Knee deep in first transmission rebuild, opinions welcomed.

[osirus5164]

So, I'm putting everything back together and the sub assemblies are pretty close. I was curious what everyone's opinion was on case savers vs anti clunk spring. Yes no meh?

Second, is load release springs. They're on the table but I would need to order new springs. Crusted in clutch material.

Another curiosity, front pump. So I see that the 073 casting is the same through years aside from the o ring vs wedge seal. My dude has damage to the pump body side but the stator inside is pretty decent. There's lots of options available for the body but they are all boring style. Does that machining for the o ring make it unusable in wedge seal application? I am going to be calling a guy who was recommended as far as surfacing my old one but I'm still curious just in case. Is there anything that I would have to take into consideration with the loss of material or is it negeglable and rebuild as normal? Thanks guys!


Just for kicks, I'll tag @NickTransmissions . Maybe you'll see this while you're having a cup of coffee in the morning and I'll be privileged with some of that valuable insight that I've used in this project thus far.

 

[NickTransmissions]

So, I'm putting everything back together and the sub assemblies are pretty close. I was curious what everyone's opinion was on case savers vs anti clunk spring. Yes no meh?

Second, is load release springs. They're on the table but I would need to order new springs. Crusted in clutch material.

Another curiosity, front pump. So I see that the 073 casting is the same through years aside from the o ring vs wedge seal. My dude has damage to the pump body side but the stator inside is pretty decent. There's lots of options available for the body but they are all boring style. Does that machining for the o ring make it unusable in wedge seal application? I am going to be calling a guy who was recommended as far as surfacing my old one but I'm still curious just in case. Is there anything that I would have to take into consideration with the loss of material or is it negeglable and rebuild as normal? Thanks guys!


Just for kicks, I'll tag @NickTransmissions . Maybe you'll see this while you're having a cup of coffee in the morning and I'll be privileged with some of that valuable insight that I've used in this project thus far.

Pump body casting ".....073" never changed from 1996-2013 outside of the o-ring vs wedge seal, starting in 2004 (wedge seal) - don't mix/match wedge seal cases and o-ring pumps.

Those doing the machine/resurfacing work will know what to do. Have the pre-existing pump resurfaced/re-cut or purchase an equivalent already machined to new condition and check clearances before you assemble it.

Use the anti-clunk spring unless you're racing.

 

[mountie]

Nick... For a year, I was honored to work for the famed, Art Carr " Performance Transmissions ", in Huntington Beach, Ca.
I R&R'd trannys & installed coolers. I knew nothing about transmissions, but being around his artists, was quite an experience.
He built me a transmission & converter for my '88 GMC truck ( could handle 650 HP / 700R4 ) .. Since, my transmission failed 6 times before I met him..... He is famous for his STOUT, 2004R builds.

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions , thanks! I am also leaning towards not reinstalling the load release springs. It's a stock 08 Tahoe (nicknamed lovingly, the MaHoe) that has yet to see any towing and Mrs lead foot may jockey for position on the freeway but that's about it. Flip side, better safe than sorry?

Another hing thing I was curious about is the 3-4 pressure plate. The old one is pretty smoked and when I hold a straight edge to it in the light it seems a little off. It's got legs on it, most options I see online are flat
For reference I'm comparing part numbers:

74141ae
74141b

Was this a change that was made at some point or are these two completely different fellas?

 

[osirus5164]

Also, I built the stack last night just to see and I had .110 clearance. Gonna go back and see if I goofed somewhere.

Edit: stack is alto power pack. Asked for some .106 steels but parts guy sent .076 steels. Should still be mix and matchable?

 

[NickTransmissions]

@NickTransmissions , thanks! I am also leaning towards not reinstalling the load release springs. It's a stock 08 Tahoe (nicknamed lovingly, the MaHoe) that has yet to see any towing and Mrs lead foot may jockey for position on the freeway but that's about it. Flip side, better safe than sorry?

Another thing thing I was curious about is the 3-4 pressure plate. The old one is pretty smoked and when I hold a straight edge to it in the light it seems a little off. It's got legs on it, most options I see online are flat
For reference I'm comparing part numbers:

74141ae
74141b

Was this a change that was made at some point or are these two completely different fellas?

Not sure as I never use part numbers; I simply buy the pressure and backing plate set from my hard part supplier for either the 4L60E or 4L65E, depending on what clutch set I'm using...You can buy the 4L65E clutch pressure and backing plate set plus 7 high energy 3-4 friction plate and 6 lindered (heat coated) flat steel plates. If you run your clearance down to below .045, reuse the load release springs but if not, you can leave them out.

 

[osirus5164]

Not sure as I never use part numbers; I simply buy the pressure and backing plate set from my hard part supplier for either the 4L60E or 4L65E, depending on what clutch set I'm using...You can buy the 4L65E clutch pressure and backing plate set plus 7 high energy 3-4 friction plate and 6 lindered (heat coated) flat steel plates. If you run your clearance down to below .045, reuse the load release springs but if not, you can leave them out.

Do the plates always have little legs on them?

 

[NickTransmissions]

Do the plates always have little legs on them?

4L60E pressure/apply plates always have support legs to mesh w/those on the 3-5-R apply rings. The 700R4s used a sheet metal style apply plate support with the legs and a non-legged version of the apply plate. There were numerous different thicknesses of 700R4 apply plates, any of which can be used in a 4L60E as long as you also install the sheet metal apply plate support ring.

 

[osirus5164]

Top notch information, as always. Transparts is sending me the proper replacement and I think part of my goof was incorrect snap ring, though I'm gonna want to swap out some parts of the stack. Should I swap steels first or clutches? Does placement matter as far as toward the top or bottom?

Man, I could spend forever picking your brain and still learn something new. This build is my first and it's going to be fairly stock ish. I'm building a solid foundation and next will be the unit out of my son's 00 z/28 which we are going to experiment with more mods. It really is fun learning how all of it works, even if there is so much packed in haha. Anyways, thanks for your support!

 

[mountie]

When Art Carr rebuilt my 700R4, it was basically a stock build, but they installed a more stronger / race-style parts for strength and durability, with their hand-built converter. ( Plus, they knew how to beef up the valve body ( IMPORTANT)

When I sold my '88 GMC to a collector in Germany, the transmission had about 300,000 miles on the tranny, and that was 6 years ago. He says the transmission is still perfect. ( I had 392,000 on the truck when I sold it to him)

 

[Fless]

Top notch information, as always. Transparts is sending me the proper replacement and I think part of my goof was incorrect snap ring, though I'm gonna want to swap out some parts of the stack. Should I swap steels first or clutches? Does placement matter as far as toward the top or bottom?

Man, I could spend forever picking your brain and still learn something new. This build is my first and it's going to be fairly stock ish. I'm building a solid foundation and next will be the unit out of my son's 00 z/28 which we are going to experiment with more mods. It really is fun learning how all of it works, even if there is so much packed in haha. Anyways, thanks for your support!

Need to be sure to tag @NickTransmissions or he might not see it.

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions funny story, I think my kit came with the alto power pack as well as stock .80 frictions, not sure why. So narrowing down, I should just be swapping out steels for adjustment, correct? Guess I'll just hold on to those stockers. The plan is to use your video from about 6 months ago as a reference. I have 4 .076 steels to swap out of necessary. Is the recommendation to swap those with steels from the center of the stack as necessary? Again, thanks for all the help!

 

[osirus5164]

Just the clearance to about.028, I think. I suck with the dial indicator but if I left up and hold my calipers to it I am seeing about .028. dial is around .030 but keeps moving on the table.

 

[NickTransmissions]

Just the clearance to about.028, I think. I suck with the dial indicator but if I left up and hold my calipers to it I am seeing about .028. dial is around .030 but keeps moving on the table.

Follow the recommendations in this video - it gives you all the information you need to set up a robust 3-4 clutch pack:

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions so I have a stack for .036 or .032 clearance, I imagine either one is splitting hairs at that point. Load release springs going back in as that was the goal. I kinda have a stupid question though and I'm kicking myself for not making a note of it during teardown. Clearance looks good and everything measures spot on when I air check it but I noticed the sprag assembly has a lot of play within the drum. Like I can move it up and down maybe a quarter inch or so. Is that normal? It locks up clockwise and free spins counter clockwise like it's supposed to. **Edit** talked to a guy at a local transmission shop today and he answered this one for me. All good!

Made a quick video because I'm terrible at explaining:

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions so I ended up switching to a 7 friction setup as it was advised that the 9 friction might not be the advisable on something heavier like a Tahoe. .033 clearance but with the .125 plate on top, the stack is so tall that the springs don't really apply pressure to it. Are there longer springs than the sonnax replacements? Or is the very slight pressure all that's needed? As always any input is appreciated .

the amount that it pushes against that top plate is razor thin. I have another 700R4 steel I could swap out one of the .106 s for to add another .030 but that would be a bit heavy, correct?

 

[osirus5164]

Later thought I had was to maybe take off. 015-.030 off the spring retainers to expose that spring just a hair. Feasible?

 

[NickTransmissions]

@NickTransmissions so I ended up switching to a 7 friction setup as it was advised that the 9 friction might not be the advisable on something heavier like a Tahoe. .033 clearance but with the .125 plate on top, the stack is so tall that the springs don't really apply pressure to it. Are there longer springs than the sonnax replacements? Or is the very slight pressure all that's needed? As always any input is appreciated .

the amount that it pushes against that top plate is razor thin. I have another 700R4 steel I could swap out one of the .106 s for to add another .030 but that would be a bit heavy, correct?

I think that's a good move. I really dont like those super-thin frictions and steels. The 7-clutch 4L65E spec pack using Alto Reds or High Energy clutches are good to go for most applications. Unless you're pushing real hogh horsepower and not using the high rate return springs, I'd just install the factory load release springs. Keep the clearance as you have it in the .028-.035 range.

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions yeah I kinda changed directions on the fly with this one but it makes sense. I just wasn't sure what kinda pressure those springs would need to be applying in order to be effective. The frictions aren't 4l65e spec which I guess is what's making this a bigger. I'm hopeful though. I have a pump body I can rebuild now and I'd like to be excited to assemble finally lmao. Do you lubricate or presoak your Teflon seals when you install them? I have to redo the stator seals but I prepared and got extra beforehand. As always, thanks for the advice!

I think that's a good move. I really dont like those super-thin frictions and steels. The 7-clutch 4L65E spec pack using Alto Reds or High Energy clutches are good to go for most applications. Unless you're pushing real hogh horsepower and not using the high rate return springs, I'd just install the factory load release springs. Keep the clearance as you have it in the .028-.035 range.

 

[osirus5164]

@NickTransmissions morning, hope all is well. I have gotten to the rear sun gear (had to wait on a snap ring I thought I bagged) and I could have sworn I saw something about notching the sun gear but I can't for the life of me seem to find it. Any advisory would be greatly appreciated.