14 bolt rear end swap?
- Thread starter Trey Hardy
- Start date
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PML covers are looks like $300 direct from maker, no chinesium clones of the... Specifically "H2/TBSS/SSR" variant we all need (link trucks, did we just find out the SSR is *also* a fancy Tahoe?)
This gets me thinking because, as rare as they are, the SSR is the most legit source for a t56 swap in these...
That iteration of the t56 is even stronger than the unit they ran in vipers, tho a viper t56 is your second choice if youre going that direction and cant find a special boomer dinosaur to chop up for fun-having purposes lol
[Edit] this is to say, basically every chinese finned diff cover on scamazon/fleabay is actually a PML design, i recognize them, i was apparently planning to buy parts that wouldn't fit for the teeny diff (for $50 it seemed like insurance, diff let go before tho lol)
Kinda this is to say... How long has PML been charging $300 for this design?
Obviously the actual cost to produce these is under $70 competitively
I feel like run of the mill car parts aught to be like prescription drugs lol
"When does the patent run out so somebody can offer this part in 'generic"
I really appreciate the engineering involved, but I feel like the "h2/TBSS/SSR” have been around a while...
How many units should we sell at a 300% markup (easily) before we've satisfied the "engineering investment" of paying steve the CAD opperator $16.50/hr for an afternoon in our basement? Lol?
I guess, as somebody who knows how engineering takes place, being ripped off by a rich guy middle man with an LLC or whatever is more obvious lol
I mean CAD opperator probably pays better now post *****omics... Well worse, but the dollar number is higher lol
You catch my drift
Most of the time there was not even an "engineer" in the same room as these "engineered parts"
3D scan to cad doodle and suddenly the parts are "engineered"
Sir your autistic 7yo did this on an acer laptop with pirated software because you told him it was "like Minecraft" GTFO
This gets me thinking because, as rare as they are, the SSR is the most legit source for a t56 swap in these...
That iteration of the t56 is even stronger than the unit they ran in vipers, tho a viper t56 is your second choice if youre going that direction and cant find a special boomer dinosaur to chop up for fun-having purposes lol
[Edit] this is to say, basically every chinese finned diff cover on scamazon/fleabay is actually a PML design, i recognize them, i was apparently planning to buy parts that wouldn't fit for the teeny diff (for $50 it seemed like insurance, diff let go before tho lol)
Kinda this is to say... How long has PML been charging $300 for this design?
Obviously the actual cost to produce these is under $70 competitively
I feel like run of the mill car parts aught to be like prescription drugs lol
"When does the patent run out so somebody can offer this part in 'generic"
I really appreciate the engineering involved, but I feel like the "h2/TBSS/SSR” have been around a while...
How many units should we sell at a 300% markup (easily) before we've satisfied the "engineering investment" of paying steve the CAD opperator $16.50/hr for an afternoon in our basement? Lol?
I guess, as somebody who knows how engineering takes place, being ripped off by a rich guy middle man with an LLC or whatever is more obvious lol
I mean CAD opperator probably pays better now post *****omics... Well worse, but the dollar number is higher lol
You catch my drift
Most of the time there was not even an "engineer" in the same room as these "engineered parts"
3D scan to cad doodle and suddenly the parts are "engineered"
Sir your autistic 7yo did this on an acer laptop with pirated software because you told him it was "like Minecraft" GTFO
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Thinking on this, I reckon I will take good pictures of all the parts on my parts shelf and dimension them like Im building a library for the GMT800... Surely thats of value to the community, Ive asked for the info and nobody ever has it... I think I might order 2500 lower arms I suspect they bolt into 1500 lower mounting points by the pictures and if theyre an inch longer, theres the alignment deal in the front where we are shortening 1500 upper arms...
I have a weird hunch that a 2500 lower arm with a 4bolt knuckle and a 1500 KSP upper with a 2500 balljoint in it gives us a 1500hd equivalent front end lol
People seem to buy parts and go "yay" and they either fit or they dont because parts swappers...
Engineer logic says measure everything and if you got a scanner 3d scan them into CAD till you have a CAD library for the whole truck, then you can share that around and anyone trying to draw up custom suspension can start from there...
Same as Im asking about a GM CD/DVD from the GMT800 era lol?
Zona *sells* cad files for a long travel, which isnt that nutty, I could start there and modify them for 4x4 clearance etc and then have a place like send-cut-send ship me my custom front arms in *stainless* lol
I have a weird hunch that a 2500 lower arm with a 4bolt knuckle and a 1500 KSP upper with a 2500 balljoint in it gives us a 1500hd equivalent front end lol
People seem to buy parts and go "yay" and they either fit or they dont because parts swappers...
Engineer logic says measure everything and if you got a scanner 3d scan them into CAD till you have a CAD library for the whole truck, then you can share that around and anyone trying to draw up custom suspension can start from there...
Same as Im asking about a GM CD/DVD from the GMT800 era lol?
Zona *sells* cad files for a long travel, which isnt that nutty, I could start there and modify them for 4x4 clearance etc and then have a place like send-cut-send ship me my custom front arms in *stainless* lol
Bingo!
The HD lower arms are the inch longer that the guy on expedition portal hacked out of his uppers...
And they give you further improved castor angle for lift and big tires...
The ksp HD upper balljoints will fit I believe and if not theres uppers that will take the kryptonite 2500 upper for the 1500... Theyre just 1" less improved balljoint angle versus the KSP...
So... To reiterate, the solution to 4bolt front end is simply afternarket 1500 3" lift upper arms with 2500 upper balljoints fitted (KSP/Kryptonite) 4bolt knuckles, HD lower arms and shocks, and then KSP/Kryptonite HD conversion tierod ends/tierod setup (they already run HD parts and tell you to hawg out your knuckles lol, I like my solution better)
I believe with this combination of parts we get an 8lug tahoe front end that will align to spec with factory alignment cams, no custom stuff needed. It both improves castor angles AND gives you a smidge more travel because longer parts...
Fwiw even 1500 guys with cranked keys would benefit from the castor/camber benefits I believe... Even if the arm is overkill it wouldnt be overkill outside of what could be dialed back via the alignment cams
Basically I think KSP uppers and HD lowers with cranked keys is a dollar store mid travel, looking at what Im getting here
Ai's crawl of forum posts agrees with my eyeball observations of everything from pictures basically
Do we who have held both parts in hand agree?
Ill have to sell lower control arms and ranchos and then buy hd lowers and ranchos... Plus bushings... Unless the non-hd bushings fit the hd lowers then Ill sell the lowers I have with the butyl bushings from the hd lowers in them?
I dont think they swap and theres not knock off hd lowers with poly bushings so Ill have to buy poly bushings separate because I have a thing about not intentionally bolting on parts that I know will rot out lol... Like if Im putting new its the longest life material I can put, within reason... [Within reason i say to myself so I dont reengineer everything from AR500, Tool steels, stainless, titanium, magnesium alloys etcetera... With an unlimited budget my ocd would *fix* lots of stuff only a materials scientist/engineer/gunsmith or something would really appreciate...I love to overdo things till some wires for a tiny 12v add on system are hundreds of dollars because I wanted to size oxygen free tinned copper like it was cca and then insisted on silicone insulation and over spec connectors... The real ones will relate to this struggle, "how much overbuilt is enough before its too much over built" lol]
I dont think they swap and theres not knock off hd lowers with poly bushings so Ill have to buy poly bushings separate because I have a thing about not intentionally bolting on parts that I know will rot out lol... Like if Im putting new its the longest life material I can put, within reason... [Within reason i say to myself so I dont reengineer everything from AR500, Tool steels, stainless, titanium, magnesium alloys etcetera... With an unlimited budget my ocd would *fix* lots of stuff only a materials scientist/engineer/gunsmith or something would really appreciate...I love to overdo things till some wires for a tiny 12v add on system are hundreds of dollars because I wanted to size oxygen free tinned copper like it was cca and then insisted on silicone insulation and over spec connectors... The real ones will relate to this struggle, "how much overbuilt is enough before its too much over built" lol]
Should I put this conversion thread in "performance" or "4x4 suspension" or whatever its called here?
Was my question when someone sarcastically showed the start topic button like I cant internet...
Like... Most of this project is front end parts mix matching mystery and the other curious part is the wonky brake rotors to get 13.5" 8lug rotors under 2021 4piston calipers...
I wish I could get feedback from LT Tolman how I do from Richard Holdener, Richard is great, I really have no engine mysteries lol...
I feel like LT knows the things I want to know... He knows the gmt400/800/900 oem+ stir like Im trying to do...
He also essentially built the engine I'm going for, with a... ~shittier-blower~... For an offroad application, I feel like he would dig what Im trying to do here...
Right now Im acquiring the wheels, was gonna get 5, 3 one place cheap +2 more, but paisas dont like maga so you cant buy things that are listed online they suddenly "arent in inventory" after you verified the night before via online chat and drive 2hrs away wasting $40 in fuel...
Cheap junkyard prices listed online are spanish speaker down with the brown sanctuary citizen buddy prices the parts dont exist when Americans show up speaking english like its their only language...
A constant nuisance in this vehicle community Ive noticed...
All the Facebook gmt800 groups are Abrego Garcia Fanclub DACA Dreamers...
Was my question when someone sarcastically showed the start topic button like I cant internet...
Like... Most of this project is front end parts mix matching mystery and the other curious part is the wonky brake rotors to get 13.5" 8lug rotors under 2021 4piston calipers...
I wish I could get feedback from LT Tolman how I do from Richard Holdener, Richard is great, I really have no engine mysteries lol...
I feel like LT knows the things I want to know... He knows the gmt400/800/900 oem+ stir like Im trying to do...
He also essentially built the engine I'm going for, with a... ~shittier-blower~... For an offroad application, I feel like he would dig what Im trying to do here...
Right now Im acquiring the wheels, was gonna get 5, 3 one place cheap +2 more, but paisas dont like maga so you cant buy things that are listed online they suddenly "arent in inventory" after you verified the night before via online chat and drive 2hrs away wasting $40 in fuel...
Cheap junkyard prices listed online are spanish speaker down with the brown sanctuary citizen buddy prices the parts dont exist when Americans show up speaking english like its their only language...
A constant nuisance in this vehicle community Ive noticed...
All the Facebook gmt800 groups are Abrego Garcia Fanclub DACA Dreamers...
Yes, I'd move it to its own thread as this thread is for the 14 bolt rear end
info... Not the lifted/ t56/ etc topic
swathdiver
Full Access Member
So what? What advantage does that give you on Imogene Pass, Baby Lion's Back or at the drag strip over the G80?
What's so great about 4.10 gears? Why can't anyone else have them even though 5.13 gears are available?
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
I’m 96.69% sure the e locker and 4.10s will swap into a 6lug 9.5sf just need to drill a small hole to run the wires through.
I’m not saying the e locker is the best thing ever but I do consider it superior to the G80 just based on predictability. My 9.5 G80 just does not lock on a regular basis (mines probably barely hanging on).
The e lockers are fantastic for being hard locked for creepy crawling rock stuff and driving on roads in open mode. But other than that I’d say trutrac or even a clutch style posi is better. I absolutely love the clutch style posi in the back of my Ranger for off-roading. It paired with the front locker is a great combo. A fairly well known YouTuber “Matt’s off-road recovery” also uses a locker up front and posi in back with all his hardcore offroad recovery rigs. It’s nice to not have to stop completely, press a button, hope it engages, and then do burnouts.
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
Got a link to the parking brake tool? I do dislike the plier method but didn’t realize they made a tool.
swathdiver
Full Access Member
It sure will. I like that the G80 acts as an open differential until you need it. I like that the G80 is built to save itself from twisting an axle in half. Yes, it takes a moment to kick in but one doesn't have to remember to engage it.
Your G80 probably broke off the tabs in the left clutch pack a long time ago, preventing it from engaging when the loads are high. Have to replace the left hand clutch plates and wave spring to get it back 100%.
If one is always operating under those conditions like Matt does, I wholeheartedly agree you on every point.
I use this one on mine:
40750 Parking Brake Cable Remover
Allows technician to remove parking brake cable by compressing the spring.
www.lislecorp.com
Dantheman1540
Full Access Member
This is the first I’ve ever seen about the tabs breaking off the clutch pack in a G80. Makes me want to go get one from a junk yard just to study, every one I’ve ever had on the bench was destroyed from abuse. One day I’ll trutrac my Tahoe and see if your diagnosis is correct!It sure will. I like that the G80 acts as an open differential until you need it. I like that the G80 is built to save itself from twisting an axle in half. Yes, it takes a moment to kick in but one doesn't have to remember to engage it.
Your G80 probably broke off the tabs in the left clutch pack a long time ago, preventing it from engaging when the loads are high. Have to replace the left hand clutch plates and wave spring to get it back 100%.
If one is always operating under those conditions like Matt does, I wholeheartedly agree you on every point.
I use this one on mine:
40750 Parking Brake Cable Remover
Allows technician to remove parking brake cable by compressing the spring.
I agree with you a properly working G80 in a factory application or even a mild application works well. I’ve made many of them in stock trucks do burnouts and had them propel me down dirt roads just fine. I much prefer them to many modern manufactures using open diffs and some sort of lame traction control to act as a posi. Mechanical is king and a lack of requiring activation is a huge bonus.
swathdiver
Full Access Member
They started doing it in 1986. A couple of years ago my girls were drag racing the trucks and left the line hard. Both trucks made a huge BANG and we thought they blew their axles out but continued on down the quarter mile. A year or so later, we pulled the cover to change the differential fluid and saw a tab laying in the bottom of the case. A short time after I was re-reading the shop manual and came across the description of what happened and how it works. I bought the special tool to take the carrier apart but it's not high on the list of things to do.
Here's what it says:
I was literally going to lock my 10b g80 in the locked position
An elocker will let me *disengage* it on the rare instance Im in a situation I care about tire scrub in a parkinglot?
Or are we saying the axle shafts in a damn 2500 rated 8lug axle cant take driving around on a welded diff?
Eventually I will put a true mechanical locker like a detroit locker in the back, and a helical in the front.
For what Im doing with the truck, sliding in and out of mixed traction conditions, its basically locking up at full tilt under WOT every turn...
We're not easing a boat up a boat ramp with a little slippage like it was intended... By the time the g80 locks up everything inside is screaming and it shock loads when it engages...
In ky situation theres a load against the drive shaft, the engine wont rev up in gear, but the wheels in the back freewheel... Im guessing I split the carrier and the spiders are now freewheeling inside? Broke ring gear maybe?
I havent had it open. When I take the axle out we will look inside. Right now Im happy it rolls around freely and nothing is locking up the wheels.
Axle arrives on the first. They didnt send the damn swaybar which... The tahoe bar appears to work, but its weaker.. ill have to get an h2 bar later. But at that point maybe I aughta just go right to adapting a remote disconnect swaybar.
Fwiw, in racing they have all mechanical lever operated adjustable rear swaybars, and the way they work lends itself to a disconnect as well.
Anyone seen anything like that for a truck before?
Every trophy truck had a locker in the back to my knowledge
Tons of drifters have a welded diff
I believe you think im going to be *engaging* the e-locker, when in fact I will be *disengaging* it about as often as most engage it
What would be *optimal*? A helical cut diff with an elocker...
A true track is a street diff IMHO.
And why would you want a locker in the front and posi in the back? Oh thats right... 4lo... Rock crawling. Mud dawg shit.
Desert running is a lot closer to rally driving. Youre building a 6klb rally...tank... In dakar they dont confuse terminology. Its the dakar rally whether you're in a range rover or a toyota carola...
Was very fine of the mods to even delete the post with the pictures
Warning about a vacation
A vacation from what? Me figuring out everything on my own and then sharing with the stock only boys who are apparently building sleepers for pinks or something because theyll use shit parts just to keep the stock wheels...
What this group really needs are sticky posts with part numbers for all this kind of stuff and then we wouldnt have to bother you assholes
Sorry when I saw dan here say "phuckton" in the nv4500 6.0 thread I thought it was community standards to circumvent the censorship filters for "language"
Phuck me tho I guess mine was better?
Or more likely its a popularity contest
Like anywhere you let chattle self govern, you get mob rule village idiots like the pitchforks and torches imbeciles from Frankenstein...
I mean I guess since nobody makes 26" spinners in 8lug, you COULD buy TWO junyard rear axles, take them apart, and have the same thing Im doing but with smaller wheelbearings and brake calipers and less overall ability for the axle to resist upward forces in through the tires?
Riddle me this, how is payload different than say, the ground approaching at whatever speed 6klb falls from the phucking sky?
Edit, what Im saying is velocity works like a mass multiplier... The 6klb truck is exceeding the payload of a 1500 wheelshub because the fine people in deerborn did not expect the chevy tahoe to serve as an aircraft that would require landing gear...
Trey Hardy
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I put a try trac and 4.56s In my Silverado and it made a hell of a difference. I’m waiting for my Tahoes to explode before I do her so I have a reason to justify it
Trey Hardy
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You seem like my kinda people buzz I cuss like a sailor too
