Electrical issue... grounding? short?

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nosole

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I'll try to provide as much info as I can, but I'm completely stumped with a electrical issue on my '04 Suburban 1500 that prevents me from starting the truck (or any electrical response now).

I've had an problem with what I thought was a bad ground where the truck will be functioning fine, then I'll park it, step away for a minute, hop back in, and when I try to start it, it won't start. It'll sometimes click a bit, sometimes try and fail to turn over, or get minimal current with the gauges fluttering and dash lights flickering. This typically happens 2-3 times a year. The battery is fully charged and healthy. To solve the issue in the past, I disconnect the ground from the batter to clean off any corrosion from the cable end and reattach. Sometimes it works the first time. Sometimes I have to fiddle with it a bunch of times until I can get a solid connection, but it's always been correctable and the problem will disappear for a number of months.

A couple days ago though, I ran into the same issue, but was unable to correct it as I had in the past. I removed the rubber boot from the stud/contact and gave it and the battery terminal a thorough cleaning, but the problem persisted. I checked the battery and it was showing normal (12.4V) touching the multimeter lead to the battery terminal, but when I screw in the stud and take my reading touching it, it only reads 4.5-5V.

I was able to get a jump, but it took a few tries. Inititally, it struggled to turn over, but eventually I was able to get it started by tapping the starter (which appeared to be seizing a bit) while starting the ignition. At that point, I drove home, and as soon as I parked it and turned the ignition off, it instantly died. No running lights, no interior lights, etc.

I have since replaced the ground cable altogether, but am running into the same issue. Still no electrical response. Normally, when attaching the ground cable to the terminal, I'll get a few small sparks per usual, but now there is nothing. The battery is still normal (12.4V), and even with the new cable, I get the same reading as above (4.5V) when touching the multimeter lead to the ground stud. Leaving all cables connected overnight yielded no change, as in, no battery discharge, but still no electrical response in the truck. One small thing is that cigarette outlet still shows power for my phone charger (though I haven't taken a reading with the multimeter).

What can I look into next?
 
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Fless

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Sounds like a bad or intermittent cell in the battery. How old is it, and have you had it load tested?

One thing I don't understand is, what contact points are being used when you read the 4.5v? And is the battery connected to the truck then, or not?
 
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nosole

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Sounds like a bad or intermittent cell in the battery. How old is it, and have you had it load tested?

One thing I don't understand is, what contact points are being used when you read the 4.5v? And is the battery connected to the truck then, or not?
No, I haven’t had it load tested.

The battery type for this truck has female terminals on the battery. So the cable ends have a bolt (which I’ve been calling “stud”) that attaches to the battery. When I get the 4.5 V reading, it’s when the multimeter lead is touching this stud screwed into the negative terminal. I get the same reading from the bolt regardless of the ground cable being connected or not.

The battery isn’t very old. I’ve had it now for 3+ years, but when this issue first showed up, the battery was one year old, at most
 

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I get the same reading from the bolt regardless of the ground cable being connected or not.

Wait, you get 4.5 v by touching the meter from positive terminal of battery to negative cable without the negative cable connected to the battery? I didn’t understand that statement.
 

rockola1971

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12.4v is not "normal" for a fully charged 12v automotive battery. It should be closer to or over 13v. Your alternator puts out 13.8v plus.

If you are reading 4.5v across your battery with no load attached then you have shorted cell(s) in your battery OR the battery isnt getting charged by your alternator OR there is something loading your battery down. (likely the BCM) because of a bad ground.

Disconnect the battery, fully charge it, then let it sit for 4-6hrs and measure the voltage of the battery. If its below 12.6v after a full charge then the battery is bad.
 
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nosole

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Wait, you get 4.5 v by touching the meter from positive terminal of battery to negative cable without the negative cable connected to the battery? I didn’t understand that statement.
Correct. But as I’m standing here now, it’s no longer doing that. Here are the readings I’m seeing now…

Battery disconnected, touching terminal (12.3V)
AB398EE3-ED4F-409F-BC44-1AC0A977EB37.jpeg


Battery connected, touching bolt, ignition off (8.3V)
EAD3DD5B-3168-4B5F-A568-D577E08C047B.jpeg


Battery connected, touching bolt, ignition on, engine not running (5.4V)
D263C79D-E598-4527-8933-843084277262.jpeg
 
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nosole

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12.4v is not "normal" for a fully charged 12v automotive battery. It should be closer to or over 13v. Your alternator puts out 13.8v plus.

If you are reading 4.5v across your battery with no load attached then you have shorted cell(s) in your battery OR the battery isnt getting charged by your alternator OR there is something loading your battery down. (likely the BCM) because of a bad ground.

Disconnect the battery, fully charge it, then let it sit for 4-6hrs and measure the voltage of the battery. If its below 12.6v after a full charge then the battery is bad.
Roger that. I’ll give it a full charge, take new readings and report back.

On a related note, I replaced the alternator (with OEM AC Delco) in March last year.
 

rockola1971

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Correct. But as I’m standing here now, it’s no longer doing that. Here are the readings I’m seeing now…

Battery disconnected, touching terminal (12.3V)
View attachment 363203

Battery connected, touching bolt, ignition off (8.3V)
View attachment 363204

Battery connected, touching bolt, ignition on, engine not running (5.4V)
View attachment 363205
Assuming the 8.3v reading is valid then you have something loading your battery down in your electrical system and thats why your battery voltage is so low. Start puling fuses one by one and see which one cause the voltage to jump up to 12v+. Then you are troubleshooting that branch circuit to see what is likely shorted to ground.
 

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Assuming the 8.3v reading is valid then you have something loading your battery down in your electrical system and thats why your battery voltage is so low. Start puling fuses one by one and see which one cause the voltage to jump up to 12v+. Then you are troubleshooting that branch circuit to see what is likely shorted to ground.
Doubtful it would take a pretty severe short to make that happen and one of the cables would be warm to the touch, I would lean more towards a bad battery.
 

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Humor us and get the battery charged and tested, just to rule it out. Go from there.

You could put a current meter on it (DVOMs can usually handle 5 or 10 amps through the current ports). Might blow the internal fuse if it's more than it can handle, but then you'd know.
 

JamesLond

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If you don't have a battery tester like this one, I'd second taking it in to the parts store and having it charged. Their charger both tests and charges the battery.

They'll definitely let you know if it's bad.
 
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nosole

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So, as of now, I can confirm it is a bad battery. I charged it yesterday, let it sit overnight, and it discharged to about 12.35V. Took it to autozone just now to get tested and it is indeed bad.

I do feel like there’s another gremlin lurking, but I’ll have to wait to see until I get a new battery in there.

Thanks for all your help so far.
 

rockola1971

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So, as of now, I can confirm it is a bad battery. I charged it yesterday, let it sit overnight, and it discharged to about 12.35V. Took it to autozone just now to get tested and it is indeed bad.

I do feel like there’s another gremlin lurking, but I’ll have to wait to see until I get a new battery in there.

Thanks for all your help so far.
A bad ground causing the BCM not to goto sleep will ruin a battery and give similar symptoms that you are experiencing. A car battery is not designed to be loaded down towards zero volts and cycled from low charge to fully charged alot. That is what a deep cycle is designed for. Deep cycling a car battery will ruin it and that is what happens when chasing the famous BCM wont goto sleep scenario.
 
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nosole

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A bad ground causing the BCM not to goto sleep will ruin a battery and give similar symptoms that you are experiencing. A car battery is not designed to be loaded down towards zero volts and cycled from low charge to fully charged alot. That is what a deep cycle is designed for. Deep cycling a car battery will ruin it and that is what happens when chasing the famous BCM wont goto sleep scenario.
Thanks! I'll keep an eye on that in case anything flares up.

Got a new battery, popped it in, and all the weird issues vanished. I feel silly for trying to read too far into this, but I've never had a bad battery create such logic defying (at least for me) symptoms. But hey, this all goes in the experience vault for next time, so I'll take it as a valuable lesson.

Thanks all for your input! Very much appreciated!
 

rockola1971

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Thanks! I'll keep an eye on that in case anything flares up.

Got a new battery, popped it in, and all the weird issues vanished. I feel silly for trying to read too far into this, but I've never had a bad battery create such logic defying (at least for me) symptoms. But hey, this all goes in the experience vault for next time, so I'll take it as a valuable lesson.

Thanks all for your input! Very much appreciated!
To give you more insight on exactly what happened we have to dig into what is a battery. Your "automotive battery" isnt really a battery. It is a Jar or Cannister with multiple batteries (cells) inside. They are situated in series. So if one goes dead or electrically opens up the whole string is useless (just like cutting a wire in half). If one of those batteries (cells) becomes weak then it drags down all the cells because they are in series. The max amount of current that can flow through a series circuit of batteries is limited to the amount of the weakest cell since that weak cell cant flow current as high as the others. So your battery had a bad Cell or even more than one. The amount of voltage and current flow was limited and not up to spec. The Instrument Cluster has electronics that only work within a specific voltage range. If the range is not met then it goes crazy and does all sorts of odd things.
Moral of the story is if electronics are going crazy then the first thing that should be done is LOAD TEST the battery. Notice I did NOT say test the battery. Test could mean alot of things to different people. A load test checks the voltage output and current providing capability of a Battery. Just checking the voltage of a battery with a voltmeter gives you a very limited amount of information to start with but it can yield a clue. For instance if you go out and measure with a voltmeter and the battery is 10.9v then its either a bad battery, been discharged by something or the alternator isnt charging it........ Or you are getting a bad reading because your battery terminals are corroded. See how all those went different directions for troubleshooting.
 

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