2013 PPV Slight Idle Shake Unknown Cause

[State_Blue_Man]

Hello All,
I have recently picked up a new to me PPV out of northern Michigan.

I have read many may idle shake posts but none lead me down a good path or things to check. I got the 20 pages of service records of from the shop that took care of truck the whole time. Nothing unusual other than they replaced the fuel pump around 40k.

Truck: 2013 5.3 PPV 2WD 141,520 miles
Overall the drivabilty is good and fuel economy is okay about 13-14 combine. I think that is kind of low but i can deal with that for now. (Maybe reset fuel trims and see what happens)

Conditions Experienced:
Slight shake at idle felt in the truck every 7-10 seconds & felt for 1-2 seconds, when driving no shake is felt
AC can be on or off (sometimes worse when AC is on Full Blast)
Park, Drive, Neutral, or Manual doesn't matter
No misfire Fault Codes
No down stream O2 Fault Codes
No MAP/MAF Fault Codes
No Fuel Pressure Faults or Injector Faults
No others than what is listed below
The truck does have a slight top end tick on the passenger side but quiet on the driver side
Oil pressures are okay

My friend is a mechanic and pulled the codes for me. He couldn't put much time into it but i got a chance to see the O2 sensor read out and the driver side bank is definitely abnormal readings. He told me to do the basics like plugs, wires etc.. Then come back when he an i have more time.

P015B Bank one O2
P219A
P219B

I looked for intake leaks everywhere and spraying brake cleaner looking for an idle bump to detect a leak and then find the cause. I didn't find one. Inspected the exhaust manifold and pipes for cracks and noises none were found other than one manifold bolt head was broke off but looked to be that way for an extended period of time because it was rusted. Checked for coolant in the oil and was okay.
I replaced the air filter it needed one anyway. Cleaned the MAF and throttle body to ensure there was no deposits. changed plugs and wires. replaced the driver and passenger up stream O2 sensors. After it was all done and drove about 20mi Put in a fuel cleaner (redline) in a fresh tank to see if it helps.
the Fuel treatment and new parts seemed to ease the idle shake but it was still present.

Note: Passenger side O2 looked okay dry and black
Driver side O2 looked about the same but more rust color and dry

About 50mi into driving they came back on with more codes and some of the same.
P015A
P015B
P219A
P219B

I took it back to the shop to take a deeper look. Keep in mind i want to fix this the first time and try not to throw parts and this and waste more time and money.
O2 sensor on the driver side functions better than before but still not functioning correctly after replacement so it was either something engine related or Cat related (partially plugged from idle hours).

I was told to replace the CAT but i need to see if it was plugged visually or slightly turned before replacement so i spend 400 on a new Y-pipe. Also, consider a new MAF to ensure its not on the finge of failure.

I have not done any of this yet but will this weekend or the next.

Has anyone experienced something like this and fixed it?

 

[Kee Fuller]

Motor and transmission mounts?

 

[Big Mama]

@swathdiver is pretty well versed at dissecting codes.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

I’ll check the motor and transmission mounts to see if there is any play.

yesterday I was stopped in traffic and noticed the idle was below 500rpm on the tach and the truck ran really rough until I moved. AC and defrost was off.

I’m confused.

 

[Eod1]

I hate to say this. But if you don't want to chase this for ever. Go to chevy. It might cost a little but they should be able to diagnose and fix. If your friend works for chevy great if not, well...

 

[State_Blue_Man]

I'm about to that point where i drop it off at the Chevy dealer for diagnosis and see what they say.

 

[swathdiver]

Truck: 2013 5.3 PPV 2WD 141,520 miles
Overall the drivabilty is good and fuel economy is okay about 13-14 combine. I think that is kind of low

About 50mi into driving they came back on with more codes and some of the same.
P015A
P015B
P219A
P219B

Well, none of those are valid OBDII GM codes for the GMT900 platform. As for the mileage and cats, this is what mine was delivering when the cats were on their way out and just starting to throw codes (P0420 and P0430). Drove fine and may have had a slight tic/miss as you describe. Installed new Magnaflow y-pipe with cats and the gas mileage came back up.

 

[justme]

welcome to the club State_Blue_Man , and I don't mean this forum... I have the same exact action going on a 2012 ppv.

does it do a slight shudder when you touch the gas when cruising?

all your other symptoms, including the passenger side click is going on in mine. my mechanic put the stethoscope on it and stated that it is definitely in the engine and not a belt or pulley.
I am not getting any check engine lights, even briefly. I have yet to put it on the scanner, but that is next.

from what I've researched, it is very likely a malfunctioning VLOM in the context of ActiveFuelManagement function (aka DisplacementOnDemand, AFM, DOD)

I have ordered the range device as a quick test. the pinging is likely a valve rocker, or lifter issue.

... and I will follow up as soon as I run the next set of tests.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

Well, none of those are valid OBDII GM codes for the GMT900 platform. As for the mileage and cats, this is what mine was delivering when the cats were on their way out and just starting to throw codes (P0420 and P0430). Drove fine and may have had a slight tic/miss as you describe. Installed new Magnaflow y-pipe with cats and the gas mileage came back up.

This is the codes and description from the scanner at the local about parts store.
P015B bank one sensor o2
P219A fuel bank 1 imbalance
P219B fuel bank 2 imbalance

I appreciate input on a similar fix I’ll definitely check the cat and see if it’s plugged.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

welcome to the club State_Blue_Man , and I don't mean this forum... I have the same exact action going on a 2012 ppv.

does it do a slight shudder when you touch the gas when cruising?

all your other symptoms, including the passenger side click is going on in mine. my mechanic put the stethoscope on it and stated that it is definitely in the engine and not a belt or pulley.
I am not getting any check engine lights, even briefly. I have yet to put it on the scanner, but that is next.

from what I've researched, it is very likely a malfunctioning VLOM in the context of ActiveFuelManagement function (aka DisplacementOnDemand, AFM, DOD)

I have ordered the range device as a quick test. the pinging is likely a valve rocker, or lifter issue.

... and I will follow up as soon as I run the next set of tests.

Thanks for the input.

Please keep me posted on the results of your findings.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

Thanks for the input.

Please keep me posted on the results of your findings.

There is a slight shutter when accelerating from 600 RPM range but is only occasional and only felt under this condition. In traffic and slowing down to 5-10 mph and slow acceleration.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

Update: took the truck to a dealer to schedule an appointment. The service writer is a joke! I told him what i have told you and said "it's nothing major". I'm thinking what do you know you haven't even looked at the truck yet. I asked the service writer to talk to a drivabilty tech and pick his brain before committing to schedule the appointment that's 2-3 weeks out on getting the truck in and a 2-5 day check out time. The service writer said no they are all busy. My response was, can you see if one of them has time because i'm going to have to wait for two weeks. He didn't even call or go see if there was anyone available then repeated himself and gave me his card to schedule the service visit. So in short he was an ass and i'll take my business elsewhere. smh

 

[Big Mama]

As James @swathdiver mentions a lot. If you invest in a Tech2 you’ll remove the guesswork now and any future issues. It’s cheaper and smarter than the service writer, even when it’s in the box

 

[swathdiver]

This is the codes and description from the scanner at the local about parts store.
P015B bank one sensor o2
P219A fuel bank 1 imbalance
P219B fuel bank 2 imbalance

I appreciate input on a similar fix I’ll definitely check the cat and see if it’s plugged.

These codes are generic, they really don't tell you anything. Is it sensor performance or a bad heater or a short to open or short to ground and I've never heard of the latter two before. I'm no expert but did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

There is a slight shutter when accelerating from 600 RPM range but is only occasional and only felt under this condition. In traffic and slowing down to 5-10 mph and slow acceleration.

So the slight shudder only occasionally happens right at take off from a stop and when coming to a stop? That could be in the driveline, like the slip yoke or the torque converter. If I stop a certain way, usually in traffic and am coming to a stop, I can feel mine shift down to 1st like a manual. Been doing that since I bought it so it's considered normal behavior to me.

 

[2011SSVHOE]

Mechanics or Technicians as some like to be called and Service advisors or Service consultants like to be called, are all paid on commission. So you go in there and ask a shit ton of questions and want the tech to come talk to you first, yeah right, try doing that at a doctors office.

It's cheaper in the long run to buy a Tech2 . You can get one for Three hundred dollars or so. Do the math one trip to the dealer = 100.00 dollars three trips = 300.00 dollars. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or nothing but their time is money. That is also why I wont work on commission .

 

[OR VietVet]

I ran shops for over 25 years and was a tech for 10 years before that. Techs are paid to work and service managers/writers are paid to advise and act as a go between for the tech and the customer. I would never want my techs to talk to a customer because they sometimes are not "people persons" and they could throw a wild guess while talking that the customer latches on to and then when diagnosed the fix is more expensive because of some other problem. The service writer in this instance could have handled it better but he gets a paycheck and if he is told to not allow techs to talk to customers, then that is what he will do to keep his job. I have never once in my whole life heard of a customer willing to support a worker after they get fired for going against what they are told they can and cannot do at the job.

The service manager, like I was, should be at least rudimentally trained in vehicle systems. I am still an ASE Master Tech and I asked a lot of questions to really pin down what was happening and when it was happening. I always wanted to duplicate the problem so I could find the problem. An untrained writer can cause frustration for a customer because then the customer feels completely left out of the process. It can be that way sometimes. If you are not going back there then get some recommendation(s) from friends about other shops. I never felt that all dealer techs were the best out there. I never worked at a dealer and I know back then I was one of the best in the area but I think my OCD helped with that. Find a shop you trust and look for ASE certs and stick with them and learn as much as you can about your rig so you feel more involved in the processes.

By the way, if you drive up to a shop ad the bays are empty and the techs are playing frisbee and they can "get you right in" may be a sign of a bad shop to deal with. Typically, the best shops are busy busy.

 

[justme]

There is a slight shutter when accelerating from 600 RPM range but is only occasional and only felt under this condition. In traffic and slowing down to 5-10 mph and slow acceleration.

... I put the range tech device on the OBD2 port and ran a mess of errands. the shuddering stopped, the ping did not and the uneven feel of a cylinder misfire in the engine remained.

I will check the codes hopefully by monday but ...
from what I understand, it indicates that one or several ports in the VLOM are malfunctioning or clogged (they use a fine mesh screen filter in ~5 places) and there is likely a stuck intake valve lifter on cylinder 4 or 6 (passenger side AFM cylinders.)

bummer. if true it means a day of ripping into the engine. hopefully confirmed by some scanner codes soon.

 

[justme]

minor update... there was a cold snap in texas... it got all the way down to 40f overnight.

on the cold start the next morning, the engine ticking was gone, until it warmed up to operating temperature.

 

[State_Blue_Man]

All thanks for the input and I think I’ll invest in a tech 2 and run some tests and watch the read outs.

I do understand the service advisors position but it’s frustrating when I’m about to put down $100 to schedule an appointment and not be able to feel confident in the dealer and it’s technicians. So I’ll try again at another Chevy dealer and maybe get in sooner than 2 weeks.

 

[Eod1]

2 surefire ways to get in fast.
1 tell them you want on the rack 1st for the day. Show up 20 min before they open so they see you are waiting on them.
2 bring them donuts and coffee.
I usually get in within a week everytime and I'm out by 9am