alpha_omega
Full Access Member
This company has had the most converter failures repaired by transmission mechanics in the last four years.
GM 6L80 Transmission Information Thread
- Thread starter NickTransmissions
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This company has had the most converter failures repaired by transmission mechanics in the last four years.
Charlie207
Full Access Member
Where do we find a replacement that meets the minimum requirements not to explode?
alpha_omega
Full Access Member
Check with your local reputable transmission shop. They will more than likely have specific companies they prefer, but can normally order anything specific that you want.
As @NickTransmissions has stated, you want to order a “new torque converter with .050” or thicker converter clutch w/ billet cover - DO NOT let them give you an oem converter with the same POS .020” thick clutch as it fails repeatedly. My converter builder installs a .070” thick clutch for durability.”
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Would you recommend the Raybestos RCP96-189 clutches and 000601 steels? A buddy of mine had his torque converter start to fail on his 13 Yukon and PATC told him the Stage 1 reds would be too harsh for something stock or a little over stock. I don’t want harsh so I’m thinking about getting those for mine also. I’m going to start collecting up parts to rebuild the transmission in my 08 before my torque converter goes bad. I’m going to use the ZL1 torque converter since I have a small cam that would likely benefit from it and hopefully it won’t hurt my fuel mileage any more, I’m going to replace the entire pump assembly for peace of mind, and since I’ve always had a crap 1-2 shift, I’m going to replace both halves of the valve body, plus the Raybestos clutches and steels, and I have new GM pistons for the 4-5-6, low and reverse, and 2-6. Would those clutches withstand possibly supercharging the truck down the road? I don’t beat the crap out of mine, generally don’t WOT from a dead stop, and would likely only do low boost (as in a Magnuson or LSA left alone, maybe 5-6 PSI?).
I noticed you mentioned replacing the TEHCM but our transmission guy said there’s no reason to replace it if there are no solenoid codes or the torque converter hasn’t come apart. He said if there are holes in the screens it’ll need to be replaced. Are the electronics updated in a new one or anything? I sure would love the rev-matched downshifting in manual mode that the later ones have but I suspect there’s more to it than just the TEHCM.
I noticed you mentioned replacing the TEHCM but our transmission guy said there’s no reason to replace it if there are no solenoid codes or the torque converter hasn’t come apart. He said if there are holes in the screens it’ll need to be replaced. Are the electronics updated in a new one or anything? I sure would love the rev-matched downshifting in manual mode that the later ones have but I suspect there’s more to it than just the TEHCM.
OP
OP
Raybestos RCP96-189 clutches are good to go or their stage 1 module and Kolene steels if you planning for higher horsepower down the road.
I won't warranty any rebuilds unless the customer agrees to replace the TEHCM with an OEM or Sonnax-built unit, GM IMS and harness/speed sensor assembly - why take the chance, esp w/the IMS which can strand you if it fails?
TEHCMs do go bad and they have no codes until they do...why put a used part back onto an otherwise brand new/fully rebuilt transmission? Makes no sense but many shops do it because it gets the job in the door and/or customers cant afford a full rebuild so sometimes corners have to get cut...Ive done it before and customer waives the warranty.
For all my builds, I will vacuum test the valve body and pump cover for wear and install the Sonnax Zip kit on all rebuilds (the Transgo Reprogramming kit is just as good and use it sometimes in lieu of the Sonnax). Install the following:
- Sonnax 3-5-R HP Apply ring - gives you an extra flat steel and friction while eliminating the wavy cushion plate
- Sonnax 4-5-6 piston kit - gives you an extra flat steel and friction while eliminating the wavy cushion plate
- Sonnax 1-2-3-4 billet piston (factory versions are prone to cracking, early much more so than later updated versions but I never reuse any OEM 1-2-3-4 apply piston)
- Snap ring for the low sprag (and a new low sprag assembly)
- Snap ring kit for the 3-5-R and 4-5-6 apply piston return springs
- updated GM hd parking rod
- flip pill or Superior Tech delete kit if you have a 2015+ with a TBV
Alright, I’ll add the TEHCM back to my list. I’m not sure I want to get into changing things to where it won’t go together like factory because our transmission guy will be rebuilding this for me as a favor so I don’t want to make it a PITA for him. The billet 1-2-3-4 piston looks good though. That’s part number: 104984-01? I’m getting the GM overhaul kit, part number: 24272475, I’m almost positive he mentioned that comes with snap rings. I’ll look into the low reverse sprag. I also do have a zip kit already for it I bought a year ago.
Are the Raybestos Z Paks the same thing you mentioned about deleting the wave plates? The RGPZ-026 kit with the 2 Z Paks and clutches for the rest is $300 on Rock Auto and then it looks like I need the 615 steel kit to go with it.
OP
OP
Ask your transmission builder about these things so that you can be sure he's familiar and/or has any concerns. I gave you my thoughts but seemed like you're second guessing/questioning them due to your concerns about things not going together like "factory". I'm not building your transmission he is, so his POV is all that counts. Anyone versed in these units would havw no problems at all with the above suggestions but ultimately it's between you and him.
Regardless of what you decide to do, dont cut corners with parts selection.
I’m not second guessing or skimping. I don’t know transmissions, this is one of the few areas I’m completely reliant on someone else, so I don’t want it to be a pain for him since he’s helping me out. When I started looking into this last time, I gave up sorting through the options and said I was going to buy the SRTA and not bother with trying to rebuild and upgrade at the expensive of someone else’s time. If it assembles like factory, I’m willing to do it but I don’t know what does and what doesn’t. The Sonnax parts for the 3-5-R and 4-5-6 looked like I would need to source an extra matching fiber and steel and I don’t know if I want to risk getting the wrong parts trying to find singles. Not many places are selling separate transmission parts online and everyone just wants to sell a kit. I’m sure they make more money that way with less hassle since they know all the parts work together, which I understand, but I’m also not paying $300 for an “overhaul kit” when I can buy the GM seal kit, spacer plate, and filter for $150.
I would doubt he’s familiar with anything aftermarket on these since we would only use OEM parts. He installed the zip kit in my other truck and my coworkers though.
I would doubt he’s familiar with anything aftermarket on these since we would only use OEM parts. He installed the zip kit in my other truck and my coworkers though.
OP
OP
None of my customers buy their own parts, I do all that. They dont know what to buy or where to get it as they, like you, dont know transmissions so they dont get over-involved in the process.
I handle build strategy, parts acquistion and procedural execution. Customer simply tells me year, make, model along with intended usage pattern and engine upgrades (if any) as well as how they need the trans to perform. I take it from there.
If he knows these transmissions then he is fully aware of the Sonnax (and other cos') performance parts available for them and what they do and how to install them. He should also be able recommend a build up for you based on your needs and plans.
Do as you will...
Dealers don't install any of these parts. OEM only. He's worked on transmissions for over 40 years but very rarely has done anything aftermarket. Our two zip kits are the only ones he's ever installed. He also recently installed a shift kit in another coworkers 4L60 but that was a much more common thing to do on those.
OP
OP
Again - Do as you will. It's your vehicle and trans. You asked for advice, I gave it but you want to limit yourself to OEM only and work with someone who is either not versed at all on these transmissions or you're not even giving him a chance to even try.
Do you really think someone with 40+ years experience in the trade can't figure out how to install an apply ring and piston kit??? You dont think he knows where to order what he may need??? Have you even talked to him about it?
Lastly, do you really think OEM only the right approach, knowing all the friggin problems these things have in FACTORY vehicles and engines with stock power levels?
I'm out.
I'm not limiting myself to OEM. The only OEM parts I've limited myself to so far as the seal kit, spacer plate, pump assembly, and the valve body halves (and you didn't say anything was wrong with any of those parts being OEM). I already said I'll buy that Sonnax 1-2-3-4 piston and I said I'd replaced the TEHCM. I don't want to be a pain in the ass for my coworker doing me a favor, I've said that multiple times. That's why I said if it doesn't assemble like OEM, I don't think I want to get into that and you didn't say anything about whether it did or didn't. He said he will install whatever I bring him, but he hasn't researched anything aftermarket for these transmissions and isn't going to. Why would he? We are a dealer. We don't do aftermarket builds other than an extended warranty providing their own aftermarket unit for us to install. We do OEM because we can warranty it. I'm sure he can do it; he's been working on nothing but transmissions for most of his career. He did our zip kits just fine, but I don't want to be a pain in his ass. I don't like asking someone for a favor and then it being a pain. That's why I'm asking questions to figure out how much I'm willing to ask of him, where to buy the parts from, and hopefully save myself some money for this to be worth it over buying the reman unit. Clearly, I'm not trying to be a cheap ass if I intended to just replace the entire pump and valve body to make sure it's right without even taking it apart and looking at the wear on them.
Sorry to bother you. I'll just buzz off. I guess this is why I don't come around much any more.
Sorry to bother you. I'll just buzz off. I guess this is why I don't come around much any more.
OP
OP
Stop prioritizing "not wanting to be a pain in the ass" and start prioritizing what's best for your transmission and vehicle. Even if you're a pain in the ass (using your words) you're a pain in the ass for a couple of short weeks but then have 100-150k trouble free miles because the trans was built right and fit for purpose vs this short-sighted obsession over being a pain and using parts that may not be optimal, in spite of better parts available, for what you're trying to do.
Good luck with it, hope it works out for you.
In reality, I’ll probably be fine even if I go 100% stock. My original has 165k and the only issue is a bad 1-2 shift it’s had since I’ve owned it, our old 2012 had 192k on it when we sold it, and the 4 other Cadillacs I’ve had with 6L’s were all fine on all the stock original parts. My 13 has 183k and I thought it was going out so I replaced the torque converter and did the zip kit and it’s still trucking along a year later.
I don’t really understand the attitude from someone who is supposedly here to help people and what I did to deserve it by asking about going a slightly different route but whatever. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, I’m sure it’ll be fine.
I don’t really understand the attitude from someone who is supposedly here to help people and what I did to deserve it by asking about going a slightly different route but whatever. There’s more than one way to skin a cat, I’m sure it’ll be fine.
OP
OP
Attitude? Lol. Trust me - you would know it if I were to give you an attitude. My wishing you good luck with it was sincere, no sarcasm or ill-intent at all. Again, I would make CRYSTAL for you if it were.
I simply tried to help you. NO DIFFERENT then everyone else that I have helped on here and elsewhere (there's no "supposedly" about it). I answered all of your questions, giving you my thoughts and advice based on what your stated plans for your vehicle. If there was some ambiguity around you asking about whether some parts go together like factory parts then yes those parts install no different than the parts GM uses but give you a stronger clutch pack in both locations and hence, a stronger transmission. I venture to guess your transmission builder friend/colleague that's building it would want the same thing for you.
You're obviously free to do whatever you want with your truck.
Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.
Just don't waste my time in this thread anymore.
alpha_omega
Full Access Member
My man…I’m not trying to take sides here, so don’t read into this reply in that way. I’m coming at it from an outsider. Everyone here is. None of us are in your shoes and vice versa. You asking @NickTransmissions for advice is exactly what this site and sites like it are for - to share the knowledge we all have. However, he wouldn’t have his own shop and wouldn’t be running it as long as he has if he didn’t know his $h*t.
While it’s difficult to “read” a persons inflection, especially with any language barriers based off upbringing, home of record, or current location; I can say for sure that he wasn’t trying to hassle you or start an argument. The complete opposite actually.
If you have any questions as to how any of his suggested parts go together or why it is he chooses them…go check out his YouTube page. It might be beneficial for your transmission mechanic friend as well. Even with 40+ years experience, if he’s only ever “installed OEM bolts” then he may not know everything he could about “bolts of other brands” (replace bolts with all the trans components). I suggest this because how well the videos go into detail regarding the 6L80, OEM parts, tools, components, testing, aftermarket parts…etc. If you are past the point of eating a slice of humble pie (don’t ever be…please don’t), then you can check out a couple of the other transmission mechanics out there on YouTube who are quite knowledgeable as well. However, they all use different parts, so be fully aware of that ahead of time.
I’m just here to help keep the peace, there’s no sides being chosen, political party views or lines drawn in the sand. Other than those individuals with newer hoes/yukon and those with 4l60 vs 6l80. Cheers!
*I doubt it’s the case but if anyone upset Apollo is here to make you smile.
There usually isn’t just one right way to do something and this is one of those cases. There’s a reason there are so many different options to pick. What I was asking about may not have been 100% his way, but it was still a good ways there. It’s BS for him to act like I’m dumb for considering another way, my coworker is dumb because he’s never installed aftermarket parts before, that my transmission will blow up if I don’t do it 100% his way, say I’m being cheap and wasting his time by asking questions about my options, and then backtrack about his clearly sarcastic “I hope it works out for you” comments. So, whatever.
I don't know what else is going on, but Nick's public comments are to help you. When it seemed clear you were limiting yourself to options outside what he was suggesting, he wanted to make it clear that 1) your mechanic may be way better than you think. Nick doesn't know, he is just suggesting you ask. 2) When you made it doubly clear that you wanted to stick to parts Nick was recommending against, he still thought it was a bad idea and wanted to walk away from it. However, he seemed sincerely to desire things work out for you.
I don't know you and I don't know Nick, so I don't want to be an apologist for either of you. But one thing you should consider, for sure, is that the members on this forum who take the time to answer questions or give advice are not doing it for THEIR health. They are actively trying to help others.
Why am I putting myself in the middle of this? You are clearly not an *******, Nick is clearly not an *******, so I don't understand why there is conflict. So I'd really like to remove the anger, frustration, whatever, and go back to talking about this thread's topic, specifically, and helping as many people as possible.
This does include you laying out what your plan is and why -- I'm not trying to silence anyone! That said, I look forward to hearing your build results, preferably with pictures.
OP
OP
@S33k3r - thanks, appreciate the thoughts; your assesment around my intent is correct but not all interactions will end positively; its the internet afterall. That said, the ones that dont are very much a tiny percentage all my posts across all the forums where I'm active.
I would prefer he start his own thread if he wishes to show more about his build vs posting here, as it would benefit him and perhaps others with like-kind situations/applications (I'll stay out of it entirely). Beyond that, this thread is available to anyone else who has 6L questions or information they would like to share.
I would prefer he start his own thread if he wishes to show more about his build vs posting here, as it would benefit him and perhaps others with like-kind situations/applications (I'll stay out of it entirely). Beyond that, this thread is available to anyone else who has 6L questions or information they would like to share.
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