Going backward to a NBS platform

[Bigkevschopshop]

So I figured I would take a few minutes to put together some of the main differences/quirks and driving differences. after going from NBS to NNBS and back to NBS...

#1 Strut front end on NNBS feels so much more solid than Tbars...
#2 Rack and pinion on NNBS is more precise steering but transmits alot of feedback to steering wheel that is not there on a NBS
#3 Brakes on NNBS are quite a bit better stock vs NBS But stock NBS are quite good for what they are and even better with Hydroboost.
#4 AC in the NBS blows the NNBS out of the water from all I have experienced. NBS is cold cold cold when charged right, the NNBS is 5 degrees warmer normally.
#5 Biggest thing that really shows through and makes both vehicles feel completely different is if you drive the 6l80e vs the 4l60e. Night and day difference in driving experience, the 4l60e holds longer due to being less gears but the two extra gears makes the 6l80e just feel 1000 lbs lighter. Going back to a 4l60e after 2 back to back 6l80e, its hard to get used to shifts being a little slower.
#6 Horsepower differences are not too much different but You can feel the difference in the NNBS 5.3 over the NBS 5.3 same can be said for the way latest DI drive.
#7 Towing, the 6 speed wins hands down on towing from a stand still any day. But the 4 speed doesn't hunt gears like Elmer Fudd...
#8 Seats, the NNBS seats dont hold and hug you as much as the NBS do, so in tighter corners you fight for keeping your ass planted.
#9 Gas Pedal, on the NBS the pedal requires more travel, its the early Drive by wire feel, little sluggish, tune helps out alot on this, plus if you have big feet, the gas pedal on bumpy roads may get pressed some with your foot by accident due to seating position etc.

Overall impressions. The tried and true NBS is a great platform, very expandable and modifiable, more so than the NNBS. That is some of the main reasons I always go back to the NBS... I have logged probably 500k between NNBS and NBS ones. I think the atomic T bar delete is probably key to really helping the NBS front end get planted and secure, I may have to try it out myself. Both body styles have their issues, and both are very capable vehicles and can go very high mileage. After being very displeased with seating in the newer platforms, and overabundance of gizmos etc. that I don't need while driving, I think the pure feel of driving is nice compared to the nannys. Its staggering how many 300k mile plus NNBS and NBS rides are out there, so its a testament to how well both vehicles can be done as long as maintenance is kept up and not abused. There will come a day where I will have to buy a appliance on wheels but I guess myself as many others here are trying to prolong that day.

I would like to hear some others idea and opinions on this, I know I am not the only one who has gone back and forth between the two.

Both are my favorite GM produced vehicles and have served me well over the years.

 

[swathdiver]

So I figured I would take a few minutes to put together some of the main differences/quirks and driving differences. after going from NBS to NNBS and back to NBS...

#1 Strut front end on NNBS feels so much more solid than Tbars...
#2 Rack and pinion on NNBS is more precise steering but transmits alot of feedback to steering wheel that is not there on a NBS
#3 Brakes on NNBS are quite a bit better stock vs NBS But stock NBS are quite good for what they are and even better with Hydroboost.
#4 AC in the NBS blows the NNBS out of the water from all I have experienced. NBS is cold cold cold when charged right, the NNBS is 5 degrees warmer normally.
#5 Biggest thing that really shows through and makes both vehicles feel completely different is if you drive the 6l80e vs the 4l60e. Night and day difference in driving experience, the 4l60e holds longer due to being less gears but the two extra gears makes the 6l80e just feel 1000 lbs lighter. Going back to a 4l60e after 2 back to back 6l80e, its hard to get used to shifts being a little slower.
#6 Horsepower differences are not too much different but You can feel the difference in the NNBS 5.3 over the NBS 5.3 same can be said for the way latest DI drive.
#7 Towing, the 6 speed wins hands down on towing from a stand still any day. But the 4 speed doesn't hunt gears like Elmer Fudd...
#8 Seats, the NNBS seats dont hold and hug you as much as the NBS do, so in tighter corners you fight for keeping your ass planted.
#9 Gas Pedal, on the NBS the pedal requires more travel, its the early Drive by wire feel, little sluggish, tune helps out alot on this, plus if you have big feet, the gas pedal on bumpy roads may get pressed some with your foot by accident due to seating position etc.

Overall impressions. The tried and true NBS is a great platform, very expandable and modifiable, more so than the NNBS. That is some of the main reasons I always go back to the NBS... I have logged probably 500k between NNBS and NBS ones. I think the atomic T bar delete is probably key to really helping the NBS front end get planted and secure, I may have to try it out myself. Both body styles have their issues, and both are very capable vehicles and can go very high mileage. After being very displeased with seating in the newer platforms, and overabundance of gizmos etc. that I don't need while driving, I think the pure feel of driving is nice compared to the nannys. Its staggering how many 300k mile plus NNBS and NBS rides are out there, so its a testament to how well both vehicles can be done as long as maintenance is kept up and not abused. There will come a day where I will have to buy a appliance on wheels but I guess myself as many others here are trying to prolong that day.

I would like to hear some others idea and opinions on this, I know I am not the only one who has gone back and forth between the two.

Both are my favorite GM produced vehicles and have served me well over the years.

Great write up! Which NBS did you buy recently?

 

[OR VietVet]

I had my 2002 LT and liked it but I thought, "why don't I go look at a NNBS and see if it is much better". I did feel the difference in the trans right away but I also felt the uncomfortable feel of the seats. The hugging effect of the NBS is way noticeable to me. My 02 still had a cable throttle and the drive by wire was noticeable but I also had 3.73 gears in the 02 and the rigs I test drove had 3.42 gears, drove only two of them and my 05 is the wire as well, of course. But in the end , I kept the 02 and then went after the 05 Z71 I have. Could not be happier unless I had the 3.73 gears back but it is what it is.

I did notice the better/more solid feel to the NNBS steering but after putting the Hellwig bars on the 05, front and rear, I am very very happy. Freshening up the idler, pitman, center link and tie rods and UCA/LCA's and shocks sure helped too.

 

[Bigkevschopshop]

Great write up! Which NBS did you buy recently?

I bought an 04 Tahoe...

 

[Bigkevschopshop]

I had my 2002 LT and liked it but I thought, "why don't I go look at a NNBS and see if it is much better". I did feel the difference in the trans right away but I also felt the uncomfortable feel of the seats. The hugging effect of the NBS is way noticeable to me. My 02 still had a cable throttle and the drive by wire was noticeable but I also had 3.73 gears in the 02 and the rigs I test drove had 3.42 gears, drove only two of them and my 05 is the wire as well, of course. But in the end , I kept the 02 and then went after the 05 Z71 I have. Could not be happier unless I had the 3.73 gears back but it is what it is.

I did notice the better/more solid feel to the NNBS steering but after putting the Hellwig bars on the 05, front and rear, I am very very happy. Freshening up the idler, pitman, center link and tie rods and UCA/LCA's and shocks sure helped too.

How is the ride in general after putting the Hellwig bars on, stiffer ride or just more control?

 

[OR VietVet]

Both. It is, to me a slightly stiffer ride but they really take over when put to the test for control and controlling the vehicle lean in tighter corners and curves. The steering reaction to any input is very quick and controlled.

There is a tight 25 mph cloverleaf exit close to where I live. The fastest I felt comfortable driving with the stock bar was 30-33 mph around that thing. Put the Hellwig's on, front and rear, and left the rear stiffness adjustment in the center hole. I now can enter that cloverleaf at 50 mph and during the drive thru it I slow down to 45-47 mph and while my body is leaning inside the cab, the rig is not completely with no lean, but the lean of the rig itself is minimal. The only thing that limits how fast I go thru there is the squeal of the tires as I play with the speed thru that cloverleaf. Having just rebuilt the entire front steering and suspension sure helps with that feel as well.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

So I figured I would take a few minutes to put together some of the main differences/quirks and driving differences. after going from NBS to NNBS and back to NBS...

#1 Strut front end on NNBS feels so much more solid than Tbars...
#2 Rack and pinion on NNBS is more precise steering but transmits alot of feedback to steering wheel that is not there on a NBS
#3 Brakes on NNBS are quite a bit better stock vs NBS But stock NBS are quite good for what they are and even better with Hydroboost.
#4 AC in the NBS blows the NNBS out of the water from all I have experienced. NBS is cold cold cold when charged right, the NNBS is 5 degrees warmer normally.
#5 Biggest thing that really shows through and makes both vehicles feel completely different is if you drive the 6l80e vs the 4l60e. Night and day difference in driving experience, the 4l60e holds longer due to being less gears but the two extra gears makes the 6l80e just feel 1000 lbs lighter. Going back to a 4l60e after 2 back to back 6l80e, its hard to get used to shifts being a little slower.
#6 Horsepower differences are not too much different but You can feel the difference in the NNBS 5.3 over the NBS 5.3 same can be said for the way latest DI drive.
#7 Towing, the 6 speed wins hands down on towing from a stand still any day. But the 4 speed doesn't hunt gears like Elmer Fudd...
#8 Seats, the NNBS seats dont hold and hug you as much as the NBS do, so in tighter corners you fight for keeping your ass planted.
#9 Gas Pedal, on the NBS the pedal requires more travel, its the early Drive by wire feel, little sluggish, tune helps out alot on this, plus if you have big feet, the gas pedal on bumpy roads may get pressed some with your foot by accident due to seating position etc.

Overall impressions. The tried and true NBS is a great platform, very expandable and modifiable, more so than the NNBS. That is some of the main reasons I always go back to the NBS... I have logged probably 500k between NNBS and NBS ones. I think the atomic T bar delete is probably key to really helping the NBS front end get planted and secure, I may have to try it out myself. Both body styles have their issues, and both are very capable vehicles and can go very high mileage. After being very displeased with seating in the newer platforms, and overabundance of gizmos etc. that I don't need while driving, I think the pure feel of driving is nice compared to the nannys. Its staggering how many 300k mile plus NNBS and NBS rides are out there, so its a testament to how well both vehicles can be done as long as maintenance is kept up and not abused. There will come a day where I will have to buy a appliance on wheels but I guess myself as many others here are trying to prolong that day.

I would like to hear some others idea and opinions on this, I know I am not the only one who has gone back and forth between the two.

Both are my favorite GM produced vehicles and have served me well over the years.

Thank you for this write-up / comparison. Great detail and assessments in common areas, for which differences exist. Our collective knowledge base has been increased, and this will help folks out there, who are trying to decide between the two platforms.

 

[Joseph Garcia]

Both. It is, to me a slightly stiffer ride but they really take over when put to the test for control and controlling the vehicle lean in tighter corners and curves. The steering reaction to any input is very quick and controlled.

There is a tight 25 mph cloverleaf exit close to where I live. The fastest I felt comfortable driving with the stock bar was 30-33 mph around that thing. Put the Hellwig's on, front and rear, and left the rear stiffness adjustment in the center hole. I now can enter that cloverleaf at 50 mph and during the drive thru it I slow down to 45-47 mph and while my body is leaning inside the cab, the rig is not completely with no lean, but the lean of the rig itself is minimal. The only thing that limits how fast I go thru there is the squeal of the tires as I play with the speed thru that cloverleaf. Having just rebuilt the entire front steering and suspension sure helps with that feel as well.

^x2....

The Hellwig sway bars make a very noticeable difference, whenever your truck is navigating through non-straight sections of road. They are not the cheapest option, but I feel that the very noticeable improvement in the truck's handling was well worth the price.

 

[Noggles]

My 2 biggest NBS complaints are the front suspension and the terrible transmission. I know I can swap in a 4L80e and solve the reliability issues but they still drive like they are 30 year old technology. My other car for a couple years was a new 10 speed mustang and that transmission (while not perfect) always seemed to be in the right gear or had a gear for every occasion. The 4l series transmissions has so many gearing "holes" that turn into dead zones or a much steeper downshift than really should be needed. I hope to 6, 8 or 10 speed swap my truck some day to make it drive nicer

 

[RaiderRodney]

We have a NNBS at work and I would 10 to 1 rather drive my 01 Hoe whether to the store or on a trip. The comfort difference for me being a decent sized guy (6'2" around 215 lbs.) is significant. I also can't see **** out of the back of the NNBS compared to mine. I know they have a camera but I still like to be able to see out! Suspension is tighter in the NNBS, I'll give them that one. Brakes and transmission are also upgrades. I'll stick with the NBS for my taste though...and since she only has 160k on her I'm hopeful she'll be around for a long time.

 

[swathdiver]

I bought an 04 Tahoe... View attachment 344637

Nice! Looks great and that's my favorite blue!

 

[Bigkevschopshop]

Nice! Looks great and that's my favorite blue!

Thanks... Its been a blue year for sure, Bought a blue 1930 ford, bought this blue tahoe... Funny how things go a certain way and you realize it after the fact...

 

[Ilikemtb999]

I currently own a 2010 tahoe and a 2003 Yukon.

The Yukon is pretty stock with fresh suspension and nnbs brakes.

Tahoe is lowered 2/3” but otherwise stock as well.

The biggest difference for me is the Tahoe seating position is much lower and with the vehicle lowered feels like a giant car. The Yukon rides and steers like a truck.

The Gen4 5.3/6l80e feels worlds quicker than the Gen 3 5.3/4l60. Tahoe keeps pulling where the Yukon falls on its face at higher rpm.

 

[ivin74]

Its staggering how many 300k mile plus NNBS and NBS rides are out there, so its a testament to how well both vehicles can be done as long as maintenance is kept up and not abused

Amen to that, great write up on the differences.

.

 

[Fubar0715]

As much as the night and day differences are between the 2 generations, I miss my 03 NBS Tahoe, but that is just nostalgia talking! I bought it new 2003 and finally set it free in 2020. Yeah, in stock form it waddled and was sluggish when compared to the NNBS but it was just damn comfortable to drive. The leather buckets felt like a well worn sofa-gosh I miss that thing.

 

[Teamiez]

I had my 2002 LT and liked it but I thought, "why don't I go look at a NNBS and see if it is much better". I did feel the difference in the trans right away but I also felt the uncomfortable feel of the seats. The hugging effect of the NBS is way noticeable to me. My 02 still had a cable throttle and the drive by wire was noticeable but I also had 3.73 gears in the 02 and the rigs I test drove had 3.42 gears, drove only two of them and my 05 is the wire as well, of course. But in the end , I kept the 02 and then went after the 05 Z71 I have. Could not be happier unless I had the 3.73 gears back but it is what it is.

I did notice the better/more solid feel to the NNBS steering but after putting the Hellwig bars on the 05, front and rear, I am very very happy. Freshening up the idler, pitman, center link and tie rods and UCA/LCA's and shocks sure helped too.

I wish my 01 had a rack and pinion it would be perfect

 

[Tiki]

K2 is more like the NBS, NNBS can just be skipped at this point!

 

[Ilikemtb999]

K2 is more like the NBS, NNBS can just be skipped at this point!

Except it’s the best looking body style……(nnbs)

 

[Colby_e32]

Great topics, you just about hit every nail on the head for me.

Some of the major differences to me is the quality of the interior/exterior overall. NBS is solid, heavier doors, thicker metal, especially on the rear quarter panels. The plastic bumpers on the NNBS give it that minivan/crossover suv feel/look. where as NBS is truck like, rigid, strong. Interior trim on the NNBS - the dash for sure, known for cracking - seating is narrow, more firm, but with the LTZ trim and moving pedals, I can fit just as well. 6'6" 285 here...

The gen 4 engine in the NNBS combined with the newer trans like you mentioned is worlds apart. a 4l60 shifts like a loose/sloppy tired worn out truck, where as the NNBS shifts faster, its an overall more performance type feel. and the power output

Like you had mentioned the suspension and steering is the worlds biggest change to me. After driving both, and currently owning a 2001, ive spent well over 2 grand on my lowered suspension, and it still doesn't handle as well as a bone stock 07+ truck.

Torsion bars never were my thing, many people dont recognize what they are missing from struts until they try it. and in your case go backwards.

looks like you picked up a clean truck, enjoy it !

 

[Glidin]

I bought an 04 Tahoe... View attachment 344637

What are those wheels off of? Thanks, Tom