gas cranking.
the lurching is most likely the battery. it's a bit of a hard pill to swallow, but if you're on the other board there's a thread about how to add the "pids" to the torque pro app to log the individual cell voltages while it's doing it and you can get an idea if the battery is able to hold up the voltage while supplying enough current to move the truck and start the engine at the same time. all while also having enough power to keep transmission aux pump running to keep enough line pressure to keep the transmission clutch pack engaged. there's a fluid circuit, which is basically just a ball bearing in a passageway but it is how it goes from the electric pump supplying tranny fluid to the engine driven pump supplying it. my thoughts is if that transition isn't happening quickly and crisp, you get all the bucking hiccups. these trucks ask a lot from its batteries, hybrid and 12v and seems to kill the hybrid much earlier than the prius does and since a 12v lead acid is better matched to a engine being cranked by a starter than how these trucks use them, I think a deep cycle battery would be better for this application

mine was pretty bad, I posted some screen caps from my scanner of how bad in that thread. once I replaced the hybrid battery it's like a brand new truck. fixed every drivability issue it had. it's just a lot of money to spend on a old truck that most people had long enough to be ready for a new one at this point.
 
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tiktok4321

tiktok4321

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did it fix the miss?

I can see anything that makes the engine fire off quicker and have more power at idle speed helping with the electric to gas cranking.
the lurching is most likely the battery. it's a bit of a hard pill to swallow, but if you're on the other board there's a thread about how to add the "pids" to the torque pro app to log the individual cell voltages while it's doing it and you can get an idea if the battery is able to hold up the voltage while supplying enough current to move the truck and start the engine at the same time. all while also having enough power to keep transmission aux pump running to keep enough line pressure to keep the transmission clutch pack engaged. there's a fluid circuit, which is basically just a ball bearing in a passageway but it is how it goes from the electric pump supplying tranny fluid to the engine driven pump supplying it. my thoughts is if that transition isn't happening quickly and crisp, you get all the bucking hiccups. these trucks ask a lot from its batteries, hybrid and 12v and seems to kill the hybrid much earlier than the prius does and since a 12v lead acid is better matched to a engine being cranked by a starter than how these trucks use them, I think a deep cycle battery would be better for this application

mine was pretty bad, I posted some screen caps from my scanner of how bad in that thread. once I replaced the hybrid battery it's like a brand new truck. fixed every drivability issue it had. it's just a lot of money to spend on a old truck that most people had long enough to be ready for a new one at this point.
It fixed the miss immediately. The lurch slowly returned. Sidenote: I've been having issues with my cruise control for years. Never thought much of it. It worked or it didn't. Whatever. Eventually, I took my '** to my local hybrid "expert" and he swapped out the brake switch sensor under the dash. I don't know which one it was. He said that the brakes interact with various aspects of the various computers. After he fixed that switch, it may have only slightly lurched once since. He also ran a check on the Hybrid battery and gave it a clean bill of health (which I find a little odd considering it's a reman Green Bean battery from like 5 years ago). I also have a slightly underrated 12v installed at the moment. I suspect changing that out will finish solving my issues.

Oh - except now I have a broken engine mount. Sigh.
 

j91z28d1

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I seem to remember reading some where that it keeps a fault history saved of why cruise fails, I believe he might be right about braking is very complicated in these trucks. one of the calibration tests I've seen seems to adjust the brake pressure to the wheels vs peddle movement so regen works right. something about it recording how far the peddle moves to make 500psi of brake pressure. I didn't run the cal but will if I ever do brakes and rotors. never seen that before on any car. kinda wild, but also I gotta remember these trucks are basically 2005-2007 technology levels while in development. by now hybrid stuff has come a long way in development by 2022. so what seems weird now was all they could come up with back then.


just looking for fault codes for the battery and checking the voltages at rest with a scanner is a pretty incomplete way to test the hybrid battery. you really need to see off the cell voltage while it's trying to crank the engine. which is pretty easy with the right equipment but not something most think to do, because of how oddball these trucks are. I don't believe that's a common issue with a prius type hybrid they probably have more experience with.

I've got a log of mine on the old battery, where you log battery voltages and the amp being pulled from it. so like let the truck go into auto stop, hit log. turn the ac and stuff on and just watch the voltage, all should stay within say half a volt for a decent battery, 1.5 before you see check engine light. mine was more like 2 volts, so I knew it was done. but then when the engine started it caught for a split second 75amps draw, lowest cell high 9v highest cell held 14v. 16ish is normal. so instantly you know the hybrid badly is dead but also less than 3 sec so no check engine light and that's just parked, now if it's trying to move the truck which I've seen pull 50 amps doing and add cranking. the whole system can't keep up. which leads to that aux tranny pump, it doesn't exactly run off hybrid, it runs off the 12v, but the 12v system is held up around 14v by the inverter running off the hybrid battery. well the hybrid system just tanked for a sec while cranking so that aux pump is running fully on the 12v and it's probably going to drop to 10v or so under that load. I'll attach the screen cap of the log, you can see with a 2amp load which is normal auto stop without the ac on to ac on and engine cranking. the min hybrid cell voltage to the max cell voltage difference is just crazy high. but it doesn't show up unless you're specifically looking for it

so yeah, the whole system is tied together, during the production run they made a change to the 12v used, to one with a higher reserve rating. Lotta 12v load in these trucks, the aux tranny pump has a 60amp fuse on it, gm usual fuses pretty high, so while I haven't found a place to stick an amp clamp on it and command it to 100% duty cycle, my guess would be 30amp draw with a 45amp spike if needed. still enough to pull a charged 12v down into the 10v's. I feel like if it gets bad enough the line pressure in the tranny can't keep the clutches from slipping while it's lurching and bucking, not only is it annoying, you're causing extra wear on a clutch packs in a tranny that's going to be difficult to find a repair shop to touch. I'd rather avoid all that and not just get used to the bucking and stuff.


with the cooler weather coming, you might find it running better. mine definitely did. the difference between running max front and rear ac on 100deg day vs a cool morning with the windows down was night and day.

long windy post to just say you should probably not listen to the mechanics battery test and pick up a 20$ scanner and the app, and keep an eye on how your battery is aging yourself. you'll most likely do much better than them and save any surprises. I swear mine went from yeah, I'm buying this truck knowing it will need a battery but being surprised how good it was still working to 6 months later getting lurching and bucking and bad signs the battery was toast.


you did remind me I need to check the engine mounts. I had to replace the ones in my c6 about 100k, wouldn't surprise me if these are bad too haha. ugh. all that jerking and lurching is probably ******* them too.
 

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BG1988

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It fixed the miss immediately. The lurch slowly returned. Sidenote: I've been having issues with my cruise control for years. Never thought much of it. It worked or it didn't. Whatever. Eventually, I took my '** to my local hybrid "expert" and he swapped out the brake switch sensor under the dash. I don't know which one it was. He said that the brakes interact with various aspects of the various computers. After he fixed that switch, it may have only slightly lurched once since. He also ran a check on the Hybrid battery and gave it a clean bill of health (which I find a little odd considering it's a reman Green Bean battery from like 5 years ago). I also have a slightly underrated 12v installed at the moment. I suspect changing that out will finish solving my issues.

Oh - except now I have a broken engine mount. Sigh.
the hummer motor mounts are on sale

swap the o2 sensors while you're add it ... my MPG is increasing... since i had replaced them average is 23.5mpg according to the computer.... the number is slowly going up since EVT gear is working correct now at 40mph in drive gear (40mph at 1,000 rpm @ 35-48 instant mpg v8 mode..)

when you mean "lurching" it feels like a pause and go movement type thing?
 

BG1988

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I seem to remember reading some where that it keeps a fault history saved of why cruise fails, I believe he might be right about braking is very complicated in these trucks. one of the calibration tests I've seen seems to adjust the brake pressure to the wheels vs peddle movement so regen works right. something about it recording how far the peddle moves to make 500psi of brake pressure. I didn't run the cal but will if I ever do brakes and rotors. never seen that before on any car. kinda wild, but also I gotta remember these trucks are basically 2005-2007 technology levels while in development. by now hybrid stuff has come a long way in development by 2022. so what seems weird now was all they could come up with back then.


just looking for fault codes for the battery and checking the voltages at rest with a scanner is a pretty incomplete way to test the hybrid battery. you really need to see off the cell voltage while it's trying to crank the engine. which is pretty easy with the right equipment but not something most think to do, because of how oddball these trucks are. I don't believe that's a common issue with a prius type hybrid they probably have more experience with.

I've got a log of mine on the old battery, where you log battery voltages and the amp being pulled from it. so like let the truck go into auto stop, hit log. turn the ac and stuff on and just watch the voltage, all should stay within say half a volt for a decent battery, 1.5 before you see check engine light. mine was more like 2 volts, so I knew it was done. but then when the engine started it caught for a split second 75amps draw, lowest cell high 9v highest cell held 14v. 16ish is normal. so instantly you know the hybrid badly is dead but also less than 3 sec so no check engine light and that's just parked, now if it's trying to move the truck which I've seen pull 50 amps doing and add cranking. the whole system can't keep up. which leads to that aux tranny pump, it doesn't exactly run off hybrid, it runs off the 12v, but the 12v system is held up around 14v by the inverter running off the hybrid battery. well the hybrid system just tanked for a sec while cranking so that aux pump is running fully on the 12v and it's probably going to drop to 10v or so under that load. I'll attach the screen cap of the log, you can see with a 2amp load which is normal auto stop without the ac on to ac on and engine cranking. the min hybrid cell voltage to the max cell voltage difference is just crazy high. but it doesn't show up unless you're specifically looking for it

so yeah, the whole system is tied together, during the production run they made a change to the 12v used, to one with a higher reserve rating. Lotta 12v load in these trucks, the aux tranny pump has a 60amp fuse on it, gm usual fuses pretty high, so while I haven't found a place to stick an amp clamp on it and command it to 100% duty cycle, my guess would be 30amp draw with a 45amp spike if needed. still enough to pull a charged 12v down into the 10v's. I feel like if it gets bad enough the line pressure in the tranny can't keep the clutches from slipping while it's lurching and bucking, not only is it annoying, you're causing extra wear on a clutch packs in a tranny that's going to be difficult to find a repair shop to touch. I'd rather avoid all that and not just get used to the bucking and stuff.

after replacement of the o2 sensor my truck is starting smoother on resume, then before replacement, but that is just Anecdotal evidence i have not tested it with the A/C on though.. I have a pretty good feeling adding a capacitor would solve the issue as many claim there is a shortage of power on the 12v it self

i did notice with a muti meter the power drops into the 10s sometimes on a resume this could be why the engine stalls out when resuming with the A/C on (often the engine will reving into 2,000 rpm after the A/C has been on for a while (engine running) when starting to move from a stop light both in drive and M1-4) btw the suv doesn't take off or peel out it just feels like it has "no power to go" like if the transmission was slipping obviously it's not the transmission "slipping" other wise it would do it all the time without the A/C on...
These AUX pumps cost 500$ now i was able to get it before the price doubled paid 240(+core) for mine
the fluid is clean btw so it's not damaging the clutch if there is no pressure nothing is being applied i got a brand new AUX pump btw i did keep my old one as well was not even worth it to send it back( i had to replace the seal anyways as it was leaking slowly )



the target is the ignition system and emissions system to look at

i.e spark plugs, igntion coils, o2 sensor(s) Map sensor (it has two of them) MAF, IAT etc... even a vacuum leak...
 
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j91z28d1

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o2 sensors are never a bad thing to do, they are considered a wear item like spark plugs. 80k miles or so? I'd suggest oem sensors, I've personally had bad luck with Bosch

but in my experience, unless you see the short term or long term fuel trims adjusting a lot, like 10% of or more, I've personally seen no difference.

the ac in these trucks pull a lot of power. like mine will auto stop for 10mins with the ac on max with the windows down getting a log and that's only after charging it to 70% SOC where it normally only runs 60ish daily driving, but ac off it will auto stop for a good 30mins stuck in crazy long drive thru.

if you haven't done it, I still say you really should just spend the 20$ so you can watch what your battery is doing while daily driving. besides just being interesting you will get a chance to see what it's doing if the truck is having any issues. even with a new battery I load up the app and watch what it's doing. Temps and stuff are just interesting to me and how that relates to how it's running.

like before the cell voltages would do huge swings when it cranked the engine, now you can see 130 plus amp spikes being used and the cell voltage doesn't even budge. you can also see the 12v voltage at different modules if you want, like the ecm itself. I'd like to find the pid for the aux pump module itself, I can see % but haven't found voltage yet. but yes if the voltage to the ecm crashes hard enough during cranking, it could definitely not fire the coils or have enough power to open injectors.
 

BG1988

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i bought mine from rockauto 38ea for the oem ones i have not done the driver side yet maybe later this month i can do the swap as it requires a few other bolts to be taken off ( inorder to reach sensor 1 connector ) it's just too hot out to mess with it right now... it's tucked up by the transmission and the main harness is in the way (gotta unbolt it to get to the connector )

the fuel trim is in the +11 range (once warmed it drops to +3-7 range )but the sensor for bank2 sensor 2 was bad for sure as it's pretty seemless out of a (decell fuel cut off) now MPG is way up as well.... as i'm getting into the EVT gear at 40mph ( this drops the RPM to 1,000 rpm ) before it was not up shifting into that special fuel saving gear... unless i took my foot off the gas then babied the gas peddle other wise the rpm was EVT2 or #4 gear which ment 1200 or 1500 rpm, more $$$$$ for fuel ..
 
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