NO Start after Mods - Supercharger

[Foggy]

Finally finished my Supercharger Project... Have to be at dyno shop in morning..
Well, I've got a No Start situation
It cranks fine and kind of attempts to start, but won't keep running more than a second or two
I did not buy the edelbrock tuner with the supercharger kit as I wanted a custom tune.

I figured it would start and run - maybe rough - but run ok enough to limp it to the dyno

So now I don't know what to do- this has been a project from hell

I did a lot of things "while I'm there" kinda stuff.

So All the sensors are new: all ACDELCO : crank, cam, knock, etc .. I even put
in new ACDelco Injectors, ACdelco starter, ETC ETC
I did my Kooks Headers at the same time...
ANYONE know what I might check ???? I have plenty of fuel

 

[randeez]

did supercharger come with a new map sensor? injectors same as before or larger? new cam also - did you delete all the dod and vvt stuff? if the tune isnt changed to account for any one of those it prob wont start

 

[Foggy]

The eaton style charger came with its own MAP sensor - they call it TMAP and all that
all Tees into the factory Map and MAF sensors
I did not change cam or anything... The kit deletes the AFM/DOD/ stuff in the valley pan.
VVT and everything all stock retained

Stock replacement acdelco injectors

 

[Foggy]

The cylinder deactivation solenoids & cover get deleted.. Replaced with a new cover...

 

[wjburken]

The cylinder deactivation solenoids & cover get deleted.. Replaced with a new cover...

Does it even sound like it’s trying to fire?

When you removed the VLOM, did you also replace the lifters? Is the harness that went to the VLOM plugged into anything?

 

[randeez]

sounds like you've had a hell of time up to this point, hopefully youre just not explaining it correctly.... but yea if you delete the VLOM the default operation of the dod lifters if for them to be "deflated". i'm guessing the supercharger will not fit with the stock vlom installed?

i would try just to have only the stock map sensor plugged in

 

[Foggy]

Ok I can take off the hose that goes to intake to the blow off/bypass valve and run that
to the Factory map sensor and see if that does anything... I'll go back out now and try that

 

[randeez]

that was a suggestion for trying to get it to run on the stock tune, i think you're still going to have a problem with the vlom deleted. will the supercharger work with the dod valley cover or no?
without tearing everything back apart down to the lifters you could try some thermal spacers (any for an lsa should work, port/bolt pattern doesnt change) might give you enough height to run the stock vlom

alright i went and looked at the edelbrock instructions, it looks like they delete it all but provide an oil path to provide contant oil pressure for the lifters??

 

[iamdub]

So, stock tune, with it's AFM programming and all, but a "regular" valley cover? There's one major problem. Contributing problems:

1) New crank position sensor which has to be relearned. It would still run on the new one as part of the relearning process requires the engine to be held at 3,000 RPM (I think that's accurate).

2) MAF is reading lots of additional airflow. The PCM should be comparing this to the MAP's input which I'm guessing the TMAP is their plug-and-play solution?

If you still have the original VLOM, plug it in and see if there's any improvement. I don't see how a "delete kit" can just be a valley cover, though. AFAIK, you can either disable the system in the tune and the lifters will stay pumped up and act like normal lifters or you can delete the system by installing all normal lifters and a regular valley pan and tuning out the feature.

 

[randeez]

So, stock tune, with it's AFM programming and all, but a "regular" valley cover? There's one major problem. Contributing problems:

1) New crank position sensor which has to be relearned. It would still run on the new one as part of the relearning process requires the engine to be held at 3,000 RPM (I think that's accurate).

2) MAF is reading lots of additional airflow. The PCM should be comparing this to the MAP's input which I'm guessing the TMAP is their plug-and-play solution?

If you still have the original VLOM, plug it in and see if there's any improvement. I don't see how a "delete kit" can just be a valley cover, though. AFAIK, you can either disable the system in the tune and the lifters will stay pumped up and act like normal lifters or you can delete the system by installing all normal lifters and a regular valley pan and tuning out the feature.

looking at the edelbrock instructions https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/1567.pdf 17/32; it looks like they pull the solenoids off the vlom but i guess the passage way still flows oil to keep the lifters pumped up? and it doesnt really express but im guessing that gets mounted to the supplied valley cover. either way without a tune and the vlom unplugged it will barely run

 

[Foggy]

OK SO THANK YOU for all the suggestions
I bypassed all the extra wiring for the TMAP to MAP, Purge Solenoid and MAF

Just hooked everything up like stock.. I had an extra New MAP sensor .. So I ran
the vacuum line from the SC intake to the stock MAP sensor.... Opened up the
bypass SC valve and kept it half open... and put stock MAF to stock harness.
Started Right Up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ran like shit though... like on 4 cylinders...
SO i got to thinking maybe the DOD lifters were being activated by "default".
So i hooked up my diablosport tuner and just did stock tune with DOD disabled..

RUNS LIKE A CHAMP !!
Well, idle and rev just a bit..
SO I'll take it real easy and drive it to dyno in the morning. And wait to
re hook up all the edelbrock electronics after they do some initial tuning to get
it started up.
Thanks Again !!
I was about to give up hope on this

 

[Foggy]

So, stock tune, with it's AFM programming and all, but a "regular" valley cover? There's one major problem. Contributing problems:

1) New crank position sensor which has to be relearned. It would still run on the new one as part of the relearning process requires the engine to be held at 3,000 RPM (I think that's accurate).

2) MAF is reading lots of additional airflow. The PCM should be comparing this to the MAP's input which I'm guessing the TMAP is their plug-and-play solution?

If you still have the original VLOM, plug it in and see if there's any improvement. I don't see how a "delete kit" can just be a valley cover, though. AFAIK, you can either disable the system in the tune and the lifters will stay pumped up and act like normal lifters or you can delete the system by installing all normal lifters and a regular valley pan and tuning out the feature.

The entire vlom gets deleted.. Just a valley plate with the SC...
I did get it going !!!

 

[randeez]

good to hear, let us know how to tune goes!

 

[iamdub]

looking at the edelbrock instructions https://edelbrock-instructions-v1.s3.amazonaws.com/edelbrock/1567.pdf 17/32; it looks like they pull the solenoids off the vlom but i guess the passage way still flows oil to keep the lifters pumped up? and it doesnt really express but im guessing that gets mounted to the supplied valley cover. either way without a tune and the vlom unplugged it will barely run

Interesting!

Yeah, it instructs to drill out some oil passages and I see why they specify to reuse the gasket. The towers are plugged off with some caps that are held in place by the cover. I'm guessing the oil passages are modified to direct pressurized oil to the AFM lifters.

The entire vlom gets deleted.. Just a valley plate with the SC...
I did get it going !!!

Randeez straightened me out. So, in doing the gasket modding, etc. you get all 16 lifters mechanically operating like it's an 8 cylinder. But the PCM sees an AFM failure and is killing fuel to those 4 cylinders. The tune fixed this. Good thing you have that Diablo! Otherwise, you'd be towing it to the tuner.

Be sure your tuner knows you replaced the crankshaft position sensor so they'll perform a CKP relearn before tuning to optimize it.

 

[Rocket Man]

You will have to take a video after the tune so we can relish in your success.

 

[Foggy]

Thanks for the advice on the Crank Relearn...
And Yes, I'll update this when tuning etc is done to let you all know
how it is running.
Side note: this better be worth it !! what a pita this has been.. Way more
work than just a "bolt on" project for sure.
If I had known what I know now, I would prob have just done cam and heads.
But also know that I'm addicted to boost... so ....

 

[Rocket Man]

Yeah I had a lot of trouble when I installed my Whipple due to a missing addendum to the instructions regarding a secondary set of intake manifold gaskets which ended up forcing me to remove the whole thing and start over. Twice. And the bolts holding the blower on were almost impossible to get to. But it is worth it, you’ll see.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Great responses, diagnoses, recommendations, and support to a fellow Forum member, Guys.

The collective knowledge base has been increased.

As Hannibal Smith always says, "I love it when a plan comes together!".

 

[Foggy]

So, here's my first follow up:
Got it "tuned" and I'm not super impressed.. Although the shop was not
happy with my choice of fuel and wanted me to bring back to them after I run
at least 2 tanks of top tier fuel thru it.. They had to pull a lot of timing

352 hp and 380 torque
Although I know there are a lot of factors in place
Type of dyno, tire inflation, which gear, yada yada....
So I was hoping for more
I kinda figured with 403 stock hp = about 320 on dyno (20% loss)
that I'd be around 400 after the supercharger and headers

 

[randeez]

What's the full rundown of parts?