Highway driving - do you make constant corrections or can you relax?

[91RS]

I'd agree it's probably alignment. there's literally no good alignment shops. all I can say is try to find one that will let you be there while they do it. fancy equipment doesn't help, since techs can't read instructions these days. same with balancing tires.. 99% of all balancers are set to static balance less then 4in wide, just to make a quick balance job. not a an hour job to do a full dynamic balance.


byond that, the factory tires are pretty wide, I would suspect they follow the road groves. depending on brand of course, like sports car tires run all over the place on the roads from it. especially when it's interstates that see a lot of 18 wheeler traffic.



I will say mine goes dead straight with no effort but is very easy to turn. all stock 170k parts, but I had to adjust the alignment myself, but only toe. rest was ok still after the alignment, they didn't mess anything else up. but my Denali had the 265/70/17 and soft sidewall Continentals. and the odd ball hybrid electric rack without a power steering pump, so I'm probably no help. but suspect tires and or alignment.

Funny that you mention that because I can cruise at *virtually* any speed with just two fingers on the steering wheel with no fight on both of my cars with Michelin P4S. We drove the down in the XTS in October and it was so enjoyable, especially with the adaptive cruise control and then we drove the Escalade down 3 months later and it was not at all enjoyable.

 

[mikez71]

Also you don't have the increased caster for road crown.. (more caster on right?) I'm thinking about adding more caster myself..

 

[swathdiver]

My first thoughts reading the original post was the alignment settings, specifically the caster settings need adjustment.

The factory alignment specs for the Escalade ESV with 22" tires specifies 2.90 degrees of caster on the left wheel and 3.1 degrees on the right wheel.

My Yukon XL with 17" wheels and tires specifies 3.2 degrees on the left and 3.6 degrees on the right. I loved this setting. When I had her aligned 4 years ago, the GM tech and I settled on 3.7 vs 3.9 degrees and I do not like it as much.

Tire tread and size also plays an important part in the alignment settings. The settings for Bridgestone tires the same size as mine are different.

@kbuskill Ken, you're lowered, do you like how she tracks and do you remember your alignment settings?

 

[ivin74]

They do, yes.

You mention the steering gear on the post thats why I was thrown off.

Is the steering feel loose or to soft.
If its loose you may have a bad rack and pinion. If is soft add a steering stabilizer.

 

[91RS]

Also you don't have the increased caster for road crown.. (more caster on right?) I'm thinking about adding more caster myself..

It depends on the vehicle. Not every vehicle does, most newer vehicles do not have caster split.

 

[91RS]

My first thoughts reading the original post was the alignment settings, specifically the caster settings need adjustment.

The factory alignment specs for the Escalade ESV with 22" tires specifies 2.90 degrees of caster on the left wheel and 3.1 degrees on the right wheel.

My Yukon XL with 17" wheels and tires specifies 3.2 degrees on the left and 3.6 degrees on the right. I loved this setting. When I had her aligned 4 years ago, the GM tech and I settled on 3.7 vs 3.9 degrees and I do not like it as much.

Tire tread and size also plays an important part in the alignment settings. The settings for Bridgestone tires the same size as mine are different.

@kbuskill Ken, you're lowered, do you like how she tracks and do you remember your alignment settings?

We’ll see. I’m going to try and raise it at least 0.5 on both sides but may shoot for more. I have a feeling it will rub more but not sure if it’ll be enough to be an issue.

 

[91RS]

You mention the steering gear on the post thats why I was thrown off.

Is the steering feel loose or to soft.
If its loose you may have a bad rack and pinion. If is soft add a steering stabilizer.

A rack and pinion is still considered a steering gear.

 

[mikez71]

It depends on the vehicle. Not every vehicle does, most newer vehicles do not have caster split.

Interesting, never heard of that. I wonder what they do to compensate for the road crown.

 

[swathdiver]

Interesting, never heard of that. I wonder what they do to compensate for the road crown.

 

[mikez71]

What's the deal with the steering angle starting at -1 deg?

Looks like lower profile tires require less cross caster..

 

[kbuskill]

My first thoughts reading the original post was the alignment settings, specifically the caster settings need adjustment.

The factory alignment specs for the Escalade ESV with 22" tires specifies 2.90 degrees of caster on the left wheel and 3.1 degrees on the right wheel.

My Yukon XL with 17" wheels and tires specifies 3.2 degrees on the left and 3.6 degrees on the right. I loved this setting. When I had her aligned 4 years ago, the GM tech and I settled on 3.7 vs 3.9 degrees and I do not like it as much.

Tire tread and size also plays an important part in the alignment settings. The settings for Bridgestone tires the same size as mine are different.

@kbuskill Ken, you're lowered, do you like how she tracks and do you remember your alignment settings?

I don't remember the alignment settings but even lowered I have no complaints, she cruises down the interstate smooth and easy.

I also have 22" wheels. I was running 305/40 Michelin Defender LTX M/S. Got nearly 80k miles out of those 70k mile rated tires and they still had some tread left but were getting down to the wear bars. Had to lift the truck back up to a 2/4 drop with those big old wide tires.

Just had 275/45 Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 put on a few weeks ago and getting ready to drop her back down to the 4/6 drop I was running before.

 

[Scrappycrow]

Maybe it's just me, but I've never once felt like the power-assist at parking lot/stopped speeds was anywhere near difficult. It could be 2x less-assisted and still be the same as any other car I've driven.

The problem is how you get to the "2x less-assisted." If you reduce what the steering box/rack is getting via the valve, the pump volume is not affected, but if you reduce the pump output by reducing pump speed, volume is affected.

Why does this matter? If you reduce pump output volume, you can easily steer quickly enough that the box/rack will demand more volume than what the pump is supplying. The feeling is as if the power steering is immediately cut off and only comes back in spurts (it's similar in feel to having really low fluid level or a slipping belt). This is quite noticeable if you autocross like I do, where quick steering inputs at low speed are common, but outside of competition and on the street or in a parking lot, you might encounter a low-speed incident where you'll be unable to steer your way out of it because your power steering "shuts off" at the worst moment while you're trying to do a quick steering input.

 

[dbphillips]

I'd agree it's probably alignment. there's literally no good alignment shops.

Not true. Go to the guys that do track setup for European cars and can obviously speak the language. I modified the suspension on my Volvo, which comes with waaay too much understeer and enough camber on the rear wheels to wreck the tires in 30k. Now it rides on rails, tires last to the rating and i need to go to the track more to remind myself where the breaking point is.

Same guy worked through my 2022 Tahoe to figure out how much camber gets introduced to GM's terrible IRS per 100# of hitch weight. 0.1 degrees, btw, for those that tow a lot. With 50% towing, also wrecks tires in 30k.

But yeah, can be hard to find those guys.

 

[dbphillips]

What about switching to Chevy steering parts? Kind of expensive, but maybe could get from salvage yard and transplant.

 

[EvergreenZ71]

if you’ve been having the alignment done at the dealership or tire shop maybe look for a well-rated custom shop that specializes in lifting & lowering suspensions and has their own alignment system. They may take a more active and dynamic assessment of the situation.

 

[Charlie207]

The problem is how you get to the "2x less-assisted." If you reduce what the steering box/rack is getting via the valve, the pump volume is not affected, but if you reduce the pump output by reducing pump speed, volume is affected.

Why does this matter? If you reduce pump output volume, you can easily steer quickly enough that the box/rack will demand more volume than what the pump is supplying. The feeling is as if the power steering is immediately cut off and only comes back in spurts (it's similar in feel to having really low fluid level or a slipping belt). This is quite noticeable if you autocross like I do, where quick steering inputs at low speed are common, but outside of competition and on the street or in a parking lot, you might encounter a low-speed incident where you'll be unable to steer your way out of it because your power steering "shuts off" at the worst moment while you're trying to do a quick steering input.

How would you reduce the power-assisted effect? Underdrive pulley?

 

[91RS]

What about switching to Chevy steering parts? Kind of expensive, but maybe could get from salvage yard and transplant.

All of the parts are the same.

 

[mickier]

It's your fat tires grabbing at uneven-ness in the freeway lane... my older corvette used to do that too. You could try running max tire pressure - might help a little - but beyond that, it's just a tiny bit of play *times* 8 or 9 steering connection points... You could even try just a slight toe in - maybe it won't tend to "dart" as quick

 

[91RS]

They’re the stock size. My cars that actually have “fat” tires drive much better.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

I am about fed up with spending money on this truck. On our 2013 Escalade ESV, when I drive it around town or on a short highway drive, it is great. If I drive it on a long highway drive, I get fatigued after an hour to an hour and a half from having to make constant corrections and be on high alert to keep it in the lane. It was a bit windy when we drove back from Florida last time and it was actually a fight to keep it on the road. I was completely exhausted when we got home. I was shopping for Navigators every time we stopped for gas. I haven't driven my 2008 SWB Escalade on a long trip in years since we got this one but I do not remember it being that way and I don't remember our old 2012 Yukon Denali being this way either. Here's the kicker though, both trucks have nearly identical suspension, and I have replaced EVERYTHING, mostly with OEM parts. After the trip to Florida, I decided it would still be best to spend more money on this truck rather than buying a $50k vehicle. I replaced the front shocks that had never been replaced (because they weren't leaking or locked up), changed the lower control arms to the aluminum arms (thinking reduce unsprung weight), changed the upper control arms again because the bushings had some cracking starting, and bought a set of the forged Escalade V wheels (also to reduce unsprung weight). I think I also ended up getting a tire or two warrantied for high roadforce (which shouldn't have anything to do with it driving straight). I thought it drove better, and maybe it is a little better, but I drove it for 1.5 hours yesterday and was annoyed.

I have replaced all eight front and rear control arms with new OEM, new OEM all four shocks, OEM front springs, upper strut mounts, 2" Belltech drop knuckles, Maxtrac 4" rear springs, Spohn Panhard bar, Hellwig sway-bars, used steering gear from a 30k mile truck, new OEM inner and outer tie-rods, new OEM upper and lower steering shaft, new OEM steering column, new OEM steering wheel, OEM Escalade V forged wheels, Michelin Defender LTX tires. I also replaced the steering gear bushings with the gel filled ones from the K2 trucks that reduced the tire vibrations. The alignment is "perfect," I set it up with -0.3* of camber hoping it would track a little better. I have thought about experimenting with the alignment specs and changing the caster or something but we take so few drives that are long enough to notice, I'm not sure how long it would take to tell if it worked or not.

The only thing the truck has going on that might be related is there is a bumping feeling in the steering when you turn, it has pretty much had this since we bought it. I have replaced everything, so I'm not sure what it is. I replaced the column with a used one, then another used one I put new bearings in, and then the current brand new OEM one trying to fix it. I replaced the clock spring also thinking it was that. I found the upper steering shaft was seized when I replaced the column the first time and did that at the same time. Then I replaced the lower steering shaft and put in the used steering gear I found. If a part is at fault, the steering gear seems to be the most likely culprit since it was a junkyard part, but I want to say the truck the used steering gear came front was wrecked in the rear (I looked for that specifically) but I have a feeling that the amount of play that could cause this concern is very small and would be very difficult to notice. GM has discontinued the GM reman gear so the aftermarket new ones or trying to find another low mileage used one would be the only options. I did find it interesting that the Edelmann and BBB Industries gears claim to be updated/fixed "if applicable" and one has 3 turns lock to lock and the other is 3.25 turns.

I'm just tired but we're kind of stuck because there are no other options for a replacement other than an Expedition Max or Navigator L and as much as I'm tired of GM's crap with not supporting the cars they've sold. I just keep getting a feeling every time I think about it that a Ford will be plagued with constant little issues all of the time just like the GM, but the magazines have all said the Ford's drive better than the GM's for years so maybe it's worth it? If I'm going to still be plagued with issues, I'd rather buy a GLS but I don't think that's going to be enough room. I've been so adamantly against the K2 trucks for years but the T1's are so bad that I've wondered if an 18-20 and immediately deleting the Mag Ride would make me happy and I'll just deal with the plague like I have been, but I've spent so much money on this truck with all the paint and all the repairs that I feel like I shouldn't give up on it now. The paint is just starting to go on the passenger side (but paint is still a horrible problem with the K2, so no guarantee I'd get away from that) so that will need doing as well. I think I'd like to fix this, if I can...

There's been a lot of discussion here on wheel alignment, and it appears that your current alignment may be contributing to your issue.

I've been following wheel alignment implementations for over a half a century, and this is what I have learned. I believe that @OR VietVet has also mentioned the same opinion in previous threads.

The one thing to remember about wheel alignments, particularly for our heavy and top heavy trucks, is that superior wheel alignments are an 'art' and not a 'direct science'. The wheel alignment specs are only a starting point toward getting a superior wheel alignment. The Tech performing the wheel alignment MUST be EXPERIENCED enough in performing wheel alignments on these trucks to take the starting point wheel alignment specs and then fine adjusting as needed to the end, finishing with a superior wheel alignment.

I believe that @EvergreenZ71 gave you an excellent suggestion to find a custom shop in your area doing lifts and drops, because it is highly likely that they have Tech(s) who are well experienced in performing superior alignments.