2013 Escalade ESV DOD full delete becoming rebuild

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skpyle

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Hello All,

I am now falling face first into a full DOD delete on the L94 6.2L in my 2013 Escalade.

However…I am still falling.
Cause of this is #5 cylinder intake non-AFM lifter roller is fragged.

IMG_9415.jpeg

#5 cylinder intake non-AFM lifter on left, #5 exhaust on right.




See my thread here where I found the issue:

https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/2013-escalade-noise-ac-compressor-or-engine.155803/





Seems simple enough…
However. Where did the metal chunks go from the failed roller?

As well, during disassembly, I saw two things that concerned me:

1) there were chunks of crud on some of the rocker arm trunions. I don’t like this.

IMG_9436.jpeg

Chunk of crud is bad juju. It does not seem metallic.




2) some of the upper row head bolts under the valve covers had a film of gray ‘antiseize’ on them after removing them. I broke the head bolts loose with a breaker bar, then ran them out with my battery impact. This may just be the oil on the bolt heads being agitated by the sockets.
I cannot find any similar gray film on any surfaces of the heads under the valve covers.


IMG_9433.jpeg

Two head bolts at left and middle have gray film on the heads. Bolt at right has had its head cleaned.
Gray film doesn’t show up well on camera, sorry.




IMG_9435.jpeg

Inside surface of passenger’s side cylinder head. Looks clean enough, no gray film. I am paranoid, though.




My point is that I now have a burning desire to get a look at one rod bearing and one main bearing. It is nagging in my head that the gray film is bearing material.
I watch ‘I Do Cars’ on youtube too much…:Big Laugh:


I had already planned to take the oil pan off to change the oil pump.
Welllllll…now I am thinking of going ahead and pulling the engine. I want to replace the motor mounts.
As well as new torque converter and more upgrades for the transmission.
And the engine work will be easier on a stand.

Yes, this is escalading(see what I did there…).


I am concerned about bearings. OK, I can replace bearings. If I replace bearings, I should have the crank polished.
And with the full DOD delete work, I am just a hop, skip, and a jump away from pistons, rings, and cam bearings.

Like I said, still falling.


So, for those of you still reading, I have some opening questions:

IF, and this is a big IF, I go the rebuild route,

Who do I go to for pistons, rings, and bearings?

GM Genuine?
Mahle?
Hastings?
Speed-Pro?
Federal Mogul?
King?

IF I go this route, it will be stock rebuild. No need for forged high compression pistons, etc…

Granted, my L94 has 175,068 miles on it, had 50+PSI cold start up oil pressure and 25+PSI hot idle oil pressure, and ran balls out.

But, I am this far in, and want to keep my Escalade for quite some time.


Thank you in advance for all your suggestions and advice!


Here is where it stands now:

IMG_9428.jpeg
 

SpareParts

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Hard to say as nothing beats a good hard look. Did it make any funny noise cold/hot before the lifter failure? If not,
I would be willing to bet the rods, mains, pistons, rings are good. Cam bearings are probably shit. The only way to change them is with the engine out. Can be done with the lower end together.
If you go full rebuild, have the machine shop do all the work.
 

Joseph Garcia

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Bottom line, it is a crap shoot. Do you feel lucky?

From the way that you write about your concerns, I think that this is going to really bug you ad nauseum into the future, if you don't tear it apart now and satisfy your curiosity/concern.

If it were me, and not having any known sounds/issues with the lower end of the motor, I'd assume (I know) that it is OK, and I'd focus on rebuilding the top end and deleting the AFM.
 
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skpyle

skpyle

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Hard to say as nothing beats a good hard look. Did it make any funny noise cold/hot before the lifter failure? If not,
I would be willing to bet the rods, mains, pistons, rings are good. Cam bearings are probably shit. The only way to change them is with the engine out. Can be done with the lower end together.
If you go full rebuild, have the machine shop do all the work.
I agree. I can speculate all I want, but I need to put a Mark 1 Mod 0 Eyeball on everything to know for sure.
I have an almost 20 year relationship with my machinist. Am good on that front. :Big Laugh:

Back in August, I had been hearing a 'squeaking/chirping' noise from the engine compartment. It seemed intermittent, happened hot and cold. I thought it was the A/C compressor.
Then I wasted time replacing the P/S pump because I thought it was the issue.
Same day, after a short drive, noise became an angry tapping from the driver's side of the engine.

Good to know the cam bearings can be replaced with the lower end together.

Thanks!




Thanks for this link!




Bottom line, it is a crap shoot. Do you feel lucky?

From the way that you write about your concerns, I think that this is going to really bug you ad nauseum into the future, if you don't tear it apart now and satisfy your curiosity/concern.

If it were me, and not having any known sounds/issues with the lower end of the motor, I'd assume (I know) that it is OK, and I'd focus on rebuilding the top end and deleting the AFM.
I 'did' feel lucky. Until this lifter failed. To be honest, you are correct. If I don't take it apart, I will worry. This will take more time and money than I want to spend, but that is life.
I am going to pull the engine, pull the oil pan, and start inspecting.

Thanks!




In for a pence, in for a pound. Preventing a pounding of your engine's internals is cheaper.
Agreed. If I am going to do it, might as well do it right...

Thanks!
 
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skpyle

skpyle

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Though I am a long ways from ordering parts, here is my shopping list for DOD Delete parts and tools:

PARTS:
-L92 camshaft
-camshaft gear pin
-camshaft retainer plate
-Delphi LS7 lifters
-GM lifter trays
-pushrods
-rocker arm trunion upgrade
-valve springs
-valve stem seals
-head gaskets
-head bolts
-head dowels
-valve cover gaskets and grommets
-smooth valley cover, gasket, and seals
-Set 37 roller bearing rollers to plug lifter towers
-exhaust manifold gaskets
-ARP exhaust manifold bolts
-exhaust manifold to catalytic converter down pipe gasket and seal
-intake manifold gaskets
-throttle body seal
-MAP sensor seal
-fuel injector O-rings
-timing cover gasket
-VVT magnet actuator gasket
-front cover seal
-VVT actuator
-VVT solenoid bolt
-timing chain
-crank sprocket
-timing chain tensioner
-crank pulley bolt
-oil pan gasket and rivets
-water pump gaskets
-steam port O-rings
-oil passage 'barbell'
-rear main seal and plate gasket
-oil pump
-oil pump pickup tube O-ring
-oil pump pickup tube girdle
-oil pan AFM relief valve plug
-oil dipstick O-ring

What I have not yet decided is which parts brands to go with:
GM Genuine?
Cloyes?
Fel-Pro?
Melling?
Michigan Motorsports?


TOOLS:
-pushrod length checker
-rocker arm trunion replacement tool
-lint free rags
-camshaft installation handle


TO DO:
-cylinder heads will be cleaned, decks resurfaced, valve job, valve guides if needed
-exhaust manifold cylinder head surfaces will be resurfaced
-clean the bejeezus out of everything
-camshaft bearings in the block will be inspected


I know there are details I have missed, I am making this up as I go.

Also, this does not include various things to be replaced on the Escalade itself, or the transmission. Or if I replace rotating assembly parts. Those will be later lists...
 
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swathdiver

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Might I suggest:

Next size thickness pushrods
L9H camshaft - 12623065
GM Lifters - 12698945

(There's no such thing as an LS7 specific lifter) There are lots of fake lifters made substandard that call themselves LS7 lifters.


The lifter part number above is used in LS7, L94, L83, LC9, L59, L9H, etc. Same lifter used in LS (Gen III and Gen IV) AND LT (non-DFM) engines.


Are you going to overhaul the heads or send them to a machine shop?
 
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skpyle

skpyle

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Might I suggest:

Next size thickness pushrods
L9H camshaft - 12623065
GM Lifters - 12698945

(There's no such thing as an LS7 specific lifter) There are lots of fake lifters made substandard that call themselves LS7 lifters.


The lifter part number above is used in LS7, L94, L83, LC9, L59, L9H, etc. Same lifter used in LS (Gen III and Gen IV) AND LT (non-DFM) engines.


Are you going to overhaul the heads or send them to a machine shop?
Meaning aftermarket pushrods with greater wall thickness? I will investigate.

Why the L9H camshaft for the 6.0L vs the L92 camshaft for the 6.2L? Is the L9H camshaft 'hotter'?

I had been given a recommendation to get 'real GM LS7 lifters' from Michigan Motorsports, and to avoid any non-GM lifters. I just cross referenced the part number you listed for L94 and L92. I did not realize that was the non-AFM lifter.
Thanks for the clarification!

I will disassemble the heads, clean the valves, and do preliminary cleaning on the heads. My machinist will surface the heads, do the valve job, guides if necessary, and reassemble the heads.


Thanks!
 

swathdiver

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Meaning aftermarket pushrods with greater wall thickness? I will investigate.

Why the L9H camshaft for the 6.0L vs the L92 camshaft for the 6.2L? Is the L9H camshaft 'hotter'?

I had been given a recommendation to get 'real GM LS7 lifters' from Michigan Motorsports, and to avoid any non-GM lifters. I just cross referenced the part number you listed for L94 and L92. I did not realize that was the non-AFM lifter.
Thanks for the clarification!

I will disassemble the heads, clean the valves, and do preliminary cleaning on the heads. My machinist will surface the heads, do the valve job, guides if necessary, and reassemble the heads.


Thanks!

Yes, next size up wall thickness. Not critical for stock engine but if you do any spirited driving above 6,000 rpms, they're helpful.

The L9H is a 6.2 that does not have AFM and has .500 lift. Some of the L92 cams are identical, some are not. Specifying the L9H and part number avoids that possible pitfall.

The latest number from GM is 12711967. The old ones are 12617373 and 12623065.

Yep, that lifter is used in our engines, in the LS7, in most of the Gen III engines and even in the LT engines without DFM.

Sorry to hear about that lifter and camshaft, you've put a lot of effort into making this truck go the distance.
 
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skpyle

skpyle

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Yes, next size up wall thickness. Not critical for stock engine but if you do any spirited driving above 6,000 rpms, they're helpful.

The L9H is a 6.2 that does not have AFM and has .500 lift. Some of the L92 cams are identical, some are not. Specifying the L9H and part number avoids that possible pitfall.

The latest number from GM is 12711967. The old ones are 12617373 and 12623065.

Yep, that lifter is used in our engines, in the LS7, in most of the Gen III engines and even in the LT engines without DFM.

Sorry to hear about that lifter and camshaft, you've put a lot of effort into making this truck go the distance.
Understood about the pushrods. Thanks!

I did not know that. I thought the L9H was the iron 6.0L and the L92 was the aluminum 6.2 non-AFM. Thanks for the part numbers!

Understood about the lifters.


Yeah...stuff happens. The more I dig, the more I believe my Escalade did not receive as regular oil changes as recommended. However, once I am done, I will know what I have and what condition it is in. And will be better!
 

Marky Dissod

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thought the L9H was the iron 6.0L and the L92 was the aluminum 6.2 non-AFM.
Both L92 & L9H lack Engine Half@$$.
Gen4 6.0L: LY6 L96 & LC8 are iron blocks, L76 L77 LFA & LZ1 are aluminum blocks.

more info you might find useful:
 
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skpyle

skpyle

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Both L92 & L9H lack Engine Half@$$.
Gen4 6.0L: LY6 L96 & LC8 are iron blocks, L76 L77 LFA & LZ1 are aluminum blocks.

more info you might find useful:
Thanks for this!
I figured out where I screwed up. My 2013 Escalade has an AFM L94. I searched for parts for a 2008 Escalade that has a non-AFM L92. I should have kept looking and would have found the 2009 Escalade that has a non-AFM L9H.

I appreciate the advice!
 

swathdiver

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Both L92 & L9H lack Engine Half@$$.
Gen4 6.0L: LY6 L96 & LC8 are iron blocks, L76 L77 LFA & LZ1 are aluminum blocks.

more info you might find useful:
I'll add for historical information:

The very earliest L92s, those made before April 2005 or so were equipped with AFM hardware but it was not active in the tune. We see these show up in early 2007 Yukon Denalis and Escalades as they went on sale in January 2006. The 2007 Tahoes came out a month earlier in December 2005!

As for the 6.0 engines, I'll add that the latter aluminum engines were used in the 1500 chassis. Well, excepting the L77 which was made for cars and not trucks. I think most if not all LC8s were found in the 2500 vans.

The 6.0s had similar duration as the 6.2 camshafts with less lift. The LY6 (2007-2009) was not FlexFuel capable and therefore had smaller injectors.
 

Marky Dissod

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The very earliest L92s, made before April 2005 or so, were equipped with AFM hardware but it was not active in the tune.
We see these show up in early 2007 Yukon Denalis and Escalades as they went on sale in January 2006.]/QUOTE]In other words, Engine Half@$$ was already pre-disabled.
The 2007 Tahoes came out a month earlier in December 2005!
Is this when the '07 Tahoe LTZs with L92s came out?
 

rdezs

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This is what you want to see when you pull the camshaft. This is an L94 getting an AFM delete at about 175,000 miles. It had regular oil changes, never more than 5,000 miles. If you see this, the bottom end is good to go.

IMG_20250326_094232997.jpg
 

gwoods71

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This is what you want to see when you pull the camshaft. This is an L94 getting an AFM delete at about 175,000 miles. It had regular oil changes, never more than 5,000 miles. If you see this, the bottom end is good to go.

View attachment 468876
What is the exact characteristics that we are looking for? Just the usual clean wear w/out gouging on the cam bearings?
I am in the same position as the OP except his tear down is farther along until i can get home again.
 

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