FORD Dealer says "Waiting on Previous Owner/Lender" - 2021 GMC Yukon Denali

[tagexpcom]

We paid for a used 2021 GMC Yukon Denali 6.2L at a Ford dealership. Part of the reason for going this way was to avoid title hassles and have the nightmare of a car that can't be titled!

It's been 3 weeks since purchase and now I have a letter from the dealer saying they are waiting on the title from previous owner/lender - YIKES!!!! The letter ends with "We are required to inform you that you have the right to file a complaint against us with DVM if this delay becomes unreasonable extended.".

Have you noticed how Google is dumbing down? Couldn't find anything helpful except it seems that it's technically illegal to sell a car when they don't have the title but this IS a full-fledged FORD Dealership.

What's unreasonable? How concerned should I be? is there a time limit before I take some action? - any context/comments might be helpful for me to understand

 

[Dburksmem]

I am new here and literally just went through this with a GMC Dealer. I decided to purchase a low mileage used 2021 Yukon XL because GMC announced no refresh would be done. We had planned to order a 2024. Fast forward. Bought the vehicle. Paid with a cashiers check.

A week past and i dont have a title to register my truck. I call their title clerk. She informed me they had just paid the truck off from the previous lein holder 5 days after I purchased the vehicle. I was livid. You are right. It is illegal to do that and most states have fines for dealers after so many days of not producing a title. A dealer can't sell a vehicle they dont own. They have to have the title. Long story short, i just got my title today and registered the truck. Almost 1 month after purchase.

You have options. Look up dealer penalties for your state when a title cant be produced. 2ndly technically the deal is not a deal. You can take the truck back and there is nothing they can do but refund you your money. There is no deal without a title and they cant transfer ownership of a vehicle they dont technically own. Third leave a negative review on every platform you can. Its amazing how I got so many calls to make things right after I did that. You have a ton of options in this scenario.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

These are all questions you should ask before leaving the dealership.

What does your purchase agreement say?

The way this could be handled better is ask the dealer if they hold clear title to the vehicle they are selling.
If so, proceed.

If not, ask them to amend the purchase agreement to say “for consideration of the buyers deposit of $1000, dealer will hold the vehicle in inventory for buyer, provide all insurance, not drive the vehicle more than 10 miles, until dealer obtains clear title to the vehicle. Upon receipt of clear title, buyer has 7 days to pay balance due and take delivery. During the time dealer is working to obtain clear title, and for 7 days after, buyer may, for any reason, void this purchase agreement. If buyer voids agreement, all monies received from buyer will be refunded. Further, buyer will retain title to buyer’s trade and continue to use it. If dealer fails to perform to this agreement, dealer shall refund buyers deposit and pay buyer $2500 cash penalty.”

All that said, I’d go back and have a conversation with the dealer’s general manager and ask for status. Key things to ask:
1) Has your dealership paid off the lien on this vehicle you sold me
2) can you show me a copy of that check?
3) Have you contacted the lien holder and have they acknowledged receipt of your payoff
4) how much longer do you anticipate it taking to acquire clear title
5) when do you plan on filing my application for title

 

[Onlyone]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If it takes a little more time they will get you another temp tag. Yes it’s annoying but they will get it figured out.

 

[tagexpcom]

These are all questions you should ask before leaving the dealership.

This is my 1st used car purchase in 45 years. Part of the reason for going regular Dealer instead of Craigslist is (I assumed) clear title.

They said "We are DMV enabled dealer - we'll do all the DMV for you". And in fact, we did the DMV paperwork as part of the purchase and it was directly stated - plates will arrive in 2-3 months (normal). To me - this indicates all is well (clear title).

What does your purchase agreement say?

Interesting. I'm looking at the paperwork. It's mostly blank forms because no financing was involved.

The papers is
- DMV Paperwork for registration - which I recognize as 'normal'
- Retail Installment Contract - describes the financial part.
- Bill of Sale (small) section on a Power of Attorney page - doesn't say anything.
- Dealer warranty papers (3,000miles / 60 days kind of thing)

- Delivery Agreement....
One section says "STATE LAW" - It is agreed between the parties that the law of the state in which the Seller is located applies to this transaction". As far as I can tell - it's illegal to sell me the vehicle without a title by state law.

No specific mention of the title in any of the paperwork!

The way this could be handled better is ask the dealer if they hold clear title to the vehicle they are selling.
If so, proceed.

If not, ask them to amend the purchase agreement to say “for consideration of the buyers deposit of $1000, dealer will hold the vehicle in inventory for buyer, provide all insurance, not drive the vehicle more than 10 miles, until dealer obtains clear title to the vehicle. Upon receipt of clear title, buyer has 7 days to pay balance due and take delivery. During the time dealer is working to obtain clear title, and for 7 days after, buyer may, for any reason, void this purchase agreement. If buyer voids agreement, all monies received from buyer will be refunded. Further, buyer will retain title to buyer’s trade and continue to use it. If dealer fails to perform to this agreement, dealer shall refund buyers deposit and pay buyer $2500 cash penalty.”

All that said, I’d go back and have a conversation with the dealer’s general manager and ask for status. Key things to ask:
1) Has your dealership paid off the lien on this vehicle you sold me
2) can you show me a copy of that check?
3) Have you contacted the lien holder and have they acknowledged receipt of your payoff
4) how much longer do you anticipate it taking to acquire clear title
5) when do you plan on filing my application for title

I did call the 'title person' yesterday (3 weeks since sale) and they
- acknowledged this was a rental vehicle (as I believed) rather than a private person.
- last contacted 'them' 4 days ago
- that 'they' were being slow as they don't have any incentive to move faster.
- and I would get updated details within 2 weeks.

You know.... I did the test drive period to verify all works AND I did the vehicle inspection at an independent auto shop but I didn't think that one has to ask if they're selling LEGALLY (with title in hand).

Sigh... I guess this is common (for dealers) and it's not time to get too excited yet. But part of posting this is to share with others

 

[tjs3922]

I am new here and literally just went through this with a GMC Dealer. I decided to purchase a low mileage used 2021 Yukon XL because GMC announced no refresh would be done. We had planned to order a 2024. Fast forward. Bought the vehicle. Paid with a cashiers check.

A week past and i dont have a title to register my truck. I call their title clerk. She informed me they had just paid the truck off from the previous lein holder 5 days after I purchased the vehicle. I was livid. You are right. It is illegal to do that and most states have fines for dealers after so many days of not producing a title. A dealer can't sell a vehicle they dont own. They have to have the title. Long story short, i just got my title today and registered the truck. Almost 1 month after purchase.

You have options. Look up dealer penalties for your state when a title cant be produced. 2ndly technically the deal is not a deal. You can take the truck back and there is nothing they can do but refund you your money. There is no deal without a title and they cant transfer ownership of a vehicle they dont technically own. Third leave a negative review on every platform you can. Its amazing how I got so many calls to make things right after I did that. You have a ton of options in this scenario.

It would read through all of your paperwork. I would guess that the dealer was well within the timeline that is legal in your state. 5 days to do the payoff doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Not sure why you would be "livid" with it taking 5 days for a payoff to be done. (Bought my 23 Yukon on 8-1-23, paid off all vehicles involved by 8-8-23, had title 8-25-23)

We trade our vehicles in about every 18-24 months for many years, the time frame you mention seems a bit on the long side of normal in my experience. You got your vehicle and now it is legally titled. Not really getting the histrionics here.

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

Sigh... I guess this is common (for dealers) and it's not time to get too excited yet. But part of posting this is to share with others

In my state, the "Application for Title" is actually on the back of the title; so when someone sells a vehicle, they, as seller, sign that they are transferring it to the dealer (buyer). Then, the next buyer, in this case the dealer, fills their information out on the exact title that the previous owner just filled out; if that person/entity is a delaer, then the ultimate buyer adds their info on the next line, and and that becomes their application for title. This way, all parties know that title is "in hand." There are lines on the title for 3 or 4 (can't remember) transferrs between licensed dealers.

If a lien is listed on the title, in order to make the title clear, a lien release, is required from the secured party, or the application for title will be rejected by the state.

Net, its all in the open, there can't be any funny business about it. As a buyer, you would know, because you could inspect the title during your signing of the back of it (the title application).

I would guess this dealer is trying to do the right thing, and it is probably all on the up and up...the only thing I would check right now would be the legal requirements of how long you have to apply for title after a purchase in your state. You clearly have all the pedigree in hand that shows you legally acquired the vehicle...(bill of sale), the only thing you are missing is possibly the pedigree that says the dealer from whom you purchased it legally acquired it (which they almost certainly did) and a possible lien release if there was one (which there may or may not have been). Only other exposure would be if your temporary registration were to expire before you get your real one. I would keep copies of the application for title and bill of sale in the vehicle with you, in case law enforcement ever needed to see a registration. And, depending on how the dealer acts, I might notify the state...

 

[Dburksmem]

It would read through all of your paperwork. I would guess that the dealer was well within the timeline that is legal in your state. 5 days to do the payoff doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Not sure why you would be "livid" with it taking 5 days for a payoff to be done. (Bought my 23 Yukon on 8-1-23, paid off all vehicles involved by 8-8-23, had title 8-25-23)

We trade our vehicles in about every 18-24 months for many years, the time frame you mention seems a bit on the long side of normal in my experience. You got your vehicle and now it is legally titled. Not really getting the histrionics here.

I didnt trade anything. The vehicle was on the lot for 15 days prior to me purchasing it. The lien was from the previous owner. They payed it off 5 days after I purchased it which was at least 20 days from trade in and probably used my funds to do it since i paid cash for the vehicle. The dealership had plenty of time to pay the lien off before I purchased it. It is illegal to for a dealership to sell a vehicle that has a lien on it and has not been titled in their name. That is the law in most states. When paid in full on delivery, dealer must show the title. I didnt know that until I started researching. Dealers just skate this law all of the time because most just get by. Thats why Carvana and Vroom has had their licenses taken away in multiple states for this same offense.

I live in Ms where you have 7 business days to register your vehicle before penalties start.

 

[rswaug]

You may want to check with a local notary or messenger service in your state before you get all revved up. In PA, we have a secured power of attorney that we can use to transfer ownership in the meantime while waiting for the lien to be released and the physical title to arrive. My assumption would be that your dealer had such a form to be able to transfer ownership. In general, most franchised dealers know the rules and don't play too far out of bounds, if at all. Doesn't sound like anything egregious or nefarious to me.

 

[vcode]

My friend had a similar experience here in WI. He did the DMV work by mail and they mailed him a letter that said he could not get a title or license as there were lien issues. Dealer gave him the run-around and he actually had to go light a fire under the managers desk to get them to get things resolved.

 

[tagexpcom]

Update - no title yet.

Finally got someone at the dealership to talk to me every 2 weeks on the title. This vehicle is from CA Hertz and sold by OR dealer. The latest (today) is the title was lost in shipment and never arrived at the dealership. They said Hertz has agreed to do an expedited CA Lost Title Application - 4-6weeks and resend to the dealer and they are paying to help things along.

They have agreed to issue a new 90day temp registration coming up in a couple of weeks.

The fact that they are talking to me and sharing updates makes me feel like patience (rather than being difficult) is my best bet.

Time will tell....

 

[WalleyeMikeIII]

Update - no title yet.

Finally got someone at the dealership to talk to me every 2 weeks on the title. This vehicle is from CA Hertz and sold by OR dealer. The latest (today) is the title was lost in shipment and never arrived at the dealership. They said Hertz has agreed to do an expedited CA Lost Title Application - 4-6weeks and resend to the dealer and they are paying to help things along.

They have agreed to issue a new 90day temp registration coming up in a couple of weeks.

The fact that they are talking to me and sharing updates makes me feel like patience (rather than being difficult) is my best bet.

Time will tell....

Sounds like it is the only option...if the title is truly lost, there is no way to transfer ownership short of the owner getting a dupllicate then providing...

Still feels a bit shady that the delaer sold it without clear title in hand...but at this point, I'd keep a copy of the bill of sale in the glove box just in case.

 

[tagexpcom]

Sounds like it is the only option...if the title is truly lost, there is no way to transfer ownership short of the owner getting a dupllicate then providing...

Still feels a bit shady that the delaer sold it without clear title in hand...but at this point, I'd keep a copy of the bill of sale in the glove box just in case.

Yes sir, I have copies of all the paperwork in the glove box and originals in my files. The most relevant thing is the paperwork they signed says the deal must comply with State Law and State Law is clear that the deal is not valid if there's no title.

However, I don't see where I loose rights to take legal action by being patient for 3 or 4 or 5 months - so as you say, it's seems like my best option at this point as I really like the rig - flawless operation after 1500 miles.

 

[exp500]

Might even be something like a state lein against the title (which the dealer won't pay). Most states will not release until that is paid. Many auction vehicles sold that way.
Might even be good for you as you get free use for 90 days! I wouldn't try to use it beyond that.

 

[Doubeleive]

Sometimes getting a title takes some time, yes there are laws on how long the dealer has to submit the paperwork before being subject to fines and or loss of there dealer license.
some drag there feet, sometimes there are other glitches beyond there control.
(laws may vary from state to state) but generally anyone including a dealer can sell a vehicle with a simple bill of sale, there is nothing against the law in doing that.
sometimes vehicles get sold 2-3 times before a title even shows up in the mail, again nothing illegal about that.
I could go buy a car today and sell it today with nothing more than a bill of sale and transfer of ownership filled out, the buyer could turn around and do the same. all perfectly legal.
the only catch being the transfer of ownership, if it is in my name and I do not do the transfer of ownership then technically I could be liable if it was in a accident or got a parking ticket, etc, etc,
if it is stolen then eventually that comes out in the wash.
my guess is, eventually the title will show up, you have nothing to worry about unless you are trying to make a placard to hang on the wall for your great achievement! or plan to export it to another country or some other legal reason.
here in California it is normal for a title to take 3-6 weeks to even show up direct from dmv after all the paperwork has been filed and all fees paid. they don't just print it out and hand it to you.

"google: can a vehicle dealer in california sell a vehicle without a title?"
Yes, a dealership in California can sell your car without a title under certain circumstances. However, it is important to note that this process can be complicated and may require additional steps to ensure a smooth transaction. In California, a car's title serves as legal proof of ownership.

 

[tagexpcom]

Update....
1) The dealer contact has taken my calls 2 times now and provided status updates.
2) They mailed a 2nd 90-day temp certificate that went on the car today.

They're waiting on a CA title replacement (for the lost-in-the-mail title) and the title should show up at the Oregon dealer within a month.

Having someone that takes my calls really helps and I'm hopeful at this point.

 

[olyelr]

Update....
1) The dealer contact has taken my calls 2 times now and provided status updates.
2) They mailed a 2nd 90-day temp certificate that went on the car today.

They're waiting on a CA title replacement (for the lost-in-the-mail title) and the title should show up at the Oregon dealer within a month.

Having someone that takes my calls really helps and I'm hopeful at this point.

Yea i suppose. But seems like THEY would be calling YOU. Best of luck, seems like it should all work out, just gotta play the waiting game.

 

[tagexpcom]

Update: Yesterday, they say they got the CA replacement title from Hertz, then signed off by the bank, and is finally ready to go to DMV in the next batch. Apparently they submit to DMV in chunks every 2 weeks. DMV is estimated to be 2-4 weeks. This puts 4-6 week timeframe to see the title/plates - hopefully no later than Jan 12, 2024.

This would make it 6 months from payment to ownership. Extremely disappointing (another example of all the skirting of the law going on these days) and a bit scary as there doesn't seem to be any practical recourse. Complaints, nastiness, and/or lawyers doesn't seem like it would get me the title any faster from a large company like this.

At least patience, being nice is getting me good status (peace of mind) and the vehicle is performing 100%, no issues and all works flawlessly and we never intended on flipping/selling immediately. LOVE the rig - really nice!

Lesson for me - I'll never buy another vehicle without the title 'on hand' - from anyone - and I'll want to see it physically as part of handing over $.

 

[tagexpcom]

License Plates delivered by USPS late last night - which takes the edge off for us! However, the title and registration are not yet in our hands. This piece of paper came with the plates....

has correct ownership info in this section...

Progress, but still no title or registration and the paperwork (above) says 6-8 more weeks?!

Just did an info check on Oregon DMV and while it shows our other vehicles, the Yukon isn't listed yet.

At least the dealership seems to have been providing accurate status on their end.

 

[olyelr]

Yep, not all said and done yet, but still a step in the right direction. Looking promising anyway.