Keeping coolant and transmission temps under control when towing in the summer heat

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j91z28d1

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I made it thru all 55 pages lol.


after all that, I do wonder if any of these trucks have actual oil temp sensors and what they get up to.

when you guys are towing up the long grades are you having to be wot in lower gears to keep the speed up for mins at a time? I would love to see the oil Temps. I bet they are working hard.

for the fans, I don't think mine is the same, do you have pwm fans? I saw someone posts about hptuners showing precent for fan to temp. that's usually for pwm fans? if it's just a relay for hi and low, if you can run a switch to trigger the hi speed relay. (used to be done a lot for drag racing to cool down as fast as possible before a pass) I'd love to see if the guys hitting 230 deg coolent Temps tried that and turn them in at 210 and see what happens, especially with the tranny cooler still in front of the radiator. got me wondering if 230 is the temp that over rides the mph setting.

it's been years, but back in the days of obd1 diy tunings that's how it worked, fan request tuned off at a speed, but was over ridden by ac pressure switch or high coolent temp with a 2nd temp switch in the back of the head over riding everything and turning both fans on, at 235 deg if i remember right. mostly all analog back then with less ecm control then today, but we had was well defined tuning, that mph could be changed to 255 so they never turned off and ran straight off temp. shame hptuners doesn't want to spend the time to define the details.

oh and a DC amp clamp would tell a lot on 500 vs 700 motor and even what fan blade loaded the motor harder. when I did my conversion on my other car, it came in super handy when I was working with the fans and tuning % request. how many watts you're pulling is a good indicator of how much air you're moving, even more so than trying to measure cfm. at least when comparing brushed to brushed. brushed to brushless wouldn't be as good, giving brushless should be more efficient per amp. but the 500 to 700 are very close in design, I think you'd see a difference. could test fan blade numbers and maybe ever see if the big tranny cooler in front of the radiator was blocking air bad enough to see a drop in current needed to spin its designed rpm.

oh and all the newer shroud have trap doors in them to bypass air at higher speeds.. these older ones don't. super easy to add if you have the fan out and feel like it using these.

 

Doubeleive

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I made it thru all 55 pages lol.


after all that, I do wonder if any of these trucks have actual oil temp sensors and what they get up to.

when you guys are towing up the long grades are you having to be wot in lower gears to keep the speed up for mins at a time? I would love to see the oil Temps. I bet they are working hard.

for the fans, I don't think mine is the same, do you have pwm fans? I saw someone posts about hptuners showing precent for fan to temp. that's usually for pwm fans? if it's just a relay for hi and low, if you can run a switch to trigger the hi speed relay. (used to be done a lot for drag racing to cool down as fast as possible before a pass) I'd love to see if the guys hitting 230 deg coolent Temps tried that and turn them in at 210 and see what happens, especially with the tranny cooler still in front of the radiator. got me wondering if 230 is the temp that over rides the mph setting.

it's been years, but back in the days of obd1 diy tunings that's how it worked, fan request tuned off at a speed, but was over ridden by ac pressure switch or high coolent temp with a 2nd temp switch in the back of the head over riding everything and turning both fans on, at 235 deg if i remember right. mostly all analog back then with less ecm control then today, but we had was well defined tuning, that mph could be changed to 255 so they never turned off and ran straight off temp. shame hptuners doesn't want to spend the time to define the details.

oh and a DC amp clamp would tell a lot on 500 vs 700 motor and even what fan blade loaded the motor harder. when I did my conversion on my other car, it came in super handy when I was working with the fans and tuning % request. how many watts you're pulling is a good indicator of how much air you're moving, even more so than trying to measure cfm. at least when comparing brushed to brushed. brushed to brushless wouldn't be as good, giving brushless should be more efficient per amp. but the 500 to 700 are very close in design, I think you'd see a difference. could test fan blade numbers and maybe ever see if the big tranny cooler in front of the radiator was blocking air bad enough to see a drop in current needed to spin its designed rpm.

oh and all the newer shroud have trap doors in them to bypass air at higher speeds.. these older ones don't. super easy to add if you have the fan out and feel like it using these.

I am pretty hard-on (site filtered lol) mine sometimes and in the California summer heat it can heat things up. primarily I see the transmission being the most affected by heat when it's 90-110+ out
after adding the B&M deep pan and a tru cool even if I am pushing it around town hard (light to light) I rarely see it get over 180-185, in a stock situation I would see 210-225 often.
driving it hard-on the highway (in the heat) the transmission might run 160-165 up to 180 (rarely) but the engine temp may creep up a little for a minute and then go back to normal, i am just watching the needle on that.
during all this I have been curious about the oil temperature as well and I don't know if there is a oil temperature sensor or if the pressure sensor pulls double duty or if it is just calculated somehow but even after driving like mario andretti the oil temperature stayed right at 180 no matter how hard I tried to heat it up and I monitored it with the tech2 for a good while to be sure.
 
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Geotrash

Geotrash

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I made it thru all 55 pages lol.
Nice job!

after all that, I do wonder if any of these trucks have actual oil temp sensors and what they get up to.
There is no oil temp sensor on these engines. I had a BMW diesel that had an oil temp gauge in place of a coolant temp gauge and found it useful to understand whether I was fully warming up the engine, but that was all. My '07 XL Denali doesn't have an engine oil cooler but my '12 does. It's the main reason why I made the '12 our dedicated tow rig. Even so, engine oil temp does get the benefit of being stabilized somewhat by the engine coolant circulating through the engine's water jacket. Without external coolers, transmission fluid would have no such benefit from the coolant.

when you guys are towing up the long grades are you having to be wot in lower gears to keep the speed up for mins at a time? I would love to see the oil Temps. I bet they are working hard.
No. I can't think of a single time where I've used WOT for more than a few seconds on mine. I've always had enough power to sustain a reasonable speed up any pass while towing, without having to keep my foot on the floor. I might be turning 4000+ RPMs at times, but still have accelerator travel left if I needed it.

for the fans, I don't think mine is the same, do you have pwm fans? I saw someone posts about hptuners showing precent for fan to temp. that's usually for pwm fans? if it's just a relay for hi and low, if you can run a switch to trigger the hi speed relay. (used to be done a lot for drag racing to cool down as fast as possible before a pass) I'd love to see if the guys hitting 230 deg coolent Temps tried that and turn them in at 210 and see what happens, especially with the tranny cooler still in front of the radiator. got me wondering if 230 is the temp that over rides the mph setting.
I don't believe the fans are PWM (pulse width modulation or variable speed, for those who may not know the acronym). They have at least 2 speeds and possibly more that get commanded by the ECM based on thresholds and triggers. But they do kick up too high when the coolant starts getting hot - even on the highway. You can hear and feel it. And it has a near-immediate impact on the coolant temp.

oh and a DC amp clamp would tell a lot on 500 vs 700 motor and even what fan blade loaded the motor harder. when I did my conversion on my other car, it came in super handy when I was working with the fans and tuning % request. how many watts you're pulling is a good indicator of how much air you're moving, even more so than trying to measure cfm. at least when comparing brushed to brushed. brushed to brushless wouldn't be as good, giving brushless should be more efficient per amp. but the 500 to 700 are very close in design, I think you'd see a difference. could test fan blade numbers and maybe ever see if the big tranny cooler in front of the radiator was blocking air bad enough to see a drop in current needed to spin its designed rpm.
It would be a useful experiment, I agree.

oh and all the newer shroud have trap doors in them to bypass air at higher speeds.. these older ones don't. super easy to add if you have the fan out and feel like it using these.

Cool. Didn't know that.
 

j91z28d1

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my hybrid has a 3 speed setup with resistor pack to control speeds. Lotta stuff to cool on these things. the inverter has its own standalone coolent system. if I get a chance next time I'm working on it, I'll command high and get a amp reading out of curiosity. I believe the inverter is rated at 250amps to the 12v system like a alt would be. so lots of power for fans and stuff.


only oil temp gauge I have experience with is on a ls3 c6 which I think is basically your engine without vvt and afm? it's got oil temp/level in the pan. my cars before that didn't. now it was an ls1 making less power but no gauge in a heavier cat. I drove it hard at track and mountains many times, giving oil Temps no thought. it got stolen and replaced it with the c6 with gauge, took it to the same mountain roads and was like holy crap, oil temp climbed to 240 ******. started goggle and it said oil was good to atleast 260 with some saying 300 spikes was OK with good quality oil. I had never put any thought into oil temp, thought it was just like coolent Temps lol. well rest of the trip I ran it up to 260 and then slowed down or ran a higher gear. this car is the z51 package with the small front mount air to oil cooler no in radiator and it just couldn't keep up at all. so that's what got me wondering about you guys towing if you were high rpm wot up passes. if they were and didn't have a cooler at all, if anything like my car it would get hot quickly.

I ended up putting a small spal fan on the cooler and using a gear higher when I could, that helped me keep it under 260 the next time up. then I went to a track day and couldn't complete 2 laps at speed without seeing 300 and having to back down and do cool down laps. I was amazed at how hot the oil got for what it was, (coolent temp was solid 220 at all times) and always left me wondering if I was doing that to the poor engines that didn't have a temp gauge or any type of cooler on the 4th Gen.

my yukon reports oil Temps over the obd2 but yeah its just calculated.

funny I solved my oil Temps issues in just about the same way you did your tranny. aftermarket 2 row radiator with oil in the left end tank, run oil thru that and then out to the front mount with the fan and back to engine. last track day it stayed 265 max temp all while running 4 sec a lap faster than before. if I were to go more often I'd go with the next size up front mount (from a zo6) but the intank cooler seems to help an amazing amount. for reference the only front mount air cooler that is known to work correctly is over 1000$ and takes up almost all the front end with new ducts and stuff. running thru radiator tank helps so much and that's the hot side. but I did drop from the stock 187 stat to a 170 I found. so that and radiator coolent Temps stayed around 200 too.

I'm going to tow the car up into the NC mountain in August, we shall see how this hybrid does. it was perfect on the trip down i10 and back. coolent temp never moved and tranny went to 167 and stayed there no matter how I drove it. I read it's a real sensor in the tranny, not calculated, has to have some kinda thermostat control on it or something. going down near New Orleans it got down into the 30s at night and warmed right up to 167, on the way back in Florida it was close to 90 and ran the 167. made me question if it had a real sensor. but reading another board about towing with a hybrid some old threads where guys said theirs climbed in Temps. so who knows. I guess I'll find out if I need to go down the cooler mod road you guys did here.
 

Foggy

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No oil temp sensor on these.. (I have one on my C5 corvette)

The fans are NOT PWM.. They are low and high (and at the same time always)

You can change the strategy and such with HPTuners...
and it does list PERCENTAGE ... but that really means nothing per se
It take a min % to trigger LOW fans. And min % to trigger HI fans.
Then the rest of the sloping %'s are just how the fan shuts down...
I have changed the override temps on mine, but yet to be tested as on really hot
summer towing my coolant temps would get past what I wanted... Due to the
fans not running at all over a certain MPH...
I'll be able to test that this summer...
 

j91z28d1

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No oil temp sensor on these.. (I have one on my C5 corvette)

The fans are NOT PWM.. They are low and high (and at the same time always)

You can change the strategy and such with HPTuners...
and it does list PERCENTAGE ... but that really means nothing per se
It take a min % to trigger LOW fans. And min % to trigger HI fans.
Then the rest of the sloping %'s are just how the fan shuts down...
I have changed the override temps on mine, but yet to be tested as on really hot
summer towing my coolant temps would get past what I wanted... Due to the
fans not running at all over a certain MPH...
I'll be able to test that this summer...

are you the same foggy on YouTube with the c5? if so I've watched a few of your videos over the years.

so hptuners added the speed fan disable mph? if so that will be very interesting to see what it does for you.
 

alpha_omega

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Just realized I forgot to post an update here. This Derale 13960 transmission cooler setup is still working perfectly for me 2 years later. Fingers crossed, the Cold Case radiator is also still holding up great.

But the most important update is that the excerpt from the Orange GM manual I posted above that states that an external transmission cooler should be plumbed in series *before* the radiator's oil-to-water cooler. This has been superseded by guidance in the 'green' manual that says to run the fluid through the radiator heat exchanger first. Don't know why they changed, but it also matches my learning, as documented in this thread.

Happy towing, folks!
I’m glad I caught back up and read through all of the recent posts, because that orange manual excerpt had me scratching my head wondering “aww hell…did I plumb my cooler wrong?”. So thanks for the update and clarification on that one.

Hope you guys have all been doing well. I took a hiatus from life for about a year or so. I would have to go back and look to see when the last time I posted something on the forum that was more than a few words. Anyways, it’s good to see you guys still have this thread going.
 
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Geotrash

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I’m glad I caught back up and read through all of the recent posts, because that orange manual excerpt had me scratching my head wondering “aww hell…did I plumb my cooler wrong?”. So thanks for the update and clarification on that one.

Hope you guys have all been doing well. I took a hiatus from life for about a year or so. I would have to go back and look to see when the last time I posted something on the forum that was more than a few words. Anyways, it’s good to see you guys still have this thread going.
Wondered where you've been. Welcome back! Hope everything is okay.
 

Foggy

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are you the same foggy on YouTube with the c5? if so I've watched a few of your videos over the years.

so hptuners added the speed fan disable mph? if so that will be very interesting to see what it does for you.
No I am not.. I've seen those too. I do have lots of experience with C5's !!
 

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