BREAKING: GM is officially recalling the L87

[vcode]

Man, this is the longest butt-hurt rant I've ever seen. The only thing I'm gonna question here though is...

You complain about your welcome to the forum in '24 or '25, for your '24 model truck, but you show to have joined in '12.

joe

There is also an 8 pager he started back in December on the same subject....... Uggh.

 

[2024 White Tahoe]

I am going to comment on the 9 quarts for these V8 engines.

What I did was check the oil level on the dipstick CAREFULLY when I got my new 2024 Yukon Denali from the dealer and wanted to see what the factory oil level fill looked like on the dipstick. Interesting I found oil level about 1/8" above the top line on the dipstick. I noted this for when I performed the first oil change on the truck, for the record I change the oil in all my vehicles had have been doing so for 50 years, so this is not something new to me.

When I performed the first oil change I had read everywhere that these engines required 8 quarts of oil. I drained the oil, put 7 quarts in the crankcase, started the engine and allowed it to run for a few minutes, turned the engine off, pulled the dipstick and not a single bit of oil was on the dipstick. So I added an additional quart to bring the fill up to 8 quarts, started engine, allowed it to run about 10 minutes, shut it off and checked the dipstick. Oil was only about 1/3 up the hash marks on the dipstick. Decided to wait and verify the oil level the next morning, oil level was still only about 1/3 up the hash marks on the dipstick.

So I grabbed a 9th quart and decided to put about 1/2 of the 9th quart in the engine, oil level was around 1/2 way up hash marks on the dipstick. The goal was to MATCH the factory oil fill on the engine regardless of what the documents stated. Turned out I had to put the rest if the 9th quart in the engine to MATCH the factory fill level.

I posted on this forum asking if anyone had closely looked at the factory oil fill and if anyone had to put more than 8 quarts of oil in the engine. I have plenty of replies from people attacking me telling me I had no idea how to change oil, use a dipstick, read the owners manual, people stated I had the wrong dipstick in the engine or I did not fully seat the dipstick, the mouth breathing PDI clown overfilled the crankcase and that my engine would fail because the crank would hit the oil and cause it to foam up and all kinds of helpful replies. What a way to be welcome to this forum!!

Anyway, here is what I did, ignored all the helpful replies. Started to do my own research and was able to verify the factory oil fill on many 2024 and 2025 model V8 gas engines were almost all showing about 1/8" above the top line on the dipstick. This was not an anomaly, this was the norm.

Anyway, I have changed the oil in my truck 4 times since I purchased it, EVERY TIME I put 9 quarts of oil in the engine. I do about 80% highway driving on this truck and I have had ZERO oil consumption, ZERO oil leaks and my catch can will capture about 1 inch of oil in 4k miles.

You do what you want, but see how much oil it take to get to the top line on the dipstick, I bet you will put at least 8.75 quarts of oil to reach the top line on the dipstick. But to math the factory oil fill level which VERY few owners have verified because they either had the dealer perform the first oil change and probably never even checked the factory fill on the dipstick, you have no idea what the engine was delivered with as far as oil level. I really doubt GM would be over filling every V8 engine by 1 quart as this would be costing them a LOT of money based on the number of the V8 engines they sell annually.

Picture of the oil level on the dipstick with 9 quarts on my truck and this is EXACTLY at the level the engine had in it when I purchased the vehicle with 4 miles on it. I have 2 neighbors with 2025 Yukon 6.2l engines that they both purchased new, we checked the fill level on their engines, same as mine, they are both running 9 quarts in their engines like mine.

Again, do what you want but for those running 0W20 and only putting 8 quarts in these engines, they end up running chronically low on oil due to the excessive oil consumption with functional DFM. My engine used ZERO oil, but I an running 0W40 engine oil, a Range DFM and ASS delete and a catch can. All while putting 9 quarts in the engine and I am getting typically over 20 MPH on the highway consistently working the truck pretty hard.

Use your head, use your eyes, think for your self. Also understand GM used to spec than the V8's required 8.5 quarts at oil change, but customers got tired of paying for 9 quarts at the dealer and only getting 8.5 quarts, so with a bit of paper and ink with NO OTHER changes, these earlier engines went from requiring 8.5 to 8.0 quarts.

Again, do what you want, I do not want to hear anyone's opinion, I know what I and many owners are putting 9 quarts in at oil change and it is working for all of us without a problem.

Anyone that is not changing oil themselves and/or getting a replacement engine, suggest the FIRST thing you do is pull the dipstick and see where the oil level is on the dipstick from the dealer! I would bet it is at or below the 1/2 way mark on the dipstick.

And BTW, I am also the fool that ripped the valve body out of my 2024 Yukon Denali with 8k miles on it to upgrade the valve body proactively to reduce chances of premature transmission problems. This required the exhaust to be dropped from the engine and while at it I also installed an larger aftermarket aluminum transmission pan with a drain plug so I can drain and fill the transmission every other oil change. And guess what the transmission still works and shifts SO MUCH better in the 2-5 and 5-2 range, no more shift flares, indecisiveness, clunky downshifts. Overall a much better transmission shifting experience. So I may actually know what I am doing.


View attachment 469446

The vehicle owner’s manual for my 2024 Tahoe Premier states that when checking the engine oil, you must wait two hours after engine shut-off to get an accurate reading.

You are checking your oil after several minutes of engine shut-off. Perhaps that is why you do not have an accurate reading on the dipstick oil level, and are overfilling the oil?

What does your 2024 GMC vehicle owner’s manual say?

 

[zbad55]

For me I will stick with the 8 quarts that are recommended, but I have to add that I have never checked the oil right after a startup. I have always checked the oil when the vehicle was cold to get the most accurate reading.

And for information only, as far as the plant goes there are part numbers on things like oil, fuel, trans oil, brake fluid and these are a charged cost. In the automatic fill stations these are calibrated for the correct amount of volume with a tolerance of course. I will tell you they are not filling 9 quarts of oil and then telling customers to put in 8 quarts.

 

[jfoj]

@homesick

You may think my post was a butt hurt thread, it was factual and I was trying to make the point that very few comments were objective or at least folks were open minded enough to look at some of the vehicles and see if there is anything to my findings. All the comments were pretty much "your an idiot" type of replies. I can handle it and this is why I responded to try to help people "UNDERSTAND" the big picture. But you can only enlighten a small percentage of the population. If folks think that specs and documentation is never wrong or inaccurate, they clearly will have a rude awakening some day. I have been involved in both the Auto Industry and Tech Industry far to long to take everything at face value. I and or companies I have worked for have been burned many times over the years blinding following some published document. As they say, "Trust but verify!"

Yes, I joined in 2012, this was 13 years ago, understand I also have a 2005 Yukon Denali I purchased new and still have and just ran an errand in it a few minutes ago, 275k miles and counting. I did not join this forum until 7 years after I purchased my 2005 Yukon. I do not recall being too involved with the forum back then, I may have joined because sometimes you need to be a member to see pictures or attachments that are posted in threads. A lot has happened in my life in the past 13 years,

I did a quick search for any posts I had back around 2012 and I came up empty, maybe I did not search properly, maybe the forum has been transferred and upgraded so many times over the past 13 years the keywords and search functions do not work so well. Who knows, who cares?

Again, I have said for owners to do what they want to do, I am going to what I feel best for my vehicle. I was and still continue to be surprised at some of the way members respond when they do not agree or see a differing point of view. But this is the new way of the world since social media!!! Go figure.

 

[jfoj]

The vehicle owner’s manual for my 2024 Tahoe Premier states that when checking the engine oil, you must wait two hours after engine shut-off to get an accurate reading.

You are checking your oil after several minutes of engine shut-off. Perhaps that is why you do not have an accurate reading on the dipstick oil level, and are overfilling the oil?

What does your 2024 GMC vehicle owner’s manual say?

I have checked the factory fill over varying conditions before the first oil change, but I appreciate your concern. The problem here is FEW people have ever seen where the factory fill ended up on the dipstick. At least our vehicles still have dipsticks.

 

[jfoj]

For me I will stick with the 8 quarts that are recommended, but I have to add that I have never checked the oil right after a startup. I have always checked the oil when the vehicle was cold to get the most accurate reading.

And for information only, as far as the plant goes there are part numbers on things like oil, fuel, trans oil, brake fluid and these are a charged cost. In the automatic fill stations these are calibrated for the correct amount of volume with a tolerance of course. I will tell you they are not filling 9 quarts of oil and then telling customers to put in 8 quarts.

See you partially understand, the automatic fill stations are calibrated for the correct volume. What I did is MATCH the fill level on the dipstick I found when the vehicle was new before its first oil change.

The manufacturer can put out a document that states anything they want and even wrong information. It happens ALL the time. I have seen plenty of documented capacities over the years be wrong for many reasons. Plenty of cooling system and automatic transmission fill figures that do not even come close to make sense when servicing a vehicle.

You would think that some simple math on the manufacturing side would have raised red flags years ago if they were buying X gallons of oil to build Y number of engines and they kept running low in their JIT inventory and were way over budget that someone would have looked into what the problem was. They were either wasting oil and money and GM could have saved MILLIONS of dollars annually or they are doing the right thing on the manufacturing side with the factory oil fill on these engines.

Things clearly do not add up for anyone that is paying attention and looking at things objectively.

 

[the 18th letter]

What if the manufacturer is as wrong about filling the 9 quarts as they are about 0-20, allegedly?

 

[Vladimir2306]

The vehicle owner’s manual for my 2024 Tahoe Premier states that when checking the engine oil, you must wait two hours after engine shut-off to get an accurate reading.

You are checking your oil after several minutes of engine shut-off. Perhaps that is why you do not have an accurate reading on the dipstick oil level, and are overfilling the oil?

What does your 2024 GMC vehicle owner’s manual say?

I check the oil level not only when the engine is cold, but also during long trips. My driving habits are such that over 750 miles, I can lose 0.5 liters of oil. So, here's the point: I timed how long it takes for the oil to drain back into the crankcase after the engine is stopped, and it's visible on the dipstick. I can say with absolute certainty that it's within 5 minutes. That's about 0-20 oil.
Immediately after stopping the engine, the dipstick will be dry, and you can check the level after 5 minutes. The level won't change after 10 minutes, 15 minutes, an hour, or overnight. However, when the oil is hot, it's too thin, so you need to carefully examine the ribbed surface of the dipstick to see where the oil level is. Otherwise, after 5 minutes, you can safely check.

 

[jfoj]

What if the documented oil fill spec is wrong!

It cuts both ways but I'd rather have more oil than less. Additionally the oil level I'm dealing with is not a problem it's minimally, at best around 20-25% above the top fill mark. In this case we're talking about a whopping 4 oz!!

 

[Vladimir2306]

You know, reading this thread, I have strange thoughts. I'll try to explain them. According to statistics, only 3-5% of owners have breakdowns. This means that the remaining 95-97% of owners have not experienced any breakdowns. Well, that's a big percentage. Against this background, it is strange for some people to report that they already have the 3rd or 4th new engine in their car. No matter how strange it is, well, getting into these 3-5% is already an anti-luck, but getting into them 2-3 times in a row is downright epic bad luck. Why am I saying all this, it seems that the issue is not the marriage of the engines, but some kind of factors that kill the engines. Well, these owners did something wrong, that their 2nd or 3rd engine broke down. Something that GM did not calculate for, taking into account the operating parameters of its engines.

 

[Antonm]

@homesick

All the comments were pretty much "your an idiot" type of replies.

Well, it's "you're" , and it's hard to fathom why you got those types of replies when you were advocating the absolutely ridiculous practice of purposely overfilling the engine crankcase.
...

 

[Antonm]

What if the documented oil fill spec is wrong!

LOL, really. If by 'well-documented' you mean there is one idiot on the internet saying it, then sure.
...

 

[jfoj]

Antonm so glad to see that you're back. I think we've all missed your wisdom. Yeah sometimes I'm doing some of this on my phone voice to text and I don't catch everything but if you want to be the grammar police for every single thing knock yourself out.

I'm the effing idiot, everyone else is perfect and does everything properly!!! Come talk to me in 10 or 20 years and we'll see how many miles I have on my 2024.

 

[Antonm]

I'm the effing idiot.

Hey, you finally said something that I wholeheartedly agree with.

I quit checking this forum regularly because the two loudest voices (you and the resident purveyor of Russian disinformation) put out so many half-truths and whole lies that the site isn't worth reading on the regular.
...

 

[jfoj]

Since you can't make a valid argument, you tend to personally attack people. That's a sign you should look in the mirror.

 

[Vladimir2306]

Hey, you finally said something that I wholeheartedly agree with.

I quit checking this forum regularly because the two loudest voices (you and the resident purveyor of Russian disinformation) put out so many half-truths and whole lies that the site isn't worth reading on the regular.
...

Let's not involve me in your pair games.

 

[JTGZ71]

Why am I saying all this, it seems that the issue is not the marriage of the engines, but some kind of factors that kill the engines. Well, these owners did something wrong, that their 2nd or 3rd engine broke down. Something that GM did not calculate for, taking into account the operating parameters of its engines.

I have wondered about this, but I'm not ready to say that these owners did something wrong. One thing I am more curious about, is whether owners who had an engine failure had observed ANY warning signs leading up to the failure? Based on the stories shared on here, it generally just sounds like the engines failed with zero previous issues observed. And if that is the case, so be it.

GM's FAQs included the following:

Q3) What symptoms may be experienced? What warning signs may be associated with the issue or condition described?

A3) Drivers may be alerted to the condition prior to failure from: (a) knocking, banging, or other unusual engine noises; (b) illumination of the check engine light; and/or (c) engine-performance issues, including hesitation, high RPMs, abnormal shifting, reduced propulsion, or a no-start condition.

Maybe this is all BS, and GM knows that there will actually not be any noticeable symptoms or warning signs prior to failure. But I am curious, is it possible there are any owners out there (I'm NOT saying anyone specifically on this message board who has experienced a failure) who observed any of these symptoms/warnings signs prior to failure, and either ignored them or just weren't able to respond to them before their engine failed?

 

[vcode]

Anyone old enough to remember the TV show ABC did on the oil capacity subject....... "Eight is Enough"? LOL!

 

[blanchard7684]

Before I joined this site I checked the oil level on my '24 suburban. It had 50 miles on it. It had set for two hours as I washed it and configured the interior how I like it.

The dipstick registered exactly as @jfoj indicates. It was to the top of the dipstick cross hatch area and above the top mark. I checked it 4 times and got same result.

First oil change I put in 8 quarts (including full oil filter). To my surprise the oil level was only half way up cross hatch mark. I had to add half quart and then some to get it to the factory fill point.

5 oil changes later with PF63 oil filter the exact same situation prevails.

I even checked with a level in three spots to make sure it wasn't leaning side to side or front to back.

Owners manual stipulates 8 qts. It gets you on the dipstick and you can run it that way. But it also clearly mentions the volumes are approximate.

I'll also note that my 2019 Tundra behaves same way. Manual indicates 8.5 quarts but if I let it drain for more than 30 minutes I have to fill up to 9 qts. The completely empty oil charge volume is 9.3 qts.

 

[homesick]

@homesick

You may think my post was a butt hurt thread, it was factual and I was trying to make the point that very few comments were objective or at least folks were open minded enough to look at some of the vehicles and see if there is anything to my findings. All the comments were pretty much "your an idiot" type of replies. I can handle it and this is why I responded to try to help people "UNDERSTAND" the big picture. But you can only enlighten a small percentage of the population. If folks think that specs and documentation is never wrong or inaccurate, they clearly will have a rude awakening some day. I have been involved in both the Auto Industry and Tech Industry far to long to take everything at face value. I and or companies I have worked for have been burned many times over the years blinding following some published document. As they say, "Trust but verify!"

Yes, I joined in 2012, this was 13 years ago, understand I also have a 2005 Yukon Denali I purchased new and still have and just ran an errand in it a few minutes ago, 275k miles and counting. I did not join this forum until 7 years after I purchased my 2005 Yukon. I do not recall being too involved with the forum back then, I may have joined because sometimes you need to be a member to see pictures or attachments that are posted in threads. A lot has happened in my life in the past 13 years,

I did a quick search for any posts I had back around 2012 and I came up empty, maybe I did not search properly, maybe the forum has been transferred and upgraded so many times over the past 13 years the keywords and search functions do not work so well. Who knows, who cares?

Again, I have said for owners to do what they want to do, I am going to what I feel best for my vehicle. I was and still continue to be surprised at some of the way members respond when they do not agree or see a differing point of view. But this is the new way of the world since social media!!! Go figure.

Man, for your own sake, relax. Move on.

joe