Lifters, piston slap, or normal?

[ls1frc]

I had piston slap in my 5.3, the 6.2 does not sound like piston slap to me. The sound is too metallic/tappy for piston slap. Piston slap is a hollow sound. Both my 5.3 and my old G8 did it. And it goes away quickly, not after 20 minutes of warming up. I honestly think these lifters are just defective at this point. I am going to throw in the super long pushrods as a hail mary.

Other than cam/lifters, what else could a VT noise be? I hope not cam bearings? I'd imagine bad cam bearings would be opposite, as in quieter when cold and noisier when hot like a rod bearing would be.

Other things I can think of would be oil aeration but I'd think I'd have issues warm as well. Motor is very quiet warmed up....


Listen to this at 30 seconds, this is what piston slap is. Mine doesn't sound anything like this.

 

[Geotrash]

I had piston slap in my 5.3, the 6.2 does not sound like piston slap to me. The sound is too metallic/tappy for piston slap. Piston slap is a hollow sound. Both my 5.3 and my old G8 did it. And it goes away quickly, not after 20 minutes of warming up. I honestly think these lifters are just defective at this point. I am going to throw in the super long pushrods as a hail mary.

Other than cam/lifters, what else could a VT noise be? I hope not cam bearings? I'd imagine bad cam bearings would be opposite, as in quieter when cold and noisier when hot like a rod bearing would be.

Other things I can think of would be oil aeration but I'd think I'd have issues warm as well. Motor is very quiet warmed up....


Listen to this at 30 seconds, this is what piston slap is. Mine doesn't sound anything like this.

The only other thing I can think of is a lifter bore that's wallered out, but I would also expect that noise to grow as the engine warms because aluminum expands faster and to a greater degree than steel.

 

[ls1frc]

The only other thing I can think of is a lifter bore that's wallered out, but I would also expect that noise to grow as the engine warms because aluminum expands faster and to a greater degree than steel.

I have read that Johnson lifters

The only other thing I can think of is a lifter bore that's wallered out, but I would also expect that noise to grow as the engine warms because aluminum expands faster and to a greater degree than steel.

I have read that someone measured johnson lifters as slightly smaller than stock causing lower oil pressure than factory.

I went ahead and measured every pushrod for zero lash. Ranged from 7.260 to 7.275. I had 7.325 pushrods so within spec everywhere.

I put in the stock 7.4 pushrods while I was there just as a test to see if maybe the lifters are gunked up somehow and this could potentially free them up since the plunger is so far preloaded now.

If it still sounds like shit tomorrow morning im gonna swap lifters. The 20 minutes of awful sounding VT noises everyday ruins all the hard work.

 

[Geotrash]

I went ahead and measured every pushrod for zero lash. Ranged from 7.260 to 7.275. I had 7.325 pushrods so within spec everywhere.

I put in the stock 7.4 pushrods while I was there just as a test to see if maybe the lifters are gunked up somehow and this could potentially free them up since the plunger is so far preloaded now.

If it still sounds like shit tomorrow morning im gonna swap lifters. The 20 minutes of awful sounding VT noises everyday ruins all the hard work.

Hmmm...as I understand it, one of the signs of pushrods that are too long is more valve train noise. I'm wondering based on your measurements, if you might be better off trying a slightly shorter pushrod than you had in there.

One of the steps I took in putting my engine back together during my 2nd cam swap attempt, was to mark the top of the valve stems with a sharpie. When the valve train geometry is right, the rocker arms will reach the exact center of the valve stem tips at half valve lift. I spot checked 2 cylinders this way and it was within spec.

 

[ls1frc]

Hmmm...as I understand it, one of the signs of pushrods that are too long is more valve train noise. I'm wondering based on your measurements, if you might be better off trying a slightly shorter pushrod than you had in there.

One of the steps I took in putting my engine back together during my 2nd cam swap attempt, was to mark the top of the valve stems with a sharpie. When the valve train geometry is right, the rocker arms will reach the exact center of the valve stem tips at half valve lift. I spot checked 2 cylinders this way and it was within spec.

As I understand it, in a hydraulic setup with fixed rockers there's no way to adjust it so the wipe pattern changes. The only thing you can change is where the plunger sits in the lifter body by adjusting pushrod length.

Total travel on the lifters is .200. I am down about .140 in the lifter body, which is way too much however should not have any bearing on noise and I am only doing it as a test run anyway to see how it reacts over the next couple of cold starts. The theory is there is now less space needed to fill with oil, so it should fill quicker on a cold start.

It was noisiest with the 7.300" I had in there a couple months ago, which I can see why. I only had .025" preload on some lifters.

I've had dozens of cammed setups and never had noise like this, that's why it's so frustrating.

 

[Geotrash]

As I understand it, in a hydraulic setup with fixed rockers there's no way to adjust it so the wipe pattern changes. The only thing you can change is where the plunger sits in the lifter body by adjusting pushrod length.

I've had dozens of cammed setups and never had noise like this, that's why it's so frustrating.

Good to know! I'm learning every day. Hope your experiment this time pays off and you won't have to pull the lifters.

 

[ls1frc]

Good to know! I'm learning every day. Hope your experiment this time pays off and you won't have to pull the lifters.

Me too! I heard similar complaints about people with Morel 5206 lifters. One guy switched to insanely long pushrods and it quieted down his setup.

I got so good at pulling heads, it would just be a day's work not a huge deal just annoying when you spend $430 on lifters.

 

[ls1frc]

No change with the longer pushrods. MAYBE slightly quieter when warm. The engine sounds perfectly fine when warm, maybe I do just need to live with it ugh.

 

[Geotrash]

No change with the longer pushrods. MAYBE slightly quieter when warm. The engine sounds perfectly fine when warm, maybe I do just need to live with it ugh.

Maybe so. I get why it would annoy you though. It would me, too. My Morel 6504's are definitely louder than stock lifters when cold but quiet down quickly.

 

[ls1frc]

I'd put money it being lifter bore clearance related.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1721865-lifter-tap.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forum...-after-tfs-head-and-johnson-2110-install.html

 

[ls1frc]

Found another video, same noise

Guy said it was one bad lifter and cam lobe

 

[thompsoj22]

just my opinion, Im an oem purist and feel that the majority of aftermarket "high performance" parts "CANT" duplicate the reliability/longevity of factory parts. Dont live with the sound of your valvetrain pounding the crap out of contact areas simply because that is "supposedly" how johnson lifters are flawed in design? Order/install the OEM lifters and send the johnson lifters back with the video/sound of their defective lifters and a video/sound of oem lifters.

 

[ls1frc]

just my opinion, Im an oem purist and feel that the majority of aftermarket "high performance" parts "CANT" duplicate the reliability/longevity of factory parts. Dont live with the sound of your valvetrain pounding the crap out of contact areas simply because that is "supposedly" how johnson lifters are flawed in design? Order/install the OEM lifters and send the johnson lifters back with the video/sound of their defective lifters and a video/sound of oem lifters.

I was considering this. Only problem is the OEM LS7 lifters are now almost $400.

I am also an OEM purist. Problem is OEM lifters are designed for OEM springs, pushrods, and cam so they may be designed better for quiet operation but when you put in an aftermarket cam, they may wear out faster.

IDK what to do, but driving the truck this morning made me want to drive it into the creek lol.

With how expensive trucks are getting even used, I am not giving up on it.

 

[ls1frc]

Here is an OEM alternative. I am considering it.

https://gwatneyperformance.com/prod...nce-racing-hydraulic-roller-lifters-88958689/

 

[Foggy]

"Sustained High RPM Operation" is the in the description...IDK...
Maybe in corvette/camaro/etc...
Truck LS3, most of the time in the lower rpm ranges
They "may" have really stiff internals for rpms
Your cam isn't that big.. I would think an oem style lifter would be just fine.
Although, availability is such a ***** with everything these days (due to socialism)

 

[ls1frc]

"Sustained High RPM Operation" is the in the description...IDK...
Maybe in corvette/camaro/etc...
Truck LS3, most of the time in the lower rpm ranges
They "may" have really stiff internals for rpms
Your cam isn't that big.. I would think an oem style lifter would be just fine.
Although, availability is such a ***** with everything these days (due to socialism)

From reviews I read everyone says they're stock quiet.

I am going to swap in the stock VVT cam to eliminate the camshaft itself being an issue first. If its still terrible, I will roll the dice on these. Swapping cam is like a 2 hour job in the truck.

If it's still terrible after that, then that means the junkyard motor was junk :-/

 

[Stonefort]

Good luck - went through your 6.2 build thread. Nice work and good luck on solving the issue. I know how you feel on certain sounds like you are experiencing. Drives me nuts.

I went through something similar when dropping a new motor in my 08 Bullitt back in 2018. Glad I did it, proud of it, but I would dread doing it again. The whole reason to swap the bad motor was to sell the mustang, so it was mission accomplished but still....it was a lot of close calls and mini nightmares.

 

[ls1frc]

Good luck - went through your 6.2 build thread. Nice work and good luck on solving the issue. I know how you feel on certain sounds like you are experiencing. Drives me nuts.

I went through something similar when dropping a new motor in my 08 Bullitt back in 2018. Glad I did it, proud of it, but I would dread doing it again. The whole reason to swap the bad motor was to sell the mustang, so it was mission accomplished but still....it was a lot of close calls and mini nightmares.

Thank you.

Yeah I spent the extra money on "GOOD" parts to avoid this crap.

The truck runs great, it's very fast for it's size nearly in the 4's 0-60 which is insane. But my primary use for this truck is a cold start, drop son off 10 mins away, back in the driveway. It won't quiet down until I am about to shut it off for the day.

Here it is completely warmed up and it sounds perfectly fine.

 

[ls1frc]

Hindsight being 20/20 would have just slapped the 1900 on the 5.3 and called it a day.

 

[ls1frc]

Found this guys thread. Sounds identical. He replaced lifters and cam and still had the sound for 15 minutes every start.

https://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/to...li-62-cold-start-noise-camshaft-lifters-repl/